Posted on 03/16/2013 7:33:00 PM PDT by E. Pluribus Unum
The consecration of the Host happens at 51:47. The consecration of the Chalice happens at 52:32.
I cannot believe I am about to type these words.
The Pope DID NOT GENUFLECT after either consecration. He did a weird bow thing, but didn't feel the need to bend his knee to God Almighty, physically present in his hands upon the altar.
HE. DID. NOT. GENUFLECT.
This is absolutely stunning. And unprecedented.
Oh yeah, we're in deep, deep trouble.
But hey, all of you guys who are sending me emails whining about how I'm not nice, or something, go ahead and explain this one. He is perfectly physically sound. He FREELY CHOOSES to not reverence Our Lord in the Eucharist upon the altar.
Oh, and he also didn't genuflect to Our Lord in the Tabernacle when he went to Santa Maria Maggiore on Thursday morning, either. Um, how can a man truly love Our Lady if he doesn't first show even the slightest respect to her Son? Someone please explain that one to me.
Hey! I have an idea! Let's do a Pope watch. First one to see the Pope genuflect to Our Lord in the Blessed Sacrament, and not to a Superfun Rockband church pastor, wins! In the mean time, everyone should pray for Pope Francis and that he learns to show Our Lord the tiniest bit of respect and GENUFLECT to Him after He comes down onto the altar, and whenever he approaches or crosses the plane of a Tabernacle in which Our Lord is physically present. I think that would be a great prayer intention for one and all.
I never occurred to me that my desire to do penance in reparation to Our Lord for the sacrileges of the world would include the consecration rubrics of THE POPE.
Kyrie eleison. Christe eleison. Kyrie eleison.
“You might really benefit from attending RCIA. Here is more useful info..”
If they don’t teach the Bible there, I probably won’t have a good time. But I’m not sure how Isaiah plays into anything I’ve been debating on here.
She gives believers a bad name with her inanity.
Show me in the Bible where God commands specific genuflection from a 76 year old human. or anybody else.
What the heck lady. What’s wrong with you?
Having said that, I think the Pope has mobility issues and Ann's hysteria is way out of line.
You wrote:
“Where does it say it is the Roman tradition, that teaches that Paul was all wrong about salvation by grace, and that we needed the Roman Church, 400 to 500 years after the fact, to set us straight?”
Let me correct you since it would be wrong to allow you to continue in such errors:
1) The Catholic Church has always taught salvation by grace alone - just as St. Paul did.
2) The Catholic Church was founded by Christ. The Roman Church is merely the leading Church in it. There are 22 churches in the Catholic Church.
3) The Catholic Church was founded by Christ not 400 or 500 years after His ascension but when He was on earth with the Apostles.
Jesus set people free from religion but there will always be people that do not get it and do not want to be free, any one who is free has to take the blame for their own short comings but a slave can always blame some one else.
By what is happening in America and in the Churches it appears that most people are definitely in favor of slavery.
I was wondering about a physical reason... but to be clear, it does not affect my loyalty for Pope Francis whatsoever. His words and reverence are filled with the wisdom of the Holy Spirit.
Could you please post the source for the information about the pins in his knees?
Thank you. Meantime let us pray for Ann.
I am 52 and could not get up from one knee without something to push off.
Here’s to hope...that one of you wiser-than-me’s can explain what the angel meant when he told Mary she was blessed among women. Or for that matter, what Jesus meant when he said “Why do you call me good? Only God is good.”
I’ll be praying the rosary. :)
People like "Ann Barnhardt" do strain that effort. Close to the breaking point.....
I’m not sure I can “properly genuflect” and I am 54 y.o. with a bunch of arthritis and a bad back, let alone being 76 y.o.
But then again, I’m not Catholic. Just Christian.
Mary's righteousness and faith are without question. But she is not the path to Jesus or The Father according to Jesus own words.Try telling that to the millions who have been led by Mary's hand (and heart and tears) straight to her Son, Jesus.
See post #51 "This thread is posted in the Religion Forum. It is an "open" thread so posters may argue for or against dieties, religious authorities, etc. The main guideline on the RF is to "discuss the issues all you want, but do not make it personal."
And Matthew 5:22 "but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire."
Discuss the issues all you want, but do not make it personal.
I don't try to talk people out of what they want to believe. I stick with quoting scriptures in context (e.g. John 14:6) and let The Word and Holy Spirit do the work I could never accomplish - water and grow the seed of God's truth.
"Where in the Bible does it say that anyone should venerate "Our Lady" in order to respect her son?".
Then I got a response that completely ignored the question. Why? The answer is that the Bible does not require some outward sign of "veneration" of Mary in order to respect Jesus. I found it quite unscriptual to accuse the the Pope of disrespecting Mary AND THEREFORE Jesus because he didn’t genuflect after consecration.
Mary’s righteousness and faith are without question. But she is not the path to Jesus or The Father according to Jesus own words.
"So we restrict our honor of Mary to veneration"
Where in the Bible does it command, or even allow for veneration of a dead person as if they are still alive? That leads to praying to another other than The Father. That got king Saul into a lot of trouble trying to communicate with the prophet Samuel.
II Tim 3:16 "All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness". Mary and all others are in the Bible for "training in righteousness" - some very positive like Mary, others negative like Cain.
I stick with quoting scriptures...Can you imagine a Bible that covered "everything" important to the Christian faith? It would be ten miles high and then some. http://www.catholic.com/tracts/scripture-and-tradition
Excellent post.
“1) The Catholic Church has always taught salvation by grace alone - just as St. Paul did.”
“...the Second Vatican Council confirms: ‘The bishops, successors of the apostles, receive from the Lord . . . the mission of teaching all peoples, and of preaching the Gospel to every creature, so that all men may attain salvation through faith, Baptism and the observance of the Commandments,’” (CCC 2068).
”The specific precepts of the natural law, because their observance, demanded by the Creator, is necessary for salvation,” (CCC, par. 2010).
“If any one saith, that the justice [righteousness] received is not preserved and also increased before God through good works; but that the said works are merely the fruits and signs of Justification obtained, but not a cause of the increase thereof; let him be anathema.” (Council of Trent, Canons on Justification, Canon 24).
What saith the scripture?
Eph_2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
“The Catholic Church was founded by Christ not 400 or 500 years after His ascension but when He was on earth with the Apostles.”
The Rock upon which the church is built is the confession of Jesus Christ. All Christians are “stones,” and priests and saints of the true church, which is Christ’s body, with Christ as the chief cornerstone.
1Pe 2:5-6 Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ. (6) Wherefore also it is contained in the scripture, Behold, I lay in Sion a chief corner stone, elect, precious: and he that believeth on him shall not be confounded.
Peter never, in any of his epistles, calls himself the Rock upon which the church is built, or refers to himself as anything more than an Apostle of Jesus Christ, just as Paul and the others called themselves. In fact, Paul even rebuked Peter when he was in error. Not as an inferior having respect for a Pope, but as an equal.
Gal 2:11 But when Peter was come to Antioch, I withstood him to the face, because he was to be blamed.
This doctrine of Papal primacy, universal Bishop as the “head” of the church, is one that came later.
Ignatius, writing sometime before his death between 97 and 115AD, listed the highest tier of the church as the Bishop. He never mentions any higher tiers.
“Pope” Gregory the first, more than 400 years later, who asserted Peter was the First of the Apostles, nevertheless denied the title of the Universal Bishop (though the one who came right after him petitioned the Emperor that he should take the title), and asserted that the See of Peter was made up of three locations.
“But I confidently say, that whosoever calls himself universal bishop, or desires to be called so, in his pride is the forerunner of antichrist, because in his pride he prefers himself to the rest. And he is conducted to error with a similar pride; for as that wicked one wishes to appear a God above all men, so whosoever he is who alone desires to be called a bishop, extols himself above all other bishops.” — To Mauritius Augustus.
St. Peter’s Primacy descended to three Bishopricks, Alexandria, Antioch, and Rome.
“Whereas there were many apostles, yet for the principality itself, one only see of the apostles prevailed, in authority, which is of one, but in three places. For he elevated the see in which he condescended to rest, and to finish his present life. He decorated the see, to which he sent his disciple the evangelist, and he established the see, in which, although he intended to leave it, he sat for seven years. Since there fore the see is of one and is one, over which three bishops preside by divine authority, whatsoever good I hear of you, I ascribe to myself. And if you hear any good of me, number it among your merits, be- cause we are all one in him who says, that all should be one, as thou, O Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they may be one in us. — In the Eulogy’ to the Bishop of Alexandria
Theodoret references the same belief when he places the “throne of Peter” under the Bishop of Antioch:
“Dioscorus, however, refuses to abide by these decisions; he is turning the See of the blessed Mark upside down; and these things he does though he perfectly well knows that the Antiochene (of Antioch) metropolis possesses the throne of the great Peter, who was teacher of the blessed Mark, and first and coryphæus (head of the choir) of the chorus of the apostles.” Theodoret - Letter LXXXVI - To Flavianus, Bishop of Constantinople.
“Here’s to hope...that one of you wiser-than-me’s can explain what the angel meant when he told Mary she was blessed among women. Or for that matter, what Jesus meant when he said “Why do you call me good? Only God is good.””
Ummm... it means... blessed... art thou... among women?
It does not say “MORE BLESSED” so, therefore, “start praying to her, because she works with the Holy Spirit for your SALVATION.”
Christians who have never seen Christ are blessed:
Joh_20:29 Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.
Blessed are forgiven sinners:
Rom_4:7 Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.
Those who have faith are blessed with Abraham:
Gal_3:9 So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham.
Blessed are they who hear the word of God and obey it:
Luk_11:28 But he said, Yea rather, blessed are they that hear the word of God, and keep it.
Blessed are we when men hate and revile us:
Luk_6:22 Blessed are ye, when men shall hate you, and when they shall separate you from their company, and shall reproach you, and cast out your name as evil, for the Son of man’s sake.
I could go on...
“Or for that matter, what Jesus meant when he said “Why do you call me good? Only God is good.””
He meant that only God is good, and therefore, Mary cannot be holy, immaculate, and so on and so forth, because she isn’t God. Jesus IS God, of course.
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