I always felt the best advice is for us to mind the logs in our own eyes before wailing about the specks in others.
The goal is to bring others lovingly to Christ. Does tearing down other people accomplish this?
#1...it seems to me that to accuse somebody else -- as you have done -- of "tearing down other people" ... is itself "tearing down" somebody else.
If you "ALWAYS" consider it "the best advice...to mind the logs in our own eyes before wailing about the specks in others," did you actually do that before you made this post? (Did you in fact mind the logs in your own eyes?)
If "Minding the logs in our eyes" = NEVER critiquing anybody, then why in God's Name are you critiquing me?
Haven't you refuted yourself?
#2...Jesus comforted the afflicted; and afflicted the comfortable...especially the legalistic Pharisees.
I can point to no religious group more legalistic than the Mormons today.
Would you then castigate Jesus for the way He "lovingly" spoke to the Pharisees?
In John 8, Jesus said to their face that they were "children of the devil." Now are you accusing Jesus of failing to be "lovingly" there?
More Jesus on the legalists:
Matt. 15:9: But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
Matt. 16:12: ...guard against the yeast...against the TEACHING of the Pharisees and Sadducees.
Luke 11:52: ... you have taken away the key to knowledge.
John 8:44,47: You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father’s desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies…The reason you do not hear is that you do not belong to God.
Matthew 23:2-4: 2 “The teachers of the law and the Pharisees sit in Moses’ seat. 3 So you must be careful to do everything they tell you. But do not do what they do, for they do not practice what they preach. 4 They tie up heavy, cumbersome loads and put them on other people’s shoulders, but they themselves are not willing to lift a finger to move them.
Mark 7:6-8,13: He replied, “Isaiah was right when he prophesied about you hypocrites; as it is written: “‘These people honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me. 7 They worship me in vain; their teachings are merely human rules.’ 8 You have let go of the commands of God and are holding on to human traditions.” …13 Thus you nullify the word of God by your tradition that you have handed down. And you do many things like that.”
Matthew 23:2-7, 13-34 : 2 “The teachers of the law and the Pharisees sit in Moses’ seat. 3 So you must be careful to do everything they tell you. But do not do what they do, for they do not practice what they preach. 4 They tie up heavy, cumbersome loads and put them on other people’s shoulders, but they themselves are not willing to lift a finger to move them. 5 “Everything they do is done for people to see: They make their phylacteries wide and the tassels on their garments long; 6 they love the place of honor at banquets and the most important seats in the synagogues; 7 they love to be greeted with respect in the marketplaces and to be called ‘Rabbi’ by others.
13 “Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You shut the door of the kingdom of heaven in people’s faces. You yourselves do not enter, nor will you let those enter who are trying to.
15 “Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You travel over land and sea to win a single convert, and when you have succeeded, you make them twice as much a child of hell as you are.
16 “Woe to you, blind guides! You say, ‘If anyone swears by the temple, it means nothing; but anyone who swears by the gold of the temple is bound by that oath.’ 17 You blind fools! Which is greater: the gold, or the temple that makes the gold sacred? 18 You also say, ‘If anyone swears by the altar, it means nothing; but anyone who swears by the gift on the altar is bound by that oath.’ 19 You blind men! Which is greater: the gift, or the altar that makes the gift sacred? 20 Therefore, anyone who swears by the altar swears by it and by everything on it. 21 And anyone who swears by the temple swears by it and by the one who dwells in it. 22 And anyone who swears by heaven swears by God’s throne and by the one who sits on it.
23 “Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You give a tenth of your spices—mint, dill and cumin. But you have neglected the more important matters of the law—justice, mercy and faithfulness. You should have practiced the latter, without neglecting the former. 24 You blind guides! You strain out a gnat but swallow a camel.
25 “Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You clean the outside of the cup and dish, but inside they are full of greed and self-indulgence. 26 Blind Pharisee! First clean the inside of the cup and dish, and then the outside also will be clean.
27 “Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You are like whitewashed tombs, which look beautiful on the outside but on the inside are full of the bones of the dead and everything unclean. 28 In the same way, on the outside you appear to people as righteous but on the inside you are full of hypocrisy and wickedness.
29 “Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You build tombs for the prophets and decorate the graves of the righteous. 30 And you say, ‘If we had lived in the days of our ancestors, we would not have taken part with them in shedding the blood of the prophets.’ 31 So you testify against yourselves that you are the descendants of those who murdered the prophets. 32 Go ahead, then, and complete what your ancestors started!
33 “You snakes! You brood of vipers! How will you escape being condemned to hell? 34 Therefore I am sending you prophets and sages and teachers. Some of them you will kill and crucify; others you will flog in your synagogues and pursue from town to town.
Entire chapter of Matthew plus commentary:
(for your edification)
Matthew 7
(KJV)
1 Judge not, that ye be not judged.
2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.
3 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother’s eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?
4 Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye?
5 Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother’s eye.
6 Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you.
7 Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you:
8 For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened.
9 Or what man is there of you, whom if his son ask bread, will he give him a stone?
10 Or if he ask a fish, will he give him a serpent?
11 If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children, how much more shall your Father which is in heaven give good things to them that ask him?
12 Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets.
13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.
15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
24 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:
25 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock.
26 And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand:
27 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.
28 And it came to pass, when Jesus had ended these sayings, the people were astonished at his doctrine:
29 For he taught them as one having authority, and not as the scribes.
Commentary:
Matthew continues to arrange Jesus’ teaching in a relevant, pastoral way for his readers. Just as outward acts of righteousness can be misleading (6:1-18), we should avoid any external evaluations of individuals (7:1-5) and certainly should not trust all religious claims (7:15-23). Jesus’ promise concerning prayer (7:7-11) expands his earlier discussion of private prayer (6:5-15) and seeking the kingdom first (6:32-33). (NIV obscures the flow of thought by translating the first “seek” as run after; that Greek term can be stronger, but in this context it contrasts with the closely related term in the next verse.) Jesus’ admonition to self-examination (7:1-5), warning that few will enter God’s kingdom (vv. 13-14), observation that one’s behavior reveals one’s character (vv. 15-20) and caution that our lives and not just lips must acknowledge Christ (vv. 21-23) suitably climax in his final warning that only those who obey his teaching will endure the judgment (vv. 24-27).
I've posted before:
From that, Rule #2 fits here:
| THOU SHALT & THOU SHALT NOT RULES OF DISPARAGERS & DISRUPTORS [What Poster is Really Saying] | Repackaged Framing by DPs to Hide REAL message... | Basic problem, approach, and/or sin that disparaging posters need to address/reprent of... | Basic problem, approach, and/or sin that disparaging posters need to address/reprent of... | If disparaging posters were consistent, we would see them... |
| RULE #2: THOU SHALT FOLLOW MY PERFECT SPIRITUAL VISION & REMOVE THINE BEAMS & LOGS IN THINE OWN EYE | Tries to come across as Pseudo-'Biblical': Thou shalt take thy beam/log out from thine own eye. [The 'Thou Shalt Not' version of this is: "Thou shalt not judge."] | (a) Assumes, any "beams" in their own eyes have been removed, allowing them to have the perfect spiritual vision to castigate other posters. Having supposedly assessed the situation with this perfect spiritual vision, "obviously" the ones being disparaged need to join their "perfect vision club" so that all posters can be on the same "page"; (b) This is self-refuting: If a person cannot 'judge' someone else, then what business is it for a DP to come in and 'judge' another poster? | (c) Epic failure re" lack of Biblical understanding re: how we as Christians can righteously judge, having the "mind of Christ" (1 Cor. 2) -- and that this is simply called "discernment"...(d) This also becomes quite "rich" if the message is NOT to "judge" -- all as they engage in #3...judging others' inward motives, temperaments and dispositions! | Well, under (c) above -- if such discernment ("judgment") wasn't exercised, EVERYTHING in the world would be tolerated and even parents would have no basis for passing on moral direction to their children! Even commenting negatively on a couple living together as counsel for their own kids would be dismissed as "judgmental" |
“The goal is to bring others lovingly to Christ.”
Which Christ though? That’s kind of the point of the article, isn’t it? Do you think any old Jesus will do? Why not just believe in Jesus Ruiz, my local landscaper, if it’s just the name that counts?
You know, wiseone, this is a DAMNED good question!!!
“I always felt the best advice is for us to mind the logs in our own eyes before wailing about the specks in others.
The goal is to bring others lovingly to Christ. Does tearing down other people accomplish this?”
Who’s tearing down people? We’re tearing down false religions systems which tear people down to hell.
We aren’t tearing anyone down.
For years I always assumed LDS was just another denomination in The Body of Christ.
They aren’t and they are clear on that.
Just shining some light on a religion that is exclusive and condemns all other religions as “Whores of Babylon, Dark Religions, etc., etc, etc.
See my next post for a very illuminating demonstration of what they think they know and what you think and didn’t before.
Many Mormons often give the initial impression that Christian churches are viewed with a certain level of favouritism by the Mormon faith. Zealous young Mormon missionaries, when encountering potential proselytites into the Church, will often side step what Mormonism really thinks of other churches by saying something like: "there is truth in all religions". However, the truth is that Mormonism views other churches as false religions void of all authority. In fairness to individual Mormons, it must be said that some do not really realise the extent to which the Mormon Church disagrees with Christian denominations, or, at the very least, not really thought through the implications of what they do know. The quotes in this article are all from Mormon sources.
The first reference is very important as it is from the Book of Mormon itself:
"Behold there are save two churches only; the one is the Church of the Lamb of God [i.e.. the Mormon Church] and the other is the church of the devil [i.e.. the Christian Church]; wherefore whosoever belongeth not to the church of the lamb of God belongeth to that great church; which is the mother of abominations; and she is the whore of all the earth." (The Book of Mormon, 1 Nephi 14:10).
The following source is also very important as it is a key belief of the Mormon Church and is one of the first things that the Mormon missionaries will teach prospective converts. In the first vision, when Joseph Smith went out into the woods to pray to ask God which Christian denomination he should join, he explains that God allegedly commanded him:
"...I must join none of them [Christian Churches], for they were all wrong...that all their creeds were an abomination in His sight" (Joseph Smith History 1:19).
The popular Mormon book A Marvelous Work and a Wonder, by LeGrand Richards contains many derogatory remarks against the churches and their beliefs. Some of these are found in chapter 4 headed: "False Doctrines and Universal Apostasy". Excerpts from this chapter follow below:
"Erroneous Teachings of Christian Churches...One erroneous teaching of many Christian churches is: By faith alone we are saved. This false doctrine would relieve man of the responsibility of his acts..." (p. 24).
"Again, there is the erroneous doctrine of predestination...In his effort to destroy truth, Satan could hardly have hoped to deceive men more effectively and completely than to take from them, through the teaching of such doctrines, a consciousness of their own responsibilities." (p. 25).
"There is a also the false teaching of one heaven and one hell..." (p. 25).
In chapter 2 of the same book, the God of the Christian Church is mocked under the heading "The Strange Gods of Christendom". Page 13 likens the Christian God to the pagan 'gods' (plural!) that Moses and the Israelites met in the desert:
"These are but typical examples of the gods worshipped by Christian churches in the nineteenth century. Here are gods that Moses told the Israelites they would encounter as they scattered among the nations - gods "which neither see, not hear, not eat, or smell." (p. 13).
Other similar quotes from Mormon sources follow below:
"...orthodox Christian views of God are Pagan rather than Christian." (Mormon Doctrine of Deity by B.H. Roberts, p.116).
"...the God whom the 'Christians' worship is a being of their own creation..." (Apostle Charles W. Penrose, Journal of Discourses 23:243).
"The Christian world, so called, are heathens as to their knowledge of the salvation of God." (Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses 8:171).
"The Christian world, I discovered, was like the captain and crew of a vessel on the ocean without a compass, and tossed to and fro whithersoever the wind listed to blow them. When the light came to me, I saw that all the so-called Christian world was grovelling in darkness." (Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses 5:73).
"What! Are Christians ignorant? Yes, as ignorant of the things of God as the brute best." (John Taylor, Journal of Discourses 13:225).
"What does the Christian world know about God? Nothing...Why so far as the things of God are concerned, they are the veriest fools; they know neither God nor the things of God." (John Taylor, Journal of Discourses 13:225).
"Believers in the doctrines of modern Christendom will reap damnation to their souls (Bruce R. McConkie, Mormon Doctrine, p.177).
"...brother Joseph B. Nobles once told a Methodist priest, after hearing him describe his god, that the god they worshiped was the "Mormon's" Devil-a being without a body, whereas our God has a body, parts and passions." (Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses 5:331).
"The Roman Catholic, Greek, and Protestant church, is the great corrupt, ecclesiastical power, represented by great Babylon...." (Orson Pratt, Orson Pratt, Writings of an Apostle, "Divine Authenticity," no.6, p.84).
"...all the priests who adhere to the sectarian religions of the day with all their followers, without one exception, receive their portion with the devil and his angels." (The Elders Journal, Joseph Smith Jr., editor, vol.1, no.4, p.60).
"...all other churches are entirely destitute of all authority from God; and any person who receives baptism or the Lord's supper from their hands will highly offend God, for he looks upon them as the most corrupt people." (Orson Pratt, The Seer, p. 255).
"Both Catholics and Protestants are nothing less than the "whore of Babylon" whom the lord denounces by the mouth of John the Revelator as having corrupted all the earth by their fornication's and wickedness." (Orson Pratt, The Seer, p.255).
"Brother Taylor has just said that the religions of the day were hatched in hell. The eggs were laid in hell, hatched on its borders, and then kicked on to the earth." (Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses 6:176).
The Only True Church?
The next few quotes demonstrate how the Mormon Church sees itself as the "only true Church", with membership being essential to salvation. By implication, in the eyes of Mormonism, all other churches must therefore be false:
"We must come unto Christ by being baptized into his Church. Only in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints can we find all the truths that will help us return to our Father in Heaven. Only in the true Church of Christ can we find the authority to perform the necessary gospel ordinances." (The Restoration: Study Guide, p. 5).
"And also those to whom these commandments were given, might have power to lay the foudation of this church, and to bring it forth out of obscurity and out of darkness, the only true and living church upon the face of the whole earth..." (Doctrines and Covenants 1:30)
"There is no salvation outside The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints..." (Bruce McConkie, Mormon Doctrine, p. 670).
"The Lord provided that salvation should come through his gospel, functioning through his church...But is there such a church?...Is there such a church upon the earth? Until 1830 there was not. It had been lost through the falling away we have described in this pamphlet. In 1830 the Almighty restored his church to earth again." (Which Church is Right?, p. 17).
"This is the only true church ...This is not a church. This is the Church of Jesus Christ. There are churches of men all over the land and they have great cathedrals, synagogues, and other houses of worship running into the hundreds of millions of dollars. They are churches of men. They teach the doctrines of men, combined with the philosophies and ethics and other ideas and ideals that men have partly developed and partly found in sacred places and interpreted for themselves" (Spencer W. Kimball, Teachings of Spencer W. Kimball, p.421)
Attack on the Bible
Another way that the Mormon Churchs seeks to undermine the beliefs of Christianity is to attempt to take away its authority by spreading doubt about the Bible, the source of doctrine for the Church:
"The Bible of the Old World has come to us from the manuscripts of antiquity - manuscripts which passed through the hands of uninspired men who changed many parts to suit their own doctrinal ideas. Deletions were common, and, as it now stands, many plain and precious portions and many covenants of the Lord have been lost. As a consequence, those who rely upon it alone stumble and are confused..." (Bruce R. McConkie, "Come: Hear the Voice of the Lord," The Ensign, December 1985, p 55).
"What shall we say then, concerning the Bible's being a sufficient guide? Can we rely upon it in its present known corrupted state, as being a faithful record of God's word? We all know that but a few of the inspired writings have descended to our times,... What few have come down to our day have been mutilated, changed, and corrupted, in such a shameful manner that no two manuscripts agree....Add all this imperfection to the uncertainty of the translation, and who, in his right mind, could, for one moment , suppose the Bible in its present form to be a perfect guide? Who knows that even one verse of the whole Bible has escaped pollution, so as to convey the same sense now that it did in the original?" (Orson Pratt, Divine Authenticity of the Book of Mormon, p. 47).
"The Church [the LDS Church] reveres and respects the Bible, but recognises that it is not a complete nor entirely accurate record..." (Holy Bible, King James Version. Located at the back of the LDS KJV of the Bible, p. 624).
"the various versions of the Bible do not accurately record or perfectly preserve the words, thoughts, and interests of the original inspired authors." (B.R. McConkie, Mormon Doctrine, 2nd ed., p.383.).
"The gathering together of the few scattered manuscripts which compose what is now termed the Bible, was the work of uninspired man...Among the vast number of professedly inspired manuscripts, scattered through the world, man, poor, weak, ignorant man, assumed the authority to select a few, which, according to his frail judgment, he believed or conjectured were of God, but the balance not agreeing, perhaps, with his peculiar notions of divine inspiration, were rejected as spurious. The few, selected from the abundance, were finally arranged into one volume, divided into chapter and verse, and named the Bible." (Orson Pratt, Divine Authenticity of the Book of Mormon, p. 3).
"Through the Prophet Joseph Smith,...we learn that the Bible does not contain all that God revealed anciently, nor did it arrive in our day without inaccuracies." (Kent P. Jackson, Ensign, 2/95, p. 63).
"...the Book of Mormon remains secure, unchanged and unchangeable, ...But with the Bible it was not and is not so....it was once in the sole and exclusive care and custody of an abominable organization, founded by the devil himself, likened prophetically unto a great whore, whose great aim and purpose was to destroy the souls of men in the name of religion. In these hands it ceased to be the book it once was." (Bruce R. McConkie, The Joseph Smith Translation, pp. 12, 13).
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