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To: Owl558
I always felt the best advice is for us to mind the logs in our own eyes before wailing about the specks in others. The goal is to bring others lovingly to Christ. Does tearing down other people accomplish this?

#1...it seems to me that to accuse somebody else -- as you have done -- of "tearing down other people" ... is itself "tearing down" somebody else.

If you "ALWAYS" consider it "the best advice...to mind the logs in our own eyes before wailing about the specks in others," did you actually do that before you made this post? (Did you in fact mind the logs in your own eyes?)

If "Minding the logs in our eyes" = NEVER critiquing anybody, then why in God's Name are you critiquing me?

Haven't you refuted yourself?

#2...Jesus comforted the afflicted; and afflicted the comfortable...especially the legalistic Pharisees.

I can point to no religious group more legalistic than the Mormons today.

Would you then castigate Jesus for the way He "lovingly" spoke to the Pharisees?

In John 8, Jesus said to their face that they were "children of the devil." Now are you accusing Jesus of failing to be "lovingly" there?

More Jesus on the legalists:

Matt. 15:9: But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
Matt. 16:12: ...guard against the yeast...against the TEACHING of the Pharisees and Sadducees.
Luke 11:52: ... you have taken away the key to knowledge.
John 8:44,47: You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father’s desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies…The reason you do not hear is that you do not belong to God.
Matthew 23:2-4: 2 “The teachers of the law and the Pharisees sit in Moses’ seat. 3 So you must be careful to do everything they tell you. But do not do what they do, for they do not practice what they preach. 4 They tie up heavy, cumbersome loads and put them on other people’s shoulders, but they themselves are not willing to lift a finger to move them.

Mark 7:6-8,13: He replied, “Isaiah was right when he prophesied about you hypocrites; as it is written: “‘These people honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me. 7 They worship me in vain; their teachings are merely human rules.’ 8 You have let go of the commands of God and are holding on to human traditions.” …13 Thus you nullify the word of God by your tradition that you have handed down. And you do many things like that.”

Matthew 23:2-7, 13-34 : 2 “The teachers of the law and the Pharisees sit in Moses’ seat. 3 So you must be careful to do everything they tell you. But do not do what they do, for they do not practice what they preach. 4 They tie up heavy, cumbersome loads and put them on other people’s shoulders, but they themselves are not willing to lift a finger to move them. 5 “Everything they do is done for people to see: They make their phylacteries wide and the tassels on their garments long; 6 they love the place of honor at banquets and the most important seats in the synagogues; 7 they love to be greeted with respect in the marketplaces and to be called ‘Rabbi’ by others.
13 “Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You shut the door of the kingdom of heaven in people’s faces. You yourselves do not enter, nor will you let those enter who are trying to.
15 “Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You travel over land and sea to win a single convert, and when you have succeeded, you make them twice as much a child of hell as you are.
16 “Woe to you, blind guides! You say, ‘If anyone swears by the temple, it means nothing; but anyone who swears by the gold of the temple is bound by that oath.’ 17 You blind fools! Which is greater: the gold, or the temple that makes the gold sacred? 18 You also say, ‘If anyone swears by the altar, it means nothing; but anyone who swears by the gift on the altar is bound by that oath.’ 19 You blind men! Which is greater: the gift, or the altar that makes the gift sacred? 20 Therefore, anyone who swears by the altar swears by it and by everything on it. 21 And anyone who swears by the temple swears by it and by the one who dwells in it. 22 And anyone who swears by heaven swears by God’s throne and by the one who sits on it.

23 “Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You give a tenth of your spices—mint, dill and cumin. But you have neglected the more important matters of the law—justice, mercy and faithfulness. You should have practiced the latter, without neglecting the former. 24 You blind guides! You strain out a gnat but swallow a camel.

25 “Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You clean the outside of the cup and dish, but inside they are full of greed and self-indulgence. 26 Blind Pharisee! First clean the inside of the cup and dish, and then the outside also will be clean.

27 “Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You are like whitewashed tombs, which look beautiful on the outside but on the inside are full of the bones of the dead and everything unclean. 28 In the same way, on the outside you appear to people as righteous but on the inside you are full of hypocrisy and wickedness.

29 “Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You build tombs for the prophets and decorate the graves of the righteous. 30 And you say, ‘If we had lived in the days of our ancestors, we would not have taken part with them in shedding the blood of the prophets.’ 31 So you testify against yourselves that you are the descendants of those who murdered the prophets. 32 Go ahead, then, and complete what your ancestors started!

33 “You snakes! You brood of vipers! How will you escape being condemned to hell? 34 Therefore I am sending you prophets and sages and teachers. Some of them you will kill and crucify; others you will flog in your synagogues and pursue from town to town.

12 posted on 03/15/2013 10:13:20 AM PDT by Colofornian
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To: Colofornian

“If “Minding the logs in our eyes” = NEVER critiquing anybody, then why in God’s Name are you critiquing me?”

I didn’t critique, I made a comment about my approach to evangelizing and asked a question about your approach, which you never answered, by the way. I Also like how your non-answer precludes any responsibility for self-reflection on your part.

To answer your question, yes, I did consider the logs in my eyes before posting and pray daily for forgiveness. I also pray for the wisdom to know when I’m am doing the Lord’s will and when I am not. Upon seeing how you post the same things over and over, I felt compelled to respond.

I’m asking the question honestly, without anger. If you (including the cut-and-paste responders on the thread) react angrily to a simple question about spreading the Word, that is your issue - See my point about logs in your eyes.

How does tearing down a fellow Christians’belief in Jesus, bring them closer to the Lord?

I am really at a loss to see how your approach gives greater glory to God. However, I can see how your approach might give greater glory to yourselves (pride). That is why I ask. So please actually answer if you can without all the form letter cut and pastes of your compatriots.


32 posted on 03/15/2013 12:36:38 PM PDT by Owl558 ("Those who remember George Satayana are doomed to repeat him")
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