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To: marshmallow

In all seriousness...

IMO, I can understand why they want to remove it. The Catholic cross, IMO, is quite gross.

A cross on the wall is a religious symbol. A dead body on the wall is disturbing. And I wouldn’t want to have to stare at that every day either.

So if some there are not Catholic I can understand why they want it removed. They should compromise and switch it with just a regular cross.

That way, to the Catholic and Protestants it would be a religious symbol and to the non-believer it’s just a decoration and everyone’s happy.


5 posted on 01/17/2013 7:12:13 AM PST by MeOnTheBeach
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To: MeOnTheBeach
The cricifix helps us to unite our earthly sufferings with the sufferings of Christ. Nothing wrong with that at all.

Being Catholic: Sacred Things, Crucifixes and Crosses

6 posted on 01/17/2013 7:17:08 AM PST by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: MeOnTheBeach; Salvation
Is this gross?

this is not Spanish/Iberian style which is bloody

Note also that the article is not complete -- they want to remove a cross, even a basic, simple cross.

this guy Palikot is basically a demagogue like Obama -- one of his posters was "0% unemployment today" -- and has led movements against capitalism

8 posted on 01/18/2013 6:01:18 AM PST by Cronos (Middle English prest, priest, Old English pruost, Late Latin presbyter, Latin presbuteros)
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To: MeOnTheBeach; Salvation
Also "A dead body on the wall is disturbing. And I wouldn’t want to have to stare at that every day either." -- it should be disturbing. The idea is not to have just a "la la happy, happy" but also note the seriousness of the parliamentary session

It's also been key in recent debates striking down moves to liberalize abortion

9 posted on 01/18/2013 6:02:55 AM PST by Cronos (Middle English prest, priest, Old English pruost, Late Latin presbyter, Latin presbuteros)
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To: MeOnTheBeach; Salvation
The crucifixion cross is distinctly Catholic. In a religiously charged area it would be seen as branding the organization or building as "Catholic" and the non-Catholics would seriously object.

Sorry, MeontheBeach, but you are talking through your hat. I live here in Poland, in Warsaw, -- for the past two years, so I can tell you this from my experience -- there are few to no non-Catholic Christians in Poland

The next largest Christian group is the Orthodox and they too have the image of the dead Christ on the crucifix -- of course this is an icon, not a 3d image

The next largest non-Catholic Christian denomination are the Lutherans (4000 people in all of Poland) and they have crucifixes too like this one

Besides these Christian groups the next group are the Jehovah's Witnesses - yup, no Crucifixes there, but they are a few thousand at the most

So, to sum up -- the non-Catholic groups are Lutherans and Orthodox mainly, both of whom have crucifixes with a dead body of Christ on them

There is no enthusiasm for Pentecostalism or Baptists or other Evangelicals. The Calvinists suffer from bad history (members of that group basically betrayed the country in the 1600's to the Swedes unlike the Lutherans who remained true to the country).

The only people objecting to the cross are anti-Christians. These are not really atheists, more hedonists

I've only met one ex-atheist in Poland, and that guy is now a devout Catholic working full-time to prevent abortion "liberalization".

10 posted on 01/18/2013 6:15:18 AM PST by Cronos (Middle English prest, priest, Old English pruost, Late Latin presbyter, Latin presbuteros)
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To: MeOnTheBeach; Salvation
Also, to your point
So if some there are not Catholic I can understand why they want it removed. They should compromise and switch it with just a regular cross.
That way, to the Catholic and Protestants it would be a religious symbol and to the non-believer it’s just a decoration and everyone’s happy.

Poland is not like the US or the UK. There are next to no "Protestants" here -- it's just not known. People are Catholic or Eastern Catholic or Orthodox or some are Lutheran

I lived near the Lutheran Church above (its close to Plac Piłsudski on plac Małachoswkiego)

the interior of the Church, with a crucifix, Mass etc. is pretty darn similar to a Catholic one.

There is no Catholic - "Protestant" conflict like in the US -- the Lutherans are well respected and the Orthodox are too (as long as they are not pro-Russian!, which none of the present-day Polish Orthodox are -- to give you a brief reason, Poland with Lithuania once included Belarus and Western Ukraine -- together that is Ruthenia. These people were Orthodox. Until 1600s this didn't cause any problems. The Catholics were 60% of the population, but the Polish-Lithuanian commonwealth gave freedom of religion, so there was no Protestant-Catholic war like in Germany. Calvinists, Lutherans even Unitarians (Polish Brethren) could freely practise and preach. The counter-reformation was peaceful. There were a few converted back, but the Protestant movement was not successful largely as it was perceived as a German movement or Czech movement. But the religions lived pretty well together. Then in the 1500s, Moscow portrayed itself as the protector of the Orthodox and said that it had a divine mission to gather the Orthodox. This caused a problem because of the Ruthenians. Most didn't want to join Moscowy as they preferred the democracy of the P-L commonwealth. But Muscowy pressed on and got stronger. Then, in the 1600s the Swedes invaded and devastated the country. They were aided by the Calvinists, which forever condemned Calvinism as anti-national) and at the same time Muscowy invaded. Over the next 100 years Russia grabbed large parts of Poland and forcibly Russified many peoples.

For most Lutherans in Poland, they have crucifixes themsevles so the Cross is not a piece of shame for them

Finally, note that the compromise you ask for is with some small minority of anti-religious folks, not "Protestants". It's like a compromise to allow gay marriage

14 posted on 01/18/2013 7:13:05 AM PST by Cronos (Middle English prest, priest, Old English pruost, Late Latin presbyter, Latin presbuteros)
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