Posted on 01/06/2013 3:56:49 PM PST by NYer
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Credo in unum Deum, Patrem omnipotentem, factorem caeli et terrae, visibilium omnium et invisibilium. Et in unum Dominum Iesum Christum, Filium Dei unigenitum, et ex Patre natum ante omnia saecula. Deum de Deo, Lumen de Lumine, Deum verum de Deo vero, genitum non factum, consubstantialem Patri; per quem omnia facta sunt. Qui propter nos homines et propter nostram salutem descendit de caelis. Et incarnatus est de Spiritu Sancto ex Maria Virgine, et homo factus est. Crucifixus etiam pro nobis sub Pontio Pilato, passus et sepultus est, et resurrexit tertia die, secundum Scripturas, et ascendit in caelum, sedet ad dexteram Patris. Et iterum venturus est cum gloria, iudicare vivos et mortuos, cuius regni non erit finis. Et in Spiritum Sanctum, Dominum et vivificantem, qui ex Patre Filioque procedit. Qui cum Patre et Filio simul adoratur et conglorificatur: qui locutus est per prophetas. Et unam, sanctam, catholicam et apostolicam Ecclesiam. Confiteor unum baptisma in remissionem peccatorum. Et expecto resurrectionem mortuorum, et vitam venturi saeculi. Amen. |
We believe in one God, the Father, the Almighty, maker of heaven and earth, of all that is, seen and unseen. We believe in one Lord, Jesus Christ, We believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the giver of life, |
After Romans destroying Scripture wherever it was found for several hundred years, few if any original language works survived. What did survive that wasn't a Greek translation varied from one fragmentary copy to the next far more than the surviving Greek translations did.
By the time Christianity was legal and not being constantly persecuted existing portions in every language were studied as were the widely distributed Greek translations with every existing sort of copy being compared to make the best possible Latin translation.
I know it's tough for the crowd who like to post pictures of themselves throwing feces to understand, but when the originals didn't exist, no one could use originals that didn't exist.
Of course, anyone who even read a children's book of how we got the Bible would know this so it must be tangent time to avoid the main point which is that the Douay-Rheims translation of the Bible correctly translates the word "overseers" as "prelates".
Until Martin Luther threw out portions of the Old Testament and wanted to throw out Hebrews (which would have sidestepped this and other issues for him), James (which contains direct contradictions of Luther's doctrines), Jude (which warns against Luther's doctrines), and Revelation (which contains epistles from Christ Himself), everyone knew and accepted that perlates were leaders in the church who had been properly ordained by someone with a direct connection back to Christ through ordination traced directly back to Christ just like a legal chain of evidence can trace something back to the point of origin.
King James saw the obvious benefits of retaining Luther's new definition of "overseer" as something other than the narrow meaning it had always had since Christianity began. Telling the peasants they had to obey the king and nobility as they would obey Christ Himself was quite useful and being useful that's what it was altered to mean.
The fact is, though, overseers are those who have a direct ordination connection all the way back to Jesus Christ Himself who established the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church to provide ordained shepherds to guide and direct His sheep to the Truth and keep them from going astray.
Those who cannot accept the Latin and the Douay-Rheims can, naturally, continue to preach their belief that, at the moment, it's King Barry who they must obey as being responsible for their souls. That makes it a lot easier for them to be guilt free while they go along to get along with his mandate that everyone help pay to further his eugenics based infanticide machine.
The only other alternative to the "King Barry is in charge of my soul" pretense is either the verse means "obey your Self", or that the verse means what the Catholic Church teaches it means and has taught it means for two thousand years.
Redefinition of terms is a favorite tactic of the fascist left that wants to destroy Christianity in this country so it's always interesting to see who else relies heavily on that tactic.
Likewise, it's interesting to see people use the same sort of diversion tactics with absurd questions like, "why didn't they use originals that didn't exist?".
It's little wonder the "obey yourself" lie suits the anti-Catholic boiler room crew, though. They're the sort of folks who claim claim murdering your children is, "Christian Liberty" and so churches shouldn't bother denouncing the murder of infants with abortificiant contraceptives.
Cynical bear: Trying to carry over the Old Testament meaning of priest
The Bible: Exodus 19:6 and ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and a holy nation. These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel.
and 1 Peter 2:9 But you are a chosen people, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people belonging to God
Sorry, the Bible contradicts what you are saying
Pick up some historical perspective.
Cynical bear: Trying to carry over the Old Testament meaning of priest
The Bible: Exodus 19:6 and ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and a holy nation. These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel.
and 1 Peter 2:9 But you are a chosen people, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people belonging to God
Sorry, the Bible contradicts what you are saying
just as with the ancient Israelites, we are all a "nation of priests" and just as the ancient Israelites had ministerial priests set aside (Levites), so too do we have in the Church
The same structure -- with the difference that the High Priest is eternal Jesus Christ who is present at each Eucharist, each Mass
the Israelites abdicated their role as a nation of priests with their little foray into gold-calf making. -- sorry, that doesn't hold as we read in Exodus 16 how Aaron and Moses preach to the Israelites
Even in Exodus 19 with the pronouncement of you[a] will be for me a kingdom of priests and a holy nation. -- these come from God through Moses and in Exodus 19:22 you read And let the priests also, which come near to the Lord, sanctify themselves, lest the Lord break forth upon them.
This was before Moses went up into Mt. Sinai
during the Eucharist, Christ IS present as the High Priest
Christ is the High Priest and we are all His priestly nation -- whether lay priests or ministerial priests
The High Priest, Jesus Christ is the High Priest and the one-time Sacrifice -- note, this is a participation in the One-Time sacrifice
So, like all of us in orthodoxy, i'd rather follow Christ's teaching than yours
Its interesting that you highlight One Holy Catholic Church and include the capitalization! Its obvious to us who renounce the views of that organization that Catholics continually express belief in the Church rather than in Christ alone. Oh, they give lip service to Jesus but very quickly revert to their organization and venerated saints and Mary as their true source. Very telling.
Then show from scripture that New Testament church leadership was given a separate title of priest.
Discuss the issues all you want, but do not make it personal.
Do not carry over disputes from previous threads.
De facto usually beats de jure,
What the Greek corrupted translation says is irrelevent.
Its the Hebrew original gospel that counts, and that calls him a “throwing rock.”
Cute little tale, but it lacks truthful substance.
The early NT writings were definitely in Hebrew, and they were not all destroyed by the Roman thugs. Importantly, those original ms were translated into Galic and Gothic languages, and found their way to the northern reaches of the British isles in about 65 AD.
Those translations were at the basis of early Bibles in pre-english dialects, and did play into pre Geneva/KJV codices in the isles.
The complete gospels will come out, as the Lord has protected them in this manner from the ‘catholic’ corruption of the 4th and later centuries.
Uh, no. The headline is
Pope: Other denominations not true churchesTo make it perfectly clear I did NOT quote a headline and expect you to read it and be fulfilled.
Quoted about the Orthodox:
...the Church of Christ is present and operative also in these Churches, even though they lack full communion with the Catholic ChurchWell, that's a start. They would be seen as protesting towards the Catholic church, then huh? So they are Protestant.
Still too much extraneous dogma clogging up the minds of people so they have to struggle to get the simple message of salvation, being born again, and having a close PERSONAL relationship with Jesus Christ.
...check what the Pope or Cardinal actually said rather than a headline from a news article please
What you call a "headline" is the first words of the article, linked so you can read the whole thing.
I read it and find it quite accurate.
Ironic that you thought you were reading a headline, well now you can it's right at the top of this post.
Read the article if you wish also.
Just so there is no further misunderstanding, here is what I posted that you thought(?)[I don't know why] was a headline:
msnbc.com news services(Roll your cursor over the text and you will find a clickable link. On my computer the text becomes underlined and the cursor turns into a hand with the index finger extended)
LORENZAGO DI CADORE, Italy — Pope Benedict XVI has reasserted the universal primacy of the Roman Catholic Church, approving a document released Tuesday that says Orthodox churches were defective and that other Christian denominations were not true churches.
Post the facsimile of the manuscript for the gospel of Matthew in Hebrew (or any other language) ... and the lexicographical data that proves it predates p67.
I don't expect to hear back from you ...
Unless its the usual "quote" ... "from a quote" ...
Not answering your red herring of a question is not bobbing and weaving, but failing to play your game.
Try another tack.
Luke shows up in MY bible AFTER Matthew...
Fell for the false teaching of the RCC ey? Tsk, tsk, tsk.
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