Posted on 01/02/2013 10:59:47 AM PST by SeekAndFind
Following Pope Benedict XVI's repeated messages denouncing same-sex marriage, more Dutch Catholics are seeking ways to leave the Catholic Church. And one website is helping people to "de-baptize" themselves.
According to Reuters, the website ontdopen.nl ("de-baptize.nl") has gained significant traffic this month after the pope took the time in his Christmas speech to the Vatican bureaucracy to condemn gay marriage.
"They deny their nature and decide that it is not something previously given to them, but that they make it for themselves," he said. "The manipulation of nature, which we deplore today where our environment is concerned, now becomes man's fundamental choice where he himself is concerned."
The speech comes after the pope addressed gay marriage in his peace day message earlier this month. He said, "There is … a need to acknowledge and promote the natural structure of marriage as the union of a man and a woman in the face of attempts to make it juridically equivalent to radically different types of union.
"Such attempts actually harm and help to destabilize marriage, obscuring its specific nature and its indispensable role in society."
Early this year, the pontiff also said same-sex marriage threatens human dignity and the future of humanity itself.
Tom Roes set up the "de-baptism" website. He left the Catholic Church over the cover-up of sexual abuse in Catholic institutions. He told Reuters it's not possible to be "de-baptized," but said people can "unsubscribe or de-register themselves as Catholics" through his website. The website has a disclaimer stating that it is not responsible for any side effects of a life of sin such as diseases, natural disasters, or hell.
The Netherlands was the first country in the world to legalize same-sex marriage in 2001. In the liberal country, about 28 percent of the population is Catholic and 18 percent is Protestant while many are not religious.
Jeannine Marino, program specialist for evangelization & catechesis at the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops, told The Christian Post early this year that "de-baptism" is impossible "because we believe that baptism permanently seals the person to Christ and the Church."
"People can stop participating in the Church, but we believe the grace of the sacrament has marked them forever," Marino explained. "If the request to be 'de-baptized' is meant to have one's name removed from the baptismal records, this would not be allowed since the baptismal record is a record of historical facts."
amen
Read the above.
HMMMmmm...
It isn't a matter of being hard on struggling believers. It is a matter of being consistent on theological principles. One cannot preach against lying and then simply ignore lying within the church. One cannot preach a holiness and allow corruption to fester in their mist. People in the church should be aghast. This was the position of the Corinthians that Paul condemned in 1 Cor 5 calling the Corinthians "puffed up" when they should be mourning.
But.... 2Co 7:3 I speak not this to condemn you: for I have said before, that ye are in our hearts to die and live with you. 2Co 7:4 Great is my boldness of speech toward you, great is my glorying of you: I am filled with comfort, I am exceeding joyful in all our tribulation.
Thanks for the response.
Personally, I believe that Kennedy is this very instant being instructed by Satan as to his many errors in life. But that is for God to judge, not me.
No, no no Harley! You can’t start quoting scripture!
And whatever you do, don’t look to scripture where it compares circumcision to baptism. And uncircumcision, SKIP THAT PART! And definitely skip all that about human tradition, oh my! Too confusing without a inspired interpreter... (which none of the Catholics here are, unless that cheeky Freeper BennyXVI has finally unlurked.)
Rather turn to canon law, and the vast, unconfusing, unending and constantly revised, dust covered volumes of what the Roman Catholic Church has taught from the time of Peter the First (except when it didn’t... just ignore that part.)
/sarc off
Hey, I was reading some of Chrysostom's writings yesterday. I was very impress with what he had to say about scripture such as...
by means of the continual reading of the holy Scriptures which takes place here...
God will not have us listen to the words and sentences contained in the Scriptures carelessly, but with much attention.
And the Lord when He exhorts the Jews to “search the Scriptures,” the more urges us to the enquiry, for He would not thus have spoken if it were possible to comprehend them immediately at the first reading. No one would ever search for what is obvious and at hand, but for that which is wrapt in shadow, and which must be found after much enquiry; and so to arouse us to the search He calls them “hidden treasure.” ( Prov. ii. 4; Matt. xiii. 44.) These words are said to us that we may not apply ourselves to the words of the Scriptures carelessly or in a chance way, but with great exactness. For if any one listen to what is said in them without enquiring into the meaning, and receive all so as it is spoken, according to the letter, he will suppose many unseemly things of God, will admit of Him that He is a man, that He is made of brass, is wrathful, is furious, and many opinions yet worse than these.
For the words of the Scriptures are our spiritual weapons; but if we know not how to fit those weapons and to arm our scholars rightly, they keep indeed their proper power, but cannot help those who receive them. For let us suppose there to be a strong corselet, and helm, and shield, and spear; and let one take this armor and put the corselet upon his feet, the helmet over his eyes instead of on his head, let him not put the shield before his breast, but perversely tie it to his legs: will he be able to gain any advantage from the armor? will he not rather be harmed? It is plain to any one that he will. Yet not on account of the weakness of the weapons, but on account of the unskillfulness of the man who knows not how to use them well. So with the Scriptures, if we confound their order; they will even so retain their proper force, yet will do us no good.
Saint Chrysostom Homily on John
It doesn't. A baby cannot speak w/their mouth nor believe in their heart something they have no knowledge of.
"That if you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved". Romans 10:9
Actually, contrary to popular conception, there is nothing in Scripture that i know of that supports the idea that lost souls go to be with the devil at death, much less that they torment souls,
Instead, they are simply shown as tormented (Lk. 16:19-33) while they await the final judgment by the Lord Jesus, and in which the devil himself will be sentenced, (Mt. 25:31-46; Rv. 20:-10-15) and in which believers will be part of the jury. (1Cor. 6:2)
To God be the glory, and the message now is, "Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord; " (Acts 3:19)
Yes, the principle is the issue.
Six of one; half-a-dozen of the other. I was using it merely as a figure of speech. Although I seriously doubt any of the Kennedy boys made it to the pearly gates. Still, that's for God to determine, not me.
I seriously doubt that this fine upstanding individual is a registered member of any parish, so I seriously doubt that the Church counts him in any sort of census of members. For the first few years of my adult life, I probably wasn't 'counted' either ... even though I was a regular participant in the life of the Church.
I have no idea at all as to what this fine upstanding individual would tell a public opinion pollster, if asked his religious affiliation. If this FUI responded 'Catholic', the pollster would record such, regardless of the FUI's actual beliefs and practices. If the FUI claimed to worship the Great Purple Horned Toad ...
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