Mormon reply to thread "Mormons in Mourning: Post Election Depression"

FramReport Blog ^ | December 29, 2012 | Greg West

[greyfoxx39]

Mormons and "post-election depression"

Back on November 8th, Kathryn Skaggs wrote an article on her blog, "Mormons in Mourning: Post Election Depression." In the article she expresses the dismay at having the hopes that Romney might have been the fulfillment of several prophetic statements by early Church leaders regarding a time when the elders of Israel (LDS priesthood) would save the Constitution when it should hang by a thread. Sister Skaggs and other conservatives had their hopes dashed when Romney lost.

The reason I mention this nearly two-month old article is that it has surfaced on Free Republic, posted by anti-Mormon "Greyfoxx39." It begins with a selectively highlighted copy of the article (which probably violates Ms. Skagg's copyrights if there are any) and then includes this analysis from Greyfoxx39:

"This article illustrates the dirty campaigning that was done by Romney and his sycophants beginning in the 2008 electoral cycle when they were hoping to harm Governor Palin’s reputation to the point she wouldn’t be a viable candidate in the future. All to pave the way for Mitt. And in 2012 these tactics were used against all the other primary candidates in order again, to pave the way for Mitt.

"I don't believe Tagg Romney. I believe that Mitt not only wanted the presidency, but he believed he was foreordained by way of the mormon religion to become the "man on the White Horse". The mormon leaders had already planned ahead for a blitz campaign to convert others including Christians, because there is an attitude of "specialness" and belief that the sect in the future will rule the world fostered by the religion in its members.

"Instead, Mitt Romney has given this country four more disastrous years of Barack Obama."

After this introduction, the anti-Mormon "ping list" gets activated to invite Elsie, svcw, Zakeet, Tennessee Nana, aMorePerfectUnion, Godzilla, fishtank, metmom, and others to the thread. Once there, the anti-Mormon sharks begin their feeding frenzy. Nothing new, really. So why do I mention it. I want to discuss the perceptions of LDS conservatives on this prophecy vs. the views of LDS liberals. Yes, there are LDS liberals and moderates.

There are those of us who separate our politics and our religion. There are those of us who are libertarians and democrats as well as republicans. Not all American Mormons are conservative republicans. Some of us see the GOP as having been co-opted by Wall Street, the military-industrial complex, and corporatists who have linked arms with religious conservatives in an unholy alliance of Mammon and false religion.

If latter-day saints are going to be true to their principles, we have to accept and teach that an apostasy took place. The first message to this dispensation, brought to the world by God the Father and Jesus Christ in a personal appearance to the Prophet Joseph Smith was that none of the religions of the world were recognized as his. They had no authority. They taught the doctrines of men. Their professors were corrupt. Their creeds were an abomination. Unfortunately, that message can't be sugar-coated. It is the very reason there had to be a restoration. If we become too desirous for acceptance by mainstream denominations, we undercut our reason to exist at all as a faith.

Thus, the Republican party is no more righteous or moral than the Democrat party. The conservative Christians may decry the Democrats over abortion, gay marriage, etc., but their religious tenets are not endorsed by the God of Heaven who appeared to Joseph Smith. Both sides are utterly "telestial" in their approach. If the religious right were to exercise power unchecked by liberals, they would rule as ruthlessly as the Taliban did in Afghanistan. And among their targets would be latter-day saints. We have felt their heavy hand in places like Missouri and Nauvoo in our past.

Sister Skaggs and her fellow conservatives were sorely mistaken to hitch their hopes to a politician. They misunderstand the prophecies, having never studied them in detail. There are various iterations of these in our "folklore" and the confusion results from the doctrines of men being mingled with scripture. They omit parts of the accounts that don't jibe with their interpretations. For example, Orson Pratt, an early LDS apostle and associate of Joseph Smith said that, as best as he could remember, Joseph Smith said "if" the Constitution is to be saved, it would be by the elders of Israel. Brigham Young said that the saints would preserve the principles of the Constitution in Zion. Nowhere did they say that the United States survives as a political entity.

In fact, we know from the voice of the Lord in Section 89 that he will make a "full end of all nations" ultimately. Zion, the kingdom of God, will be the last one standing. All other political systems and nations will collapse, including the United States of America. Mitt Romney will not save it. Mormon elders will not save it. What will happen, according to all the prophecies, is that the freedoms we treasure will be held inviolate in Zion when it is established. All nations will flow unto it (Isaiah 2:2). Those who will not take up the sword against their neighbors in the tribulations of the last days will flee to it (Doctrine and Covenants 45:68). It will be protected by divine power, not by military might or by armed citizens (Doctrine and Covenants 45:67, 70).

Because of the work of secret combinations that have political parties both in the United States and abroad, the current system of nation-states is being collapsed. The Book of Mormon tells us that these secret conspirators seek to overthrow the freedom of all nations (Ether 8:25). Through them, Satan intends to establish a false Zion, a global political system that will oppose the true kingdom of God on earth. This is the "beast" of the book of Revelation. We know that the Lord will permit it to have dominion for a time, times, and half a time (42 months, 1260 days, ) (See Revelation 12 and 13, Daniel 12). It will speak against God and his kingdom. It will "wear out" the saints of the Most High (Daniel 7:25).

When this kingdom comes to power, Zion will have risen from the collapsed ruins of America. Think of the story of Joseph who was sold into Egypt by his brethren. Joseph was given power and authority, symbolized by his coat of many colors. His revelations told him that his brethren would show honor to him and that he had the right to rule. In the last days, God has gathered the tribe of Ephraim, Joseph's son through the missionary work since the Restoration. The descendants of Joseph have been given priesthood authority--the only legitimate authority on earth or in heaven.

Like Joseph's brethren, who envied him and sought his destruction, there have been those who have sought to destroy the tribe of Joseph who has been doing God's bidding since 1830. Nevertheless, a famine has been set upon the land. In Egypt, it was a literal famine. In our day, it is a famine for hearing the word of God (Amos 8:11). In the future, it will also be a literal famine because the Lord has revealed it (Doctrine and Covenants 29:16, 43:25, 87:6).

The time is now that those who desire the word of God must come to the people of Joseph to obtain their spiritual nourishment. The time will come in the future when they will come to us to have physical nourishment as well. In the midst of tribulation, Mormons will offer safety and refuge to the honest-in-heart who come in their need.

The wicked among both the churched and unchurched will revile against Zion and fight against it. Anti-Mormons do so now. They will continue to do so until their opposition ensures God's judgment upon them when they are fully ripe in their wickedness.

Mitt Romney, the GOP, the Democrats, and other groups are playing out their parts. Sister Skaggs should not be disappointed by Mitt's failed candidacy. It is a win-win for the Church. The Church benefited to some degree from the enhanced profile during the election. It weathered some opposition that strengthened us. Many people ended up with more favorable opinions. When it comes time for them to come to Zion, they will feel much more positively disposed to seek refuge with the saints. The other "win" for the Church comes because, without Romney in office, it doesn't have to bear the brunt of criticism that might come from failed policies or various conspiracy theories our enemies might invent. We got all the benefit and none of the downside.

There is no reason for latter-day saints to be depressed in Mitt's defeat. Our faith is in Christ. Hard times will come. Tribulations will make it seem like we will lose the battle. The Lord will let us be tried to our utmost, but he will deliver us. Zion will stand and be a source of deliverance to the righteous from all nations. It doesn't matter if Barack Obama is president or Mitt Romney. All of these prophecies will play out according to the Lord's omniscient foreknowledge. Our duty is to bear witness of Christ and his kingdom, not play politics with those of the telestial world. Babylon and its political parties isn't going to win in the end.

To the anti-Mormons on Free Republic: our foes will mock, but they will ultimately mourn. We will enjoy all the promised blessings if we remain faithful and build Zion with our time, means, service, and prayers. As the Lord has told us, "lift up your heads and be of good cheer."

Posted by G. West at

8:20 PM

[greyfoxx39]

LOL...these last few quotes may cause West to post ANOTHER rant! Be interesting to see what the mormon explanation/defense/coverup is for the German collaboration.

[x]

In other words, they were typical Germans, a few thousand Germans no better or worse than millions of other Germans ...

You should also point out that some Mormon literature referring to Jews as the "chosen people" was banned and some Mormon youths resisted and were imprisoned or executed. Source

[Tennessee Nana]

The world of the woman, when she is fortunate, is her family, her husband, her children, her home.
__________________________________________________

“For us the woman has always been the loyal companion of the man in work and life. People often tell me: You want to drive women out of the professions. No, I only want to make it possible for her to found her own family and to have children, for that is how she can best serve our people!.......Do not deceive yourselves! There are two separate arenas in the life of a nation: that of men and that of women. Nature has rightly ordained that men head the family and are burdened with the task of protecting their people, the community. The world of the woman, when she is fortunate, is her family, her husband, her children, her home.”

Sounds very Mormon eh ???

but it was said by Adolf Hitler...

[Elsie]

Send me a link on that!

JGI!!

mormons nazi germany

[Elsie]

Irony, the LDS were still on about Aryan purity long after Hitler was dead and gone. Until 1978 at least...

Don't blame the MORMONs; as it was GOD's fault!!!

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"You see some classes of the human family that are black, uncouth, uncomely, disagreeable and low in their habits, wild, and seemingly deprived of nearly all the blessings of the intelligence that is generally bestowed upon mankind.

The first man that committed the odious crime of killing one of his brethren will be cursed the longest of any one of the children of Adam. Cain slew his brother. Cain might have been killed, and that would have put a termination to that line of human beings.

This was not to be, and the Lord put a mark upon him, which is the flat nose and black skin. Trace mankind down to after the flood, and then another curse is pronounced upon the same race--that they should be the 'servant of servants', and they will be, until that curse is removed."

Brigham Young-President and second 'Prophet' of the Mormon Church, 1844-1877- Extract from Journal of Discourses.

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Here are two examples from their 'other testament', the Book of Mormon.

2 Nephi 5: 21 'And he had caused the cursing to come upon them, yea, even a sore cursing, because of their iniquity. For behold, they had hardened their hearts against him, that they had become like unto a flint; wherefore, as they were white, and exceedingly fair and delightsome, that they might not be enticing unto my people, the Lord God did cause a skin of blackness to come upon them.'

Alma 3: 6 'And the skins of the Lamanites were dark, according to the mark which was set upon their fathers, which was a curse upon them because of their transgression and their rebellion against their brethren, who consisted of Nephi, Jacob and Joseph, and Sam, who were just and holy men.'

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August 27, 1954 in an address at Brigham Young University (BYU), Mormon Elder, Mark E Peterson, in speaking to a convention of teachers of religion at the college level, said:

"The discussion on civil rights, especially over the last 20 years, has drawn some very sharp lines. It has blinded the thinking of some of our own people, I believe. They have allowed their political affiliations to color their thinking to some extent.I think I have read enough to give you an idea of what the Negro is after."

"He is not just seeking the opportunity of sitting down in a cafe where white people eat. He isn't just trying to ride on the same streetcar or the same Pullman car with white people. It isn't that he just desires to go to the same theater as the white people. From this, and other interviews I have read, it appears that the Negro seeks absorption with the white race. He will not be satisfied until he achieves it by intermarriage."

"That is his objective and we must face it. We must not allow our feelings to carry us away, nor must we feel so sorry for Negroes that we will open our arms and embrace them with everything we have. Remember the little statement that we used to say about sin, 'First we pity, then endure, then embrace'...."

(Rosa Parks would have probably told Petersen under which wheel of the bus he should go sit.)

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1967, (then) Mormon President Ezra Taft Benson said,

"The Communist program for revolution in America has been in progress for many years and is far advanced. First of all, we must not place the blame upon Negroes. They are merely the unfortunate group that has been selected by professional Communist agitators to be used as the primary source of cannon fodder."

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We are told that on June 8, 1978, it was 'revealed' to the then president, Spencer Kimball, that people of color could now gain entry into the priesthood.

According to the church, Kimball spent many long hours petitioning God, begging him to give worthy black people the priesthood. God finally relented.

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Sometime before the 'revelation' came to chief 'Prophet' Spencer Kimball in June 1978, General Authority, Bruce R McConkie had said:

"The Blacks are denied the Priesthood; under no circumstances can they hold this delegation of authority from the Almighty.

The Negroes are not equal with other races where the receipt of certain blessings are concerned, particularly the priesthood and the temple blessings that flow there from, but this inequality is not of man's origin, it is the Lord's doings."

(Mormon Doctrine, pp. 526-527).

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When Mormon 'Apostle' Mark E Petersen spoke on 'Race Problems- As they affect the Church' at the BYU campus in 1954, the following was also said:

"...if the negro accepts the gospel with real, sincere faith, and is really converted, to give him the blessings of baptism and the gift of the Holy Ghost, he can and will enter the celestial kingdom. He will go there as a servant, but he will get celestial glory."

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When Mormon 'Prophet' and second President of the Church, Brigham Young, spoke in 1863 the following was also said:

"Shall I tell you the law of God in regard to the African race? If the white man who belongs to the chosen seed mixes his blood with the seed of Cain, the penalty, under the law of God is death on the spot. This will always be so."

(Journal of Discourses, Vo. 10, p. 110)

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Yeah; Native Americans are althroughout the Book of MORMON; too.

 

“I saw a striking contrast in the progress of the Indian people today ... they are fast becoming a white and delightsome people.... For years they have been growing delightsome, and they are now becoming white and delightsome, as they were promised.... The children in the home placement program in Utah are often lighter than their brothers and sisters in the hogans on the reservation.

At one meeting a father and mother and their sixteen-year-old daughter were present, the little member girl-sixteen-sitting between the dark father and mother, and it was evident she was several shades lighter than her parents—on the same reservation, in the same hogan, subject to the same sun and wind and weather.... These young members of the Church are changing to whiteness and to delightsomeness.

One white elder jokingly said that he and his companion were donating blood regularly to the hospital in the hope that the process might be accelerated.

 

(Improvement Era, December 1960, pp.922-23). (p. 209)

 

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[Elsie]

Be interesting to see what the mormon explanation/defense/coverup is for the German collaboration.

We ALL know from experience: silence...

[Elsie]

Go bake muffins!

[Tennessee Nana]

Happy Birthday for yesterday dear

[Tennessee Nana]

LOL

[greyfoxx39]

Your source is to "Dialogue-A Journal of Mormon Thought"...which isn't evident in the link you posted.

However, from the same source I find the quandry described by Fawn Brody regarding the evidence that the mormons were ignoring the plight of the Jews.

************************************************

"Fawn Brodie, therefore, had more than a passing interest in pre-war Nazi

Germany. The Church's position there had become increasingly precarious

as Nazi officials placed more and more restrictions on Church activities. Alfred

C. Rees, mission president for eastern Germany, attempted to ease the situation

by currying favor with Nazi officials. In early 1939 he wrote an article

describing those features within Mormonism he thought would appeal to Germans.

His article, "In the Land of the Mormons," was published in the Nazi

Party's propaganda sheet, the Volkischer Beobachter. Brodie, made aware of

this controversial development by family members close to the scene, was further

distressed to learn that "Rees has encouraged all of the missionaries to

write [similar] articles for the local [German] newspapers." In a 14 June 1939

letter to Dean Brimhall, Fawn commented on the semi-official Church position

vis-a-vis the general German situation: "If the Deseret News is careful not to

offend Germany, and I gather from your statements that it is falling over backwards

on the attempt, it is my guess that first of all the Church is afraid of

complete banishment."

Brodie continued in this same letter to comment on the critical situation

of German-Jewish refugees as Nazi persecution intensified during the late

1930s. The Church, she complained, did not confront this issue editorially in

the Deseret News and thus appeared oblivious to its moral dimensions. Although

Brodie was also sensitive to the difficulty of the Mormon position,

noting that "the Church [in Germany] can ill afford persecution at this

moment," she also attributed Latter-day Saint evasiveness to "the latent anti-

Semitism which exists in every area as provincial as Utah and which is not

dispelled by the Church doctrine that we are all of the 'blood of Israel.' " She

ended the letter with a touch of ironic sarcasm: "I can just hear the good

brethren . . . at home saying — 'of course the persecution of the Jews is terrible

but God moves in mysterious ways, his wonders to perform.' "

On this issue Brodie once again reflected her own ambivalence. On the

one hand, she was very aware of the Church's quandary in Nazi Germany —

difficulties that directly involved her immediate family. But, at the same time,

she was indignant at what she perceived as Latter-day Saint indifference to the

German persecution of the Jews."

Link

[Scoutmaster]

You should also point out that some Mormon literature referring to Jews as the "chosen people" was banned and some Mormon youths resisted and were imprisoned or executed.

True, LDS Boy Scout Helmuth Hübener was beheaded by the Nazis for treason (distributing homemade anti-fascist pamphlets). The kid was brave and a hero.

Also true, the LDS excommunicated him for committing treason against the Nazis.

[ravenwolf]

Our Mormon neighbor didn’t put up any Christmas decorations this year

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They did,nt? i guess i am not the only one who does not put up pagan lights.

[greyfoxx39]

Also true, the LDS excommunicated him for committing treason against the Nazis.

Now, I bet THAT took some intestinal fortitude. /sarc

[ejonesie22]

Nice...

[greyfoxx39]

One has to wonder in considering the actions of the mormons in Nazi Germany if that was the beginning of the "baptism of the dead" for the Holocaust victims.

It sounds almost Barackian..."never let a crisis go to waste".

The wrongful posthumous baptism of Jewish dead continues, despite repeated denials by the disingenuous Mormon leadership

[Scoutmaster]

After the end of WWII, Hübener was posthumously reinstated.

[greyfoxx39]

After the end of WWII, Hübener was posthumously reinstated.

Proxy baptism?

[Little Bill]

Hey Nana, Eight of My Ancestors received Revolutionary War pensions for fighting for FREEDOM, yours?

[ejonesie22]

How sweet if them... Once the knew who won of course..

[Tennessee Nana]

10 of my ancestors had their houses burnt down and their land stolen by the rebels

one ancestor murdered

yours ???