Posted on 12/10/2012 9:27:44 AM PST by Laissez-faire capitalist
...gambling, rock music, etc, etc?
Now, this thread isn't about debating what is sin and what isn't or what constitutes sin or doesn't. Please don't hijack this thread over the issues that I listed. Thank you.
This thread is about our changing culture - and let's face it, more and more denominations/churches are ever so slowly moving towards tolerance and/or acceptance of homosexual marriage. The rest in the list (following gay marriage) that I included in the thread were put there to show that if you look back far enough at various denomination's church bylaws some churches were once against this or that - but no longer are. Just like they once were adamantly against homosexuality/homosexual marriage, but are slowly drifting away from that.
Which makes me wonder and posit the following question:
Those (the various ministers who were the crafters of church bylaws and voted on them) believed that they were following God's will in the crafting of their church/denomination bylaws. And they believed that they had it right (or scripturally correct) be it in the early 1800's, early 1850's, late 1800's, early 1900's mid 1900's, etc.
So, if a church/denomination "took a stand" against drinking and smoking or gambling, etc, etc in the 1800's in its bylaws but now has since changed the bylaws on these, did those back in the 1800's really hear from God when they crafted those bylaws? If not, then how can those today who change the church bylaws on these things be certain that they aren't making a mistake by changing the church/denomination's bylaws as they are just as fallible as those who lived back then?
Which leads to churches and the slow change in many denominations taking place over gay marriage....
Where are we as a society headed? What bylaw(s) is/are absolutely correct and never need to be changed?
“ALL - what are you talking about, apparently you have never been to a Bible based Spirit filled church.”
How much are you willing to wager on that?
Ravenwolf mentioned getting "buzzed," which is a nice way to say drunk.
Drunkenness is most certainly a sin, whether you do it once a year, or daily. It seems to be in the same list as fornication:
9Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,10Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
1 Corinthians 6:9-10
So, again, is it alright if I fornicate once every year or two?
No. The Catholic Church does not the will of God.
Catholics then are going to hell?
I will repeat what I wrote: fornication is prohibited, having a drink is not.
No you can’t fornicate, yes you can have a drink.
The Catholic Church does not uphold that homosexuality is sinful; homosexuality is disordered. Homosexual behavior is sinful.
“The Catholic Church does not uphold that homosexuality is sinful; homosexuality is disordered. Homosexual behavior is sinful.”
Thanks for the correction. :)
Ravenwolf mentioned getting “buzzed,” which is a nice way to say drunk.
The vast majority of those who claim to have been to such a church or to be members of such a church are wrong and themselves haven't ever been to any such church.
Any church that doesn't clearly teach that the premeditated murder of infants with contraceptive drugs is a sin isn't Bible based or Spirit filled. Unless, of course, there are spirits other than the Holy Spirit helping their church along in the wrong direction.
Likewise, those churches that as a matter of course call Jesus Christ Himself a liar by not accepting the fact that Christ is truely present in the Eucharist aren't Bible based or Spirit filled.
Wouldn’t have been easier to say if you aren’t Catholic you are going to hell?
I emphatically restate that attitudes like yours are part of the problem, not the solution. Leave your personal opinions outside the church door and stick to scripture.
• African Methodist Episcopal Church
• The African Methodist Episcopal Zion Church
• Alliance of Baptists
• American Baptist Churches in the USA
• Diocese of the Armenian Church of America
• Christian Church (Disciples of Christ)
• Christian Methodist Episcopal Church
• Church of the Brethren
• The Coptic Orthodox Church in North America
• The Episcopal Church
• Evangelical Lutheran Church in America
• Friends United Meeting
• Greek Orthodox Archdiocese of America
• Hungarian Reformed Church in America
• International Council of Community Churches
• Korean Presbyterian Church in America
• Malankara Orthodox Syrian Church
• Mar Thoma Church
• Moravian Church in America Northern Province and Southern Province
• National Baptist Convention of America
• National Baptist Convention, U.S.A., Inc.
• National Missionary Baptist Convention of America
• Orthodox Church in America
• Patriarchal Parishes of the Russian Orthodox Church in the USA
• Philadelphia Yearly Meeting of the Religious Society of Friends
• Polish National Catholic Church of America
• Presbyterian Church (U.S.A.)
• Progressive National Baptist Convention, Inc.
• Reformed Church in America
• Serbian Orthodox Church in the U.S.A. and Canada
• The Swedenborgian Church
• Syrian Orthodox Church of Antioch
• Ukrainian Orthodox Church of America
• United Church of Christ
• The United Methodist Church •
Your attitude about it seems to be a much bigger sin than the act of getting drunk.
As is often the case, what someone thinks is clever snark is just proof that they don't know what they're talking about. There are churches that preach the truth about contraception and about the real presence in the Eucharist. True, there aren't many left, but thirty years ago a majority of Lutheran churches believed and preached both things.
There were a few other non-Catholic churches as well but I'm not familiar with how they've changed so I figure they've gone down the toilet along with the majority of the denomination they're nominally a part of.
So once again we see that those who want to slander Catholics do so whether their snarky little remarks are true or not. Just as long as the poster feels like their comment may be cute enough to adorn the pages of a little comic book they post their lies and then claim that telling lies is a very Christian thing to do.
eye roll
Great tagline.
As far as I know, heresy doesn't affect a valid baptism, as long as the person baptising (or getting baptised) doesn't have a heresy about baptism per se.
As far as I know, the Catholic Church never proclaimed heretics' baptisms to be invalid, with the exception of such groups as the Mormons, who do not believe in the Trinity (and therefore their baptism itself is not in the Trinity as we know it.) In other words, most Christian heretics have valid baptisms. But their errors are still errors.
For example: the followers of the Arian heresy (4th century). Tens of thousands of them, heretical as heck, but their baptisms per se were never in question.
If I am wrong about this, please, knowledgeable people jump in and correct me. :o)
So you don't have a contradiction here. You're making a category mistake.
"Did the RCC hear from God during the Inquisition(s)? If not, are they hearing from God now?
Again as far as I know, Church Inquisitions (like the Roman Inquisition) have authority only over those who are ecclesiastical subjects of the Catholic Church, and had power to impose only ecclesiastical penalities, e.g. excommunication. This is in contrast to State inquisitions (like the Spanish Inquisition), which impose criminal penalties (like fines, imprisonment, capital punishment.)
If somebody isn't an ecclesiastical subject of the Church (such as, say, a Hindu) they are not under the jurisdiction of a church inquisition. You, for instance: I assume you are not a Catholic, and therefore the Inquisition ain't comin' after you. So no need to worry about being excommunicated, no matter how heretical you are :o)
Again, if I am mistaken, somebody correct me please.
That’s cause ya’ll wership statures.
You phrase that in kind of a tricky way, I have personally know many Christians who drink alcohol and who had no interest in getting drunk, but I wasn't arguing with them about the bible and alcohol.
Many, many people, all over the world, really do believe that a glass of wine, or a beer or two each evening are conducive to good health, both mentally and physically.
The preacher was inveighing against foul language, gambling and drunkenness, and all the Amen Sisters in the church were nodding and smiling in approval. Then he expanded into condemning factions, vanity and gossip, and started getting some frowns from the ladies.
One of them commented afterwards, "Preacher, you were good at preachin', until you got into meddlin' --
:o)
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