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Who is the Harlot AND Her Daughters?
12/3/2012 | self

Posted on 12/03/2012 2:15:56 AM PST by DouglasKC

Question: In the passages below a harlot symbolizes something. The title on her head is "MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND OF THE ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH." One of the titles is "the mother of harlots". This suggests that there are other harlots that have sprung from this harlot.

This is more curiosity then anything else...but what are opinions on what this represents?

Rev 17:1 Then one of the seven angels who had the seven bowls came and talked with me, saying to me, "Come, I will show you the judgment of the great harlot who sits on many waters,
Rev 17:2 with whom the kings of the earth committed fornication, and the inhabitants of the earth were made drunk with the wine of her fornication."
Rev 17:3 So he carried me away in the Spirit into the wilderness. And I saw a woman sitting on a scarlet beast which was full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns.
Rev 17:4 The woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet, and adorned with gold and precious stones and pearls, having in her hand a golden cup full of abominations and the filthiness of her fornication.
Rev 17:5 And on her forehead a name was written: MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND OF THE ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.
Rev 17:6 I saw the woman, drunk with the blood of the saints and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus. And when I saw her, I marveled with great amazement.
Rev 17:7 But the angel said to me, "Why did you marvel? I will tell you the mystery of the woman and of the beast that carries her, which has the seven heads and the ten horns.
Rev 17:8 The beast that you saw was, and is not, and will ascend out of the bottomless pit and go to perdition. And those who dwell on the earth will marvel, whose names are not written in the Book of Life from the foundation of the world, when they see the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.
Rev 17:9 "Here is the mind which has wisdom: The seven heads are seven mountains on which the woman sits.
Rev 17:10 There are also seven kings. Five have fallen, one is, and the other has not yet come. And when he comes, he must continue a short time.
Rev 17:11 The beast that was, and is not, is himself also the eighth, and is of the seven, and is going to perdition.
Rev 17:12 "The ten horns which you saw are ten kings who have received no kingdom as yet, but they receive authority for one hour as kings with the beast.
Rev 17:13 These are of one mind, and they will give their power and authority to the beast.
Rev 17:14 These will make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb will overcome them, for He is Lord of lords and King of kings; and those who are with Him are called, chosen, and faithful."


TOPICS: Ecumenism; General Discusssion; History
KEYWORDS: 666; christian; harlot; herbertwarmstrong; revelation; worldwidechurchofgod
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To: Yosemitest
The "Harlot" was also used to refer to Jerusalem and to the ancient state of Davidic Israel (not to modern day Israel of course).

The harlot was brought down -- Jerusalem was destroyed in 70 AD...

241 posted on 12/05/2012 12:22:55 AM PST by Cronos (**Marriage is about commitment, cohabitation is about convenience.**)
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To: sasportas

The Harlot was the city of Jerusalem, Nero was the beast 666. The events happened. John of Patmos was referring to a renewal of the Church free from just being a sect of Judaism and free from Romaoi persecution


242 posted on 12/05/2012 12:24:41 AM PST by Cronos (**Marriage is about commitment, cohabitation is about convenience.**)
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To: BlueDragon
The John Smith part is a logical outcome

look, B-I is the perfect recipe for the British to give their Empire a religious means so thereby infusing its proponents with more fervor. It died out to some extent after the Revolution, and the East India Company didn't have this as they were purely about trade -- many actually "went native" and most had a respect for South-Asian culture

It only regained ground around 1848 with the 1848 revolutions in Europe and the rise of nationalism and was taken up in the US

John Smith was a canny inventor -- the 1800s had the rise of nationalism and American exceptionalism along with the discoveries in Egypt (and yet no deciphering of hieroglyphs yet) and ideas on Amerindians

he merged all of this along with the revitalization of the Baptists with the Baptist philosophy of Great Apostasy and extended that further back

243 posted on 12/05/2012 12:35:45 AM PST by Cronos (**Marriage is about commitment, cohabitation is about convenience.**)
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To: Cronos
I'm not sure I understand your question correctly.
If you're asking me then my answer is "Yes. I do."

If your're asking me I would ask you, "What difference does it make?"
Either way, Americans are God's people, IF they OBEY our Heavenly Father.

Both the booklets I referenced cover the subject well. But don't just take the booklet's word for it.
Go to the trouble to verify the sources given in each of the booklets.
It's not that hard to do.
Usually you can find a hard copy of the source referenced in a library or on the Internet, so just go look for it.
Then after you do it, you become more confident in what you've learned.
Me ... I've bought several hard cover books off of E-Bay just for reference material. But I'm older, and I like real books.
Plus, you have several witnesses giving you the same information.

Look, this is between you and God. So you should learn it that way.
My opinion is of little value. It's YOUR confidence in what you've learned that's important.
You know when you've reached true information, because it'll leave you satisfied.
It may make you uncomfortable for a while, and it may not agree with what most "churches" have taught you, but you'll know in your mind.
Because it'll give you rest.
244 posted on 12/05/2012 1:08:39 AM PST by Yosemitest (It's Simple ! Fight, ... or Die !)
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To: Yosemitest; BlueDragon
yosemitest If you're asking me "Do I believe that the Americans who came from Great Britain, the Anglo-Saxons, are physical descendants of the Lost Tribes of Israel?"

then my answer is "Yes. I do."

That was my question. Thank you for answering it

245 posted on 12/05/2012 1:19:37 AM PST by Cronos (**Marriage is about commitment, cohabitation is about convenience.**)
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To: Yosemitest; BlueDragon; boatbums
yosemitest If you're asking me "Do I believe that the Americans who came from Great Britain, the Anglo-Saxons, are physical descendants of the Lost Tribes of Israel?"

then my answer is "Yes. I do."

That was my question. Thank you for answering it

The reason I asked is that the physical, genetic descent is quite incorrect -- if one is to argue spiritual descent, then yes, but genetic descent -- Anglo-Saxons are Aryanic not Semitic...

246 posted on 12/05/2012 1:21:39 AM PST by Cronos (**Marriage is about commitment, cohabitation is about convenience.**)
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To: Cronos
"... there shall not be left one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down"

Jerusalem will be destroyed again.
A lot of Bible Prophesy is dual.
Source

247 posted on 12/05/2012 1:27:48 AM PST by Yosemitest (It's Simple ! Fight, ... or Die !)
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To: Cronos
Saxons are "Isaac's Sons".
Read on.
Source


Also consider this.


Source


Forgive me for not linking more sources into the article.
I'm just too tired tonight.
But please take the time to look them up yourself. It really is great reading.
Never forget that the House of Israel was carried off into slavery
248 posted on 12/05/2012 2:18:47 AM PST by Yosemitest (It's Simple ! Fight, ... or Die !)
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To: Yosemitest; BlueDragon; boatbums; Natural Law
yosemitest If you're asking me "Do I believe that the Americans who came from Great Britain, the Anglo-Saxons, are physical descendants of the Lost Tribes of Israel?"

then my answer is "Yes. I do."

That was my question. Thank you for answering it

The reason I asked is that the physical, genetic descent is quite incorrect -- if one is to argue spiritual descent, then yes, but genetic descent -- Anglo-Saxons are Aryanic not Semitic...

I glanced through the "US and Britain in prophecy" and there are errors:

  1. The great world powers of our time have been, and are, the United States, the Soviet Union, Great Britain, Germany, France, and other Western European nations -- straight away, this forgets that Britain and France are declining fast and this list does not include Japan or China or India
  2. It quote Daniel 12:8-10 and then purports to be the ones who can understand. Earlier ages also had those who claimed to be the ones who understood, so this statement is tenous at the very least
  3. the booklet states that most of the Assyrians, with those Israelite slaves, had migrated from ancient Assyria northwest toward Europe. -- utterly false:
    1. Firstly, Assyrian practise was not take an ethnic group to be enslaved by rather to transport them to the opposite end of their empire -- and in this case it was to Mesopotamia on the borders with Elam, not to the north-west
    2. Secondly, Assyrians were Semites just as were the Babylonians and the Israelites. Assimilation was not difficult as the language and ethnicities were similar. Modern day Iraqis have this northern Israeli tribe blood
    3. Thirdly -- no, the Assyrians did not head north-west. There are Assyrians until today in Iraq
    4. Fourthly -- in the 5th century, to the north west of Assyria there was still the Persian Empire. Persia ran a close, tight bureaucracy and didn't allow such migrations without central permission -- none of the Satraps would allow that
    5. Fiftly -- to the north-west of Assyria were the Armenian and Hittite descendants including Lydians and others and the Georgians had been controlling the Caucasian passes for millenia (think Argos)

    So, this entire statement is false
  4. The "Lost tribes" are not lost -- many came back and intermixed with Judeans, other stayed in Iraq or Syria
  5. They were not "Lost from view" in Daniels day -- read Sirach and you'll see that the intermixing of these semites with other semites was noted
  6. then "neither Britain nor the United States became great powers until the nineteenth century" -- that is false. In the case of Britain they were a great power from the time of the war of Austrian succession in 1757 when they defeated the French in Europe, North America and India and their navy was dominant through the world. Also, England had not been a "minor nation" in Europe since the 1400s -- remember that the English defeated the French in the 100 years war and then were pushed back -- but then truly speaking there was no differentiation between England and France at that time
  7. "white, English speaking peoples" -- most of the English speakers are right now not Anglo-Saxons, not even in the US...
  8. National greatness promised Israel - Yet the Jews never received it -- and here starts the anti-semitic nature of British-Israeliness. The Jews did receive it -- from Judaism sprouts Christianity...
  9. "Britain has been almost overnight stripped of her colonies and her possessions -- source of her wealth" -- hardly overnight, the move to dominion started in the late 1800s and the first Indian war of Indepdendence was in 1858. Also, Britain still has the 6th largest economy, even 60 years after devolving power to its economies
  10. from your link Yet we must face the astounding fact that our white, English-speaking peoples -- not the Jews -- have inherited the national and physical phases of these promises -- again the anti-Semitism and I disagree with the phases mentioned
  11. Birthright never given to the Jews -- sorry, disagree with this too
  12. On page 41 your pamphlet claims that the commonwealth "peoples descended from Abraham" -- err... no. The Anglo-Saxons are of the Tuetonic branch of Indo-Europeans/Aryans. The peoples also include brown peoples like Indians who are still Aryans -- in fact the bulk of the population of the commonwealth was this.
  13. "Esau refer generally to the Turkish nation" -- err.. no, the Turkic peoples were not even in the Biblical consciousness and the Edomites/Idumeans were converted to Judaism by Judas Maccabees and they were defenders of Jerusalem in AD 70, heavily integrated with the Jews. Herod was also an Idumean...
  14. And the biggest whopper of them all, so far on page 106 History shows the descendants of Zarah became wanderers journeying to the north within the confines of the Scythian nations ehtier descendants later migrating to Ireland in the days of King David wow, what a whopper. nothing of the sort happened. The Scytian tribes were led by Irani speaking peoples and included Turkic, Slavic and Germanic elements, no Semitic at all
  15. "The Hebrew term for covenant would be pronounced Brit" -- so then the people of Brittany in France are also the anointed people?
  16. Drop the I from Isaac and you have Saacson -- wow, that's a twister. yet the Saxon confederation not a tribe per say and it was originally called by Ptolemy as the "Aviones" -- the Saxones was an error which the Romans then retained calling one district litus Saxonium -- and your link says that the Anglo-Saxons are not linked to the Saxons in Germany -- wrong again

Ok, enough. The article you posted is pretty wrong to anyone with a knowledge of history -- do read on the migrations of the Germanic peoples and the Indo-European family tree and also on the facial bone structural differences between Aryans and Semites. The English are not Semites...

You know when you've reached true information, because it'll leave you satisfied. -- yes, I am satisfied that God's Grace is to all and that the English are an Aryanic people not a Semitic and also that British-Israeliism and it's anti-Jewish nature is utterly false.

249 posted on 12/05/2012 2:30:01 AM PST by Cronos (**Marriage is about commitment, cohabitation is about convenience.**)
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To: Yosemitest; BlueDragon

Sorry, Saxon is not derived from Saacsons — if they were supposed Semites they would call themselves Bin yitzhak — as semites do, hence the name Benjamin.....


250 posted on 12/05/2012 2:31:38 AM PST by Cronos (**Marriage is about commitment, cohabitation is about convenience.**)
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To: Cronos
One other source, check out OUR SCYTHIAN ANCESTORS by W. Edmund Filmer B.A..
251 posted on 12/05/2012 2:36:28 AM PST by Yosemitest (It's Simple ! Fight, ... or Die !)
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To: Cronos

You believe what you will, and so will I.


252 posted on 12/05/2012 2:38:28 AM PST by Yosemitest (It's Simple ! Fight, ... or Die !)
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To: Yosemitest; BlueDragon

sorry, the term “Dan” is not purely semitic — it is reflected in the Celtic Dana that is also there in France, it is also etymologically linked to the wider Indo-European Don (as in the Don river) etc.


253 posted on 12/05/2012 2:44:39 AM PST by Cronos (**Marriage is about commitment, cohabitation is about convenience.**)
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To: Yosemitest; BlueDragon
The Saxons virtually disappear from history from the sixth century

err.. no -- the Merovingians fought the Saxons and then Charlemagne forcibly converted them in the 8th century and the duchy of Saxony remained until the dissolution by the Congress of Vienna post the Napoleonic wars

254 posted on 12/05/2012 2:48:37 AM PST by Cronos (**Marriage is about commitment, cohabitation is about convenience.**)
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To: Yosemitest; BlueDragon
This is not a question of just belief -- your position states that Nordic peoples are Semitic descendents of the northern tribes of Israel

That is false, genetically, anthropologically and linguistically.

Anglo-Saxons, Germans etc. are Aryanic people not Semitic

255 posted on 12/05/2012 2:56:05 AM PST by Cronos (**Marriage is about commitment, cohabitation is about convenience.**)
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To: Yosemitest; BlueDragon

your link to Scythians is incorrect. Scytia was the term used by Hellens for the barbarians on the north shore of the Kindly Sea. The Cimmerians are what the Assyrians refer to and those were Iranic tribes to the north-EAST...


256 posted on 12/05/2012 2:57:35 AM PST by Cronos (**Marriage is about commitment, cohabitation is about convenience.**)
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To: Yosemitest; BlueDragon
The various "Scythian" tribes were dominated by an Irani speaking elite with Slavics forming the bulk underneath and with Turkic and Germanic elements

The descendents of these rulers were the Alanii who became the Ossetians

The Slavic peoples separated later

257 posted on 12/05/2012 2:59:46 AM PST by Cronos (**Marriage is about commitment, cohabitation is about convenience.**)
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To: Cronos
Your sources are?

I'm waiting.

Have you considered the originm of your "handle", Cronos ? You made an interesting choice.
258 posted on 12/05/2012 4:16:32 AM PST by Yosemitest (It's Simple ! Fight, ... or Die !)
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To: Yosemitest

yes, my handle indicates my interest in history, that is why I’m pointing out that your links saying that Anglo-Saxons are semitic is linguistically, historically, genetically.


259 posted on 12/05/2012 4:38:06 AM PST by Cronos (**Marriage is about commitment, cohabitation is about convenience.**)
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To: Yosemitest; BlueDragon; boatbums
Read this link to tell you about the errors of British-Israelism: http://shalommessianiccongregation.weebly.com/british-israelism-exposed.html
British Israelism (B.I.) claims that the term ‘Jew’ is not used to denote descendants of all the tribes of Israel. That is, while Jews descending from Judah are Israelites not all Israelites are Jews. They generally teach that when the 10 tribes of the Northern Kingdom were carried into Assyria between 741-722 BC they did not return to their land but were scattered and lost. Judah, the Southern kingdom was then carried into Babylon between 605 BC and 586 BC and a remnant later returned.

the Bible does not support such a view. Rather members of all the tribes returned to the land of Israel and were there in New Testament times.

Teachers of B.I. claim the 10 tribes were ‘lost’. Yet James wrote to the 12 tribes scattered abroad. These were obviously members of all the tribes who were living outside the land of Israel. They were not ‘lost’ but were scattered and therefore living outside the Promised Land. When Paul went on his missionary journeys he would go first to the local synagogue to address his fellow countrymen. If the term Jew can be shown to have become synonymous with Israel then the major foundation of BI claims is swept away.

Contrary to BI claims we believe the term Jew did come to be interchangeable with the term Israelite. Consider the following verses in the New Testament. When Yeshua told the Canaanitish woman that ‘I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel,’ (Matt 5:24) surely He did not mean that He was sent to the 10 tribes that had been lost in Western Europe! He meant that His mission on earth was to His own people who were lost spiritually. He never left the land of Israel during His ministry. ‘He came unto His own and His own received Him not.’ (John 1:11) Was that ust to two tribes? John preached repentance in Judea (Mark1:4,5) yet preached repentance ‘to all the people of Israel,’ Acts 13:24. Jews "out of every nation" were dwelling at Jerusalem (Acts 2:5). Peter referred to all of these Jews as "men of Israel" (Acts 2:22). Acts 13: 6 refers to the "synagogue of the Jews" in which Paul preached. In verse 16, Paul called them "men of Israel" and in verse 17 "this people of Israel." In verse 24 he says that John "had first preached repentance to all the people of Israel," in verse 26 he called them the "stock of Abraham," and in verse 33 he referred to the Jews as "us their children"; then, showing that the Jews were the ones to whom he was speaking, verse 42 says "when the Jews came out of the synagogue." So Acts 13 adds up to this: Paul went into the "synagogue of the Jews" talking to the Jews in their synagogue, he called them "men of Israel" "this people Israel," "all the people of Israel," "stock of Abraham," and "us their children" and then "the Jews came out of the synagogue."

Yet there are still British Israelites who claim that Jews are not Israelites!

The B.I. teacher will argue that the passage teaches that the throne of David is to exist continuously forever through all generations. They then ask, if so then where is it today? They claim to have the answer and an appeal is made to the ‘ancient annals of Ireland’ to attempt to prove that Queen Elizabeth now sits on David’s throne.

. It is claimed that a Hebrew princess Tephi was the daughter of King Zedekiah of Judah, and therefore heir to the throne of David. The prophet Jeremiah brought her to Ireland to where Israelites had already migrated. They carried with them the stone upon which Jacob slept and upon which Kings of Judah were crowned. This became the coronation stone "Lia Fail" which until recently was in Westminster Abbey.

Tests on the stone confirm it as a red sandstone of Scottish origin and not from the land of Canaan.

Years after the captivity, "Hezekiah sent to all Israel and Judah, and wrote letters also to "Ephraim and Manasseh that they should come to the house of the LORD at Jerusalem, to keep the Passover unto the LORD God of Israel." (2nd Chron 30:1) Further to that (2nd Chron 30:18) states that, "many of Ephraim and Manasseh, Issachar and Zebulun" came to Jerusalem. That would have been a long trip if they had to come all the way from Britain and Ireland! In the year 628 BC, a century AFTER the Assyrian captivity, Josiah called Israel and Judah to observe the Passover. (2nd Chron 34:9)

Neither has it been explained how USA (Manasseh) could be blessed if they rebelled against the Royal Israelite throne in England. Surely every true Israelite should acknowledge the Throne of David. Verses in Isaiah that refer to "isles" are said by B.I. teachers to mean the British Isles. However in Hebrew the word can be translated "coastlands", "the shore of a mainland or an island coast".

Another major cornerstone of this teaching is that social historical Israel, as it is traditionally perceived, cannot possibly fulfil the promises of physical multiplicity that was to equal "the sand of the sea," "the dust of the earth," or the "stars of the sky." Such a hyper-literalist reading of these phrases, which rules out their common-sense interpretation, ignores the scriptural record. For (2nd Chr 1:9) states clearly that the people over whom Solomon reigned (Israel) were "a people as numerous as the dust of the earth." (Isa 10:22) also refers to the people of Israel being "as the sand of the sea" in number.

So, sorry, British-Israeliism is false.

260 posted on 12/05/2012 4:44:31 AM PST by Cronos (**Marriage is about commitment, cohabitation is about convenience.**)
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