Posted on 12/03/2012 2:15:56 AM PST by DouglasKC
Question: In the passages below a harlot symbolizes something. The title on her head is "MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND OF THE ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH." One of the titles is "the mother of harlots". This suggests that there are other harlots that have sprung from this harlot.
This is more curiosity then anything else...but what are opinions on what this represents?
Rev 17:1 Then one of the seven angels who had the seven bowls came and talked with me, saying to me, "Come, I will show you the judgment of the great harlot who sits on many waters,
Rev 17:2 with whom the kings of the earth committed fornication, and the inhabitants of the earth were made drunk with the wine of her fornication."
Rev 17:3 So he carried me away in the Spirit into the wilderness. And I saw a woman sitting on a scarlet beast which was full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns.
Rev 17:4 The woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet, and adorned with gold and precious stones and pearls, having in her hand a golden cup full of abominations and the filthiness of her fornication.
Rev 17:5 And on her forehead a name was written: MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND OF THE ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.
Rev 17:6 I saw the woman, drunk with the blood of the saints and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus. And when I saw her, I marveled with great amazement.
Rev 17:7 But the angel said to me, "Why did you marvel? I will tell you the mystery of the woman and of the beast that carries her, which has the seven heads and the ten horns.
Rev 17:8 The beast that you saw was, and is not, and will ascend out of the bottomless pit and go to perdition. And those who dwell on the earth will marvel, whose names are not written in the Book of Life from the foundation of the world, when they see the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.
Rev 17:9 "Here is the mind which has wisdom: The seven heads are seven mountains on which the woman sits.
Rev 17:10 There are also seven kings. Five have fallen, one is, and the other has not yet come. And when he comes, he must continue a short time.
Rev 17:11 The beast that was, and is not, is himself also the eighth, and is of the seven, and is going to perdition.
Rev 17:12 "The ten horns which you saw are ten kings who have received no kingdom as yet, but they receive authority for one hour as kings with the beast.
Rev 17:13 These are of one mind, and they will give their power and authority to the beast.
Rev 17:14 These will make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb will overcome them, for He is Lord of lords and King of kings; and those who are with Him are called, chosen, and faithful."
“How is she a false prophet? Anyone who tells Gods truth in these last days (since Christs resurrection) is a prophet.”
I’m sorry, but the Bible is quite clear on this. It’s not simply telling God’s truth that makes you a true prophet. One of the Biblical tests is that true prophets do NOT tell any falsehoods; all their prophecies come to pass exactly as they say. When they do make a false prophecy, we know they are a false prophet, according to Deuteronomy 18:20-22 :
“20 But the prophet, which shall presume to speak a word in my name, which I have not commanded him to speak, or that shall speak in the name of other gods, even that prophet shall die.
21 And if thou say in thine heart, How shall we know the word which the Lord hath not spoken?
22 When a prophet speaketh in the name of the Lord, if the thing follow not, nor come to pass, that is the thing which the Lord hath not spoken, but the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously: thou shalt not be afraid of him.”
Ellen G. White made a great many prophecies that did not come to pass, therefore, she’s a false prophet. Those who follow her are, at the very least, not practicing discernment.
you can always leave that false group and become Christian (Catholic, Lutheran, Orthodox, Presbyterian, Traditional Anglican, Oriental etc.) -- it's your choice
I’m not trying to be difficult here but be specific in what she said that did not come to pass. She specifically said, and I agree, that ALL information be tested against the Bible for accuracy. I don’t see where she’s said anything that is an untruth.
The SDA’s are a very biblically sound group and the accusations are weak at best. This is not an attack on you personally, I can assure you. But the Catholics want to disparage the SDA’s by posting the ex SDA website that says absolutely nothing and yet their own teachings veer FAR FAR FAR from the Bible. Praying to statues and dead people, priests forgiving sins, etc., are NOT grounded in Biblical truth.
really? when Adventists believe SATAN BEARS OUR SINS: "It was seen, also, that while the sin offering pointed to Christ as a sacrifice, and the high priest represented Christ as a mediator, the scapegoat typified Satan, the author of sin, upon whom the sins of the truly penitent will finally be placed" The Great Controversy, p. 422 (emphasis added).
really? when Seventh-day Adventists teach Jesus is Michael the Archangel?
Yes, Seventh-day Adventists share this belief with Jehovahs Witnesses. Adventists are very firm in their belief that Jesus is Michael the Archangel. They must take this position because this is what their prophetess, Ellen G. White taught. They also believe that Jesus is God. There is a glaring contradiction here. Hebrews 1:13-14 says that Jesus is not an angel.
really? when Seventh-day Adventists prophetess Ellen White wrote in 1864 (and republished in 1870) that humans once cohabited with animals and that their offspring produced certain races that exist today. The statement reads: "But if there was one sin above another which called for the destruction of the race by the flood, it was the base crime of amalgamation of man and beast which defaced the image of God, and caused confusion everywhere. God purposed to destroy by a flood that powerful, long-lived race that had corrupted their ways before Him."
really? when Seventh-day Adventists believe the following:
"The kingdom of grace was instituted immediately after the fall of man, when a plan was devised for the redemption of the guilty race" (Great Controversy, p. 347).
Quite in contrast to the Bible:
"For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight" (Ephesians 1:4).
really? when Seventh-day Adventists believe the following:
"Satan appeared to be by the throne, trying to carry on the work of God. I saw them (Christians) look up to the throne, and pray, 'Father, give us Thy Spirit.' Satan would then breathe upon them an unholy influence ..." (Early Writings, p. 56).
really -- Satan taking prayers directed to God?
Sorry, your SDA's are in the same non-Christian group as Mormons and Jehovah's Witnesses.
really? when Seventh-day Adventists believe the following:
"It is a sin to be sick; for all sickness is the result of transgression" (Counsels on Health, p. 37)..
The subject is not being ignorant about those who have already died.
Paul wrote this, correct? So did Paul forget he wrote this when he later wrote ICorinthians 15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall *ALL* be changed,
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the *last* trump; (there are 7 trumps) for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
The rest of the chapter is relevant, I am not going to type it all but I will note that Paul quotes Isaiah 25:8 He will swallow up death in victory; and the Lord GOD will wipe away tears from off all faces; and the *rebuke* of His People shall He take away from off all the earth: for the LORD hath spoken it.
9 And it shall be said in that day, "Lo, this is our God; we have *waited* for Him, and He will save us: this is the LORD; we have *waited* for Him, we will be glad and rejoice in His salvation."
Even way back in Isaiah's days God saw fit to emphasize 'waiting' for the LORD, not buy the first ticket out of here.
Paul also quoted Hosea 13:14.
Now Hosea is an interesting book, given what God told Hosea to do ... Hosea 1:2 The beginning of the word of the LORD by Hosea. And the LORD said to Hosea, "Go, take unto the a wife of whoredoms and the children of whoredoms:
for the land hath committed great whoredom, departing from the LORD,".........
Let's not forget before one jot or tittle of the New Testament ever got put on animal skins or plant products Christ stated Mark 13:23 But take ye heed: behold, I have foretold you all things.
Christianity is overwhelmingly ignorant to what Paul also said in regard to the end..... ICorinthians 10:11 Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples (examples): and they are written for our admonition, (warning), upon whom the ends of the world (age) are come.
Now one must back up a few Scriptures to find out who this *them* is to find out whether or not the not finding the word church after Revelation is what God is saying or if it is a strong delusion. There are 7 churches listed in Revelation and only two are found without fault. It sure has been an interesting thread.
really? when Seventh-day Adventists believe the following:
All the miracles of Christ performed for the afflicted and suffering were, by the power of God, through the ministration of angels. (." Spirit of Prophecy Volume Two pg.76, Second Advent Review and Sabbath Herald January 21, 1873 pr.16)..
Nope, the SDA's are hardly "biblically sound"
you can read more at Ex-adventists -- enjoy
you mean the fake Seventh Day Adventist bible like the Mormon or Jehovah's Witness bible?
In 1994 the Seventh-day Adventists did publish an Adventist paraphrase of the Bible, The Clear Word Bible, done by Adventist pastor and scholar Jack J. Blanco. This paraphrase has made huge changes to the Word of God. Large portions of Scripture have been altered to support Adventist distinctive doctrines. Passages of Scripture that refute Adventist false teaching have been edited so that they are rendered ineffective. This paraphrase is much worse of an attack on the Bible than the Jehovahs Witnesses New World Translation or Joseph Smiths (Mormon) Inspired Translation of the King James Version.
err.. sorry, no they're not -- your post 147 proves that -- please do read a Bible before posting continuously wrong comments like spacejunkie2001 (post 147): No one has been judged yet so no ones in heaven. The Bible is very clear that we dont go with Him until His return.
The thief on the cross was told by Christ he would be with him in paradise but no one has gone yet.
Now evidently you would need to read the Bible son because what you just stated directly contradicts Jesus Christ's own words "Verily I say unto thee, Today shalt thou be with me in paradise" Luke 23:43, -- note that that's the Bible, not some SDA peddled thrash
Might be good if you read the Bible someday, son.
you can read more at Ex-adventists -- enjoy
RE post 179. You keep posting as if you were on that (now deleted) thread. “A bad dishonest liar...”
I’ve told you and yet you don’t beleive me; the poster asked open, honest and sincere questions. But if it advances your religous positions to speak on matters you are ignorant of.... Go Ahead.
But do humor me on this statement you made... “you can always leave that false group and become Christian...”
WHAT false group am I a member of?
Already on this thread, I’ve been “reprimanded” by the RM for calling you a Catholic Boaster. Yet you can barge in here and call names and make false charges regarding a sincerere religous discussion thread you were never on, AND claim I’m a member of a false group.
But as I’ve always said on this thread and others; this is a Catholic site and as an evangelical Christian, I’m used to being used and abused by Catholics.
Carry on.
Lots of reading for you, son
There are TWO classes of people. That class which receives the MARK of the Beast is the class upon whom the PLAGUES OF GOD will fall. So if we can further identify those who shall receive this WRATH OF GOD, and why God will thus punish them, we shall further identify what the mark is.
In Ephesians 5 Paul is telling Christians to flee fornication, covetousness, idolatry -- transgressing the TEN COMMANDMENTS. Then he says: for because of these things [transgressing God's LAW] cometh the WRATH OF GOD [last plagues] upon the children of disobedience" (Eph. 5:6).
How plain! The wrath of God -- the seven last plagues -- is coming on those who DISOBEY God, by violating the Commandments. The plagues fall upon those who have the mark of the beast!
Those who receive the plagues are breakers of God's commandments, and also at the same time receivers of the MARK! It becomes more and more plain that the mark of the beast represents COMMANDMENT-BREAKING.
Notice this again in Colossians 3:5-6: "Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry [transgressions of some of the Ten Commandments]: for which things' sake the wrath of God cometh on the children of disobedience."
Notice it also in the prophecies of the Old Testament: "The great day of the Lord [time of God's wrath -- the last plagues] is near .... That day is a day of wrath, a day of trouble and distress .... And I [God] will bring distress upon men, that they shall walk like blind men [the plagues! But why?], because they have sinned against the Lord ... " (Zeph. 1:14-17).
What is sin?
"Sin is the transgression of the law" (I John 3:4) -- Commandment-breaking.
Now, let's recapitulate! The truth is becoming plain!
1) The mark plainly means the rejecting and breaking of God's commandments. And in James 2:10-11, God says if we break only one of the commandments, we are GUILTY of breaking the Legality of all!
2) The Roman Empire is the real author of this mark. It is the mark of the BEAST, not the woman who rode the beast.
3) The church caused people to be deceived into receiving this mark.
4) Satan gave this Roman Empire its seat and great authority -- it is the political instrument through which Satan works, in deceiving the world.
5) Those who refuse this mark are prohibited from "buying or selling," engaging in commerce, trade, or holding a job.
6) Many of those refusing this mark were, and shall again be, martyred because of their refusal -- because they keep the Commandments of God!
7) Therefore, the inevitable and plain conclusion is that the mark is something enforced by the church, originating in the paganism of the Roman Empire, which a cunning, deceiving devil would seize on as a means of cleverly DECEIVING people into breaking God's Ten Commandments. And it involves a direct connection with holding a job -- engaging in business -- earning a living.
Satan is clever -- cunning -- a deceiver. He palms off counterfeits, which look like the genuine! Naturally he would select the one commandment of God which he can counterfeit with a substitute -- one in which by human reason alone no man could see where it would make any difference! He would select the one which would seem of least importance to the carnal human mind!
He would not try to deceive men on idolatry, profanity, or on stealing, lying, murder, adultery -- though he has led people into all of these.
But WHAT commandment could it be -- what commandment affecting a man's job or his business?
There is only one possible commandment -- the one regarded by the largest number as the "LEAST" of the commandments -- and that is the fourth commandment, which says: "REMEMBER the sabbath day, to keep it holy ... The seventh day is the sabbath of the Lord thy God."
No carnal mind can see, without the special spiritual revelation of God through His Word, where it makes any difference WHICH day man observes.
WHERE DID SUNDAY ORIGINATE? Not with the church, but with the pagan religion of the ROMAN EMPIRE! It is the day on which the ancient pagans assembled at sunrise, faced the east (as they do Easter Sunday morning today) and worshipped the rising SUN. It was Constantine, emperor of the Roman Empire, not a pope, who made SUNDAY the official so-called "Christian day of rest." But it was enforced -- people were caused to accept it universally -- by the CHURCH!
It was for obeying God's FOURTH Commandment -- keeping the Sabbath- -that millions were put to death. The local Council of Laodicea, about A.D. 363, passed this decree: "Christians must not Judaize by resting on the Sabbath, but must work on that day, resting rather on Sunday. But, if any be found to be Judaizing, let them be declared anathema from Christ."
The church caused them to be killed. When the church branded one "anathema" (a heretic), the state police of the Empire began torturing him. Unless he recanted, he was tortured until he died!
Laws became so strict no man could hold a job, or engage in business, unless he worked on Saturday and rested on Sunday. And the world will be so geared that it will be almost impossible for one to "buy or sell" except he receive this MARK OF THE BEAST!
This is the ONLY COMMANDMENT which was altered by the Roman Empire! In Daniel 7:25 we read the prophecy of this BEAST and the little horn (the political government of the church) rising up, which was to think to CHANGE "times and laws." That is, change God's LAW in respect to TIME -- the time for the Sabbath!
Now what is a "mark"? In Bible usage it is virtually synonymous with a "sign," and in one or two places used interchangeably. There is merely this difference: A "mark" is a brand of identification, forced on one. Cattle raisers put by force their mark on their cattle -- their brand. A "sign" is also a badge of IDENTITY, but one voluntarily accepted and used. A druggist hangs a sign in front of his store. It may say, "JONES & CO., DRUGS." It identifies. It tells what kind of store, and who owns it.
Now the beast, in association with the church, used FORCE to brand the Western world with their MARK. Those who obeyed God and kept His Sabbath were martyred. They were unable to "buy or sell." But God does not force anyone. God lets us make our own decision about obeying Him, accepting Christ and becoming His obedient children.
But is the Sabbath God's SIGN that we are Christians, belonging to HIM?
Yes, indeed!
It was after God had made, and ratified, the covenant with Israel. That Old Covenant, of course, was for limited duration and is now replaced with the New. But any covenant made after it had been made and ratified by blood was no part of that Old Covenant.
It was forty days after that ratification that God made a new, separate, different covenant between Himself and all who should be His people, to last forever. This was no temporary covenant, but for all generations, FOREVER.
It is found in Exodus 31:12-17:
"And the Lord spake unto Moses, saying ... Verily MY SABBATHS ye shall keep: for it is a SIGN between me and you throughout your generations." These generations of Israel (see our free booklet "The United States and Britain in Prophecy,") are still going on!
Now WHY is it a sign? Does it IDENTIFY God to us? Does it identify us as HIS? " ... that ye may know that I am the Lord that doth sanctify you."
Get the powerful meaning of those words!
It is a SIGN, that we may KNOW that the Eternal is the true God. It identifies who God is. How? Notice verse 17: "It is a SIGN ... for in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day he rested, and was refreshed." It is the memorial of God's rest from CREATION. Always, in all parts of the Bible, God identifies Himself as CREATOR. How can we distinguish who is the TRUE God, from all the false gods?
The true God created everything that is, including everything from which people have made false gods. Some worshipped the sun. But the Eternal, the true God, created the sun, and rules it. Some worship idols carved out of stone, or wood, or marble. But the true God created that from which they were made, and even the human beings who made them. The Sabbath is GOD'S Sabbath, not the Jewish Sabbath. Never does the Bible call it the "Jewish Sabbath." It identifies GOD as the CREATOR.
The Sabbath was made FOR MAN. So said Jesus (Mark 2:27). It was made WHEN man was made (Genesis 2:1-3). It was MADE -- and it was Christ, the Yahweh or Eternal, who made it! Therefore HE is Lord of the Sabbath! It was made to keep man in the true knowledge of the IDENTITY of the true God, to keep him from idolatry! And history proves that every nation that did NOT keep God's Sabbath worshiped false gods, and did not know who the true God was! When Israel quit keeping God's Sabbath, they went into idolatry (Ezek. 20:5, 11-13, 17-21).
It was for SABBATH-BREAKING GOD SENT BOTH ISRAEL AND JUDAH INTO SLAVERY!
But back to Exodus 31:17-18. It also is the SIGN by which we are identified as belonging to GOD. We BELONG to whom we obey -- so we read in Romans 6:16! It is the sign by which we know He is the ETERNAL ... "that death sanctify YOU." To sanctify is to set apart for spiritual use. The SABBATH sets one apart from the world, and always did -- as OBEYING and belonging to GOD. Can you think of ANY REASON why anyone would EVER keep the Sabbath, except to OBEY GOD? Would any man defy human custom and invite persecution, and be set apart as different, through human reason? Could any atheist be a Sabbath keeper? THE SABBATH IDENTIFIES GOD'S PEOPLE!
God's people, we have seen above, are identified as they who KEEP THE COMMANDMENTS. The world acknowledges all the other nine commandments. The only one the world rejects is the fourth. The only one that sets one apart from the world -- that IDENTIFIES one as belonging to GOD -- that is a SIGN of God -- is the SABBATH.
Notice, verse 16, it is a "PERPETUAL COVENANT." It is a covenant! It is no part of the Old Covenant -- no part of the law of Moses! It was made with Israel after all these, and is a separate, and perpetual COVENANT.
Notice verse 17: "It is a SIGN between me and the children of Israel FOREVER." There it is! It is a COVENANT. It Is FOREVER!
When given to physical, flesh-born Israel, this covenant punished by death any breaking of the SIGN. Today, since the administration of the death penalty by the Levites and judges is not being done (II Cor. 3:7-8), and since all believers, in all nations, whether Israelite or gentile, are grafted into spiritual Israel (Romans 11:24), the willful refusal to keep this sign is punishable by death -- the second death.
"He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses: of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God ... ?" (Heb. 10:28-29).
God says the penalty for SIN is DEATH! Sin is the transgression of the law. If we break only this one commandment, we are guilty. The penalty is DEATH!
The Roman church caused people to receive the MARK of pagan ROME -- the Sunday observed by the pagan Roman Empire -- and the penalty for disobedience was DEATH! Fifty million or more were put to death -- so says history.
The Sabbath commandment is the ONLY commandment the world will not accept in its MIND (forehead) and OBEY (by work, or rest, with the HAND). It is the ONLY commandment that can distinguish between those who have the MARK of the BEAST, or the SIGN OF GOD.
Now the book of Revelation is written mostly in symbols. The right hand symbolizes work or labor -- the forehead, the intellect or mind. It has to do with what we BELIEVE, in the mind, and whether we OBEY, with the hand.
How ABOUT GOD'S SIGN? It also was received in the forehead, and the hand!
Regarding one of God's annual Sabbaths, we read: " ... it shall be for a SIGN unto thee upon thine hand, and for a memorial between thine eyes [forehead], that the Lord's LAW may be in thy mouth" (Ex. 13:9).
Deuteronomy 6:1, 6-8: "Now these are the COMMANDMENTS ... and these words which I command thee this day, shall be in thine heart ... and thou shalt bind them for a SIGN upon thine hand, and they shall be as frontlets between thine eyes."
Deuteronomy 11:18: "Therefore shall ye lay up these my words in your heart and in your soul, and bind them for a SIGN upon your hand, that they may be as front lets between your eyes."
Also see Proverbs 7:2-3 and Revelation 7:3-4; 14:1.
There is absolute proof! Yes, the truth is very plain!
The Sabbath is God's SIGN, standing, more than any commandment, for OBEDIENCE. It was symbolically in the HAND and in the FOREHEAD, just as the MARK of the Beast -- the pagan SUNDAY- -was in the right HAND and in the FOREHEAD!
SUNDAY observance -- Christmas, New Year's, Easter, etc. this is the MARK of the BEAST!
The church did cause all under the "Holy Roman Empire" to receive this mark, during the Middle Ages. Not only were active church members caused to observe Sunday instead of the SABBATH, but it became a universal custom so that all the Western world -- regardless of religious connection or belief, accepted Sunday instead of SATURDAY as the weekly day of rest. It has become universal in the Western world except for Judaism, Islam, a few sects in Christianity, and the comparative few whom God has called out of this world and into His true Church.
Has she stopped?
Just at present she has not the POWER to enforce this mark on everyone. But there will be a United States of Europe union of ten nations. It will be a UNION OF CHURCH AND STATE -- and the church once again will sit astride "The BEAST."
Now notice Daniel 7:21-22: "I beheld, and the same horn [papacy] made war with the saints, and prevailed against them; until the Ancient of days came [Second Coming of Christ] and judgment was given to the saints of the most High."
Yes, the MARK OF THE BEAST once again will be enforced! No one will be able to hold a job or engage in business without it. Those refusing will once again be tortured and martyred -- probably by the secret police of the political state -- but at the behest of the church!
Today, ALL NATIONS are deceived by this paganism masquerading under the name "Christianity."
Today, America, Canada, Britain -- Israelitish nations. descended from the ancient so-called lost ten tribes of Israel -- are actually in the ways of this "BABYLON."
God's last warning is this: "COME OUT of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of HER PLAGUES" (Rev. 18:4)!
IF you are branded by this MARK rejecting the SIGN of God in your forehead and hand, you shall be tortured by God's plagues without mercy! Yes, You!
But if you OBEY God -- if you are watching, praying without ceasing -- you shall be accounted worthy to ESCAPE -- and come under GOD'S PROTECTION (Luke 21:36).
You’ve noted the double standard.
Did you see the sign of the times?:
159 posted on Tuesday, December 04, 2012 12:22:56 AM by Cronos
160 posted on Tuesday, December 04, 2012 12:27:52 AM by Religion Moderator
you know that Ellen G. White died 200 odd years ago -- not the last days. Or do you mean Harold Camping?
and about Ellen g. White, she's the false prophetess of satan in Jeremiah 23:31-32 " Behold, I am against the prophets, said the Lord, that use their tongues and say, He said. Behold, I am against them that prophesy false dreams, said the Lord,
Yet White said that she'd still be alive when Jesus returned...and Mrs White said in May of 1856 that some of those listening to her will live to see the return of Jesus...
and then she said ""As the priest, in removing the sins from the sanctuary, confessed them upon the scapegoat, so Christ will place those sins upon Satan..." The Great Controversy, Pg 422, 485-486"
Face facts - SDAs are non-Christians...led by a false prophetess.
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