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Posted on 11/14/2012 10:44:44 PM PST by reaganaut
Members of the LDS Church are familiar with the charge that Mormonism isn't a Christian faith. They hear it often enough, but they really don't understand why people think that. "We are Christians," Mormon President Gordon B. Hinckley insisted. "We have the name of Jesus Christ right in the name of our Church, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. We follow Christ. We worship Him. We love Him. He is the center of all we do"("Inspirational Thoughts," Liahona, June 1999, 3; 2 Nephi 25:24-29).
In the summer of 2005 we asked Mormons in Nauvoo, Illinois to take a quiz we called "Guess Who?" The quiz consisted of 15 relatively recent statements made by LDS leaders; we asked the participants to see if they could determine who their Church leaders were talking about. We invite you to take the same quiz. The answers will be at the end; see if you can do this without scrolling down for the answers.
His teachings "are the foundation of our faith. Everything we have is a lengthened shadow of [him]."
"I pray we may learn from his example, that we might incorporate into our lives the great principles which he so beautifully taught; that we ourselves might emulate him;..."
"I honor and revere [his] name... I delight to hear it; I love it. I love his doctrine... I am his witness."
"He died for those he loved. He reigns in the realms above."
"The more I learn of him, the more I love and revere him."
"I look to him. I love him. I seek to follow him."
"He not only gave us joy, happiness and opportunity here, but also a great hope in the life to come."
"Today, this Sabbath day, in many thousands of congregations, perhaps as many as twenty-one thousand, in many areas of the earth, our people have sung or will sing the praises of [him]."
"Of noble seed, of heavenly birth, he came to bless the sons of earth."
He was "a man of sorrows and acquainted with grief."
"Church members are interested in learning more about [him] because they love him and they love the gospel he brought forth."
"How great indeed is our debt to him. ...Great is his glory,... We stand in reverence before him... Let us not forget him. Let not his memory be forgotten in the celebration of Christmas."
"...and he shall stand in due time on the earth, in the flesh, and fulfill that to which he is appointed."
"The light, provided to the world by [him], illuminates the confusion, clarifies the principles of the gospel, and helps lead men and women to their own eternal reward, if they will but endure to the end."
The "work that has been carried out by President Young and his brethren [of the Twelve] has been in accordance with the plans, and designs, and Spirit, and instructions of [him]."
How did you do?
If you thought these statements were about Jesus—the One Mormons claim to worship and adore, the One they say is the center of all they do—you are incorrect. In each statement above, the speaker was talking about Joseph Smith.
Quotes with References
His teachings "are the foundation of our faith. Everything we have is a lengthened shadow of [him]." (15th President Gordon B. Hinckley, Church News, 3/19/2005, p.3.)
"I pray we may learn from his example, that we might incorporate into our lives the great principles which he so beautifully taught; that we ourselves might emulate him;..." (Thomas Monson (First Presidency), Ensign, 6/1994, p.7.)
"I honor and revere [his] name... I delight to hear it; I love it. I love his doctrine... I am his witness." (2nd President Brigham Young, quoted in Ensign, 1/1996, p.7.)
"He died for those he loved. He reigns in the realms above." (3rd President John Taylor, Hymns #296, "The Seer, Joseph, The Seer." While this hymn was written in the 18th century, it is still in use as evidenced by its performance by the Mormon Tabernacle Choir during the 175th Semi-Annual General Conference of the LDS Church in October, 2005.)
"The more I learn of him, the more I love and revere him." (Apostle Joseph B. Wirthlin, Church News, 2/19/2005, p.5.)
"I look to him. I love him. I seek to follow him." (15th Gordon B. Hinckley, Church News, 12/13/2003, p.3.)
"He not only gave us joy, happiness and opportunity here, but also a great hope in the life to come." (Apostle L. Tom Perry, Church News, 7/3/1993, p.4.)
"Today, this Sabbath day, in many thousands of congregations, perhaps as many as twenty-one thousand, in many areas of the earth, our people have sung or will sing the praises of [him]." (15th President Gordon B. Hinckley, Ensign, 9/1994, p.62.)
"Of noble seed, of heavenly birth, he came to bless the sons of earth." (John Taylor, Hymns #296, "The Seer, Joseph, The Seer.")
He was "a man of sorrows and acquainted with grief." (BYU Professor Robert Millet, Ensign, 9/1994, p.19.)
"Church members are interested in learning more about [him] because they love him and they love the gospel he brought forth." (LDS Church Historian Glen M. Leonard, Church News, 12/6/1997, p.4.)
"How great indeed is our debt to him. ...Great is his glory,... We stand in reverence before him... Let us not forget him. Let not his memory be forgotten in the celebration of Christmas." (15th President Gordon B. Hinckley, Ensign, 12/1997, p.2.)
"...and he shall stand in due time on the earth, in the flesh, and fulfill that to which he is appointed." (Church News, 7/19/1994, p.5.)
"The light, provided to the world by [him], illuminates the confusion, clarifies the principles of the gospel, and helps lead men and women to their own eternal reward, if they will but endure to the end." (Church News, 12/13/1997, p.16.)
The "work that has been carried out by President Young and his brethren [of the Twelve] has been in accordance with the plans, and designs, and Spirit, and instructions of [him]." (George A. Smith (First Presidency), quoted in Church News, 12/20/1997, p.7.)
That is not any more interesting of a question than is this one: How many Roman Catholics or even Roman Catholic priests don't believe that Jesus Christ is the Incarnate Second Person of the Trinity?
The answer to both is: not one person who does not believe that Jesus Christ is the Incarnate Second Person of the Trinity is a Christian. It doesn't matter what church or cult they associate with or how much education or training they have had, etc., if they don't believe that, they are not Christians. Just because someone calls themselves a Christian or even a pastor or a priest, no matter what denomination they are "associated" with does not make them a Christian.
I'm with you on this, folks, more than 100% ...
Mormons will say that they don't worship Joseph Smith, yet a look at the above quotes sound a lot like things Christians would say about Christ, even using biblical terms that apply to Christ, yet the LDS apply them to Joseph Smith. (Post 1) reaganaut
... but this aspect of LDS doctrine is one I had missed on my study and documents related to LDS applications. Good assertion.
Implicite in the statement from any Mormon I have met and said "We are Christians" is they are ....You are not. (Post 3) Vendome
Yeah, I sang in a Barbershop quartet in which the lead was an LDS member. We had several discussions on our beliefs demonstrating their irreconcilabilities. (As an aside, his name was Norman. Guess our nickname for him -- )
Finally, I believe the Bible and AS A CHRISTIAN I am COMMANDED to speak out against false teachings and false Christ’s. I am doing what the BIBLE commands me. (Post 23) reaganaut
I'm glad you have, here with this article and responses. I support you (which is little), but the Holy Scriptures undergird your stance strongly and firmly, commanding that you earnestly contend for The Faith once delivered to the saints, for the purpose of showing the common facts leading to conviction, repentance, persistently committed trust, and eternal salvation.
And I know first hand that Mormonism isn’t Christian. I was saved out of it almost 20 years ago. (Post 32) reaganaut
Ah, that is not unique. If you really hold the various implementation of doctrines to the light of Scripture, you will find the LDS teaching is not the only rejection of interpretation faced by the matured disciple of The Christ. I was saved out of Methodism, whose foundation really traces back through the Anglican connection and is anchored in the Romanism religion.
The Master privately warned his disciples:
"... if* any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ^**, or there; believe it not***. For there shall arise false Christs****, and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders, insomuch that if***** it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect" (Mt 24:23-24, cf. Mk 13:21-22; also 2 Pet. 2:1-3).
(Keys:
- if* : if, and it may be = 3rd class conditional
- Christ^** : ^ meaning "Anointed One" in English, "Messiach" in Hebrew; ** this is articular, should be "The Christ"
- believe...not*** : do not commit trust to the prophet or to a christ he is claiming to be The Christ
- Christs**** : this is anarthrous, and should be rendered without the specificity lent by capitalization -- "christ"
- if***** : if, and it is true = 1st class conditional)
In counseling the divided church at Corinth, Apostle Paul's agony over them was inscripturated:
"... I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ^**. For if he that cometh preaches another^^ Jesus, whom we~ have not preached,or if ye receive another^^^ spirit, which ye have not received, or another^^^ gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him" (2 Cor. 11:3-4)
(Keys:
- Christ^** : as above, The Christ, The Messiach. The Anointed One [refers to The God's water- and Spirit-anointed The King of Kings]
- another^^ : in the Koine Greek, allo = anotherof the same kind
we~ : "we" is Apostle Paul and his disciple Timothy (and of course inspiring The Holy Ghost), exclusively
another ^^^ : in the Koine Greek, hetero = another of a different kind)
Paul and Timothy's fear was that the minds of the Corinthian assembly's constituents would be corrupted by the elders allowing false prophets to air their views before the congregation, rather than discerning the drift of false teachers, declaring them anathema, and forbidding their assembling with the brethren.
Here, Paul and Timothy are not talking about Mormons or JWs or Unitarians, each of whom have other christs of a different kind (who should be summarily rejected, not even bidding them "Good day" nor of inviting them into your house for a discussion; see 2 John verses 9-11). No, they are warning of those who present another Jesus of the same kind, who was said to be The Same True Jesus (who is/was Eternal God incarnated, lived, suffered, died, visited Paradise, resurrected, ascended, returned briefly to walk 40 days with his converted disciples, reascended, sent His Spirit to regenerate the converted believer-disciples, and Who is to come to this sphere once more); BUT IS NOT. This "Jesus" is one described to be of the same kind, but whose "gospel" is of a "salvation" that can be lost, which depends on supererogatory works of the adherent; and which offers a second chance after death; as well as requiring one to seek Him to obtain His Grace by earning it through observing religious rituals. The true regenerated believer-disciple is faced with a plethora of similar christs but whose salvation plan is contraindicated by scripture, as is the spirit behind such a gospel.
So, in pointing toward those claiming God's favor but who have various false christs of a different kind, a dissimilar kind, who will not survive the examination by even a spiritual infant; one should at the same time warn more spiritually mature people, who have overcome the Wicked One, but whom might still be vulnerable to the approaches by preachers who offer a christ of a similar kind, another one of the same kind, but with a different doctrine of church polity, of salvation, of corrupted scripture translation, etc.; whose spirit is not The Holy Ghost, but is one from that dragon, the serpent, the Liar and father of falsehood, that old Devil.
Watch out for these also, who more subtly seek to divide the brethren. These are spiritually discerned, not beguiling the person steeped in the deep things of The God.
Warmly, but winning, watching, and warning regenerated disciples ---
It is becoming tiresome.
No, you are not Christians. You do not teach the truth about Jesus Christ. If you get the person and work of Christ wrong, you are not Christians. You are heretics, false teachers, who need to be condemned.
BTW, while I condemn Mormonism for the false teaching that it is, at the same time I just voted for a Mormon for President. His wrong religious beliefs had nothing to do with my thinking he would do a better job in the office than his opponent.
That is a false dichotomy, and it is contrary to what we see in the New Testament.
I am opposed to disorganized religion.
Ping! Smithmas is coming!
Well, you were fooled before.
What if you have been fooled again?
While I do believe in a creator, I think the the world’s religions are yet another attempt by mankind to control minds on a large scale basis.
I do not believe that anyone knows or has ever known why we are here, how we got here, or what our purpose is if any. One thing I do know for certain is that people fear their own mortality, and other people use that fear to control them.
You really do not know for a fact that anyone’s teachings are false. You do not know for a 100% fact that your teachings are false or not. They are your beliefs, and nothing more.
We’re going on a Disney Cruise !!!
Zippity-do-da !!!
Belle, Jasmine, Ariel !!!
:)
Well, your atheistic broad brushing of all religions together is not only inaccurate, but is ill-fitting on this “pro-God” forum, which the owner has often affirmed it to be, as in
“For God, Family, Country, Life and Liberty!!
If you cannot live with the above, fine, but keep your mouth shut about it while on FR. Don’t fight against us on ANY of our deeply held beliefs!! “ - Jim Robinson
If i want debates with atheists, i can and do go to the Huffington post, on which i have been debating a prohomosexual atheist.
However, if you want to civilly discuss the differences btwn a cult and Biblical faith, and benefits thereof, then that has a place here.
Hard to find, but as Jesus could not be God is He sinned,
73% (highest) of Pentecostal/Foursquare believers strongly affirm that Christ was sinless on earth, with Catholics, Lutherans and Methodists being tied at 33%, and the lowest being among Episcopalians with just 28% http://www.barna.org/barna-update/article/5-barna-update/53
Also,
In releasing the telephone survey of 612 adults of the Diocese of Camden (NJ) by by the Barna Group, Bishop Joseph Galante said he was particularly dismayed to learn that 57 percent of the Catholics believed Jesus had sinned during his time on Earth and was “no different” from other human beings — in sharp contrast to core church teaching that Jesus was without sin. Only 28 percent of non-Catholic Christians thought Jesus had sinned. http://articles.philly.com/2012-05-05/news/31573457_1_parishes-diocese-gay-marriage
As far as denominations go, a poorly referenced chart says that less than 2.2 percent of Christians belong to sects professing to believe that Jesus is not God. http://christianity.stackexchange.com/questions/9451/what-percent-of-christians-believe-jesus-was-not-god-and-instead-was-messenger
mixing fruit here. Mormonism rejects the trinity as a matter of doctrine
what INDIVIDUALS believe in contradiction to that denomination DOCTRINE is a folly on the individual, not the denomination.
I’m not an atheist at all.
I do not practice any religion, however.
Furthermore, I do not believe that my belief system is some type of universal law and that other belief systems are an offense to it.
From what I can see, you are a bigot who cannot accept that other may not see things as you do, and you are only comfortable in an echo chamber where no voice challenges your view of things.
I am also for God, Family, Country, and Liberty.
I am not for Mormon bashing.
Thanks for the bump!
Counterfeiting is not a joke.
When people accept a counterfeit Jesus, there are ETERNAL consequences. Romney continually put forth a counterfeit faith in a fake plastic lds jesus.
These posts are still timely.
Jesus is timeless.
Excellent post.
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