Posted on 11/14/2012 10:44:44 PM PST by reaganaut
Members of the LDS Church are familiar with the charge that Mormonism isn't a Christian faith. They hear it often enough, but they really don't understand why people think that. "We are Christians," Mormon President Gordon B. Hinckley insisted. "We have the name of Jesus Christ right in the name of our Church, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. We follow Christ. We worship Him. We love Him. He is the center of all we do"("Inspirational Thoughts," Liahona, June 1999, 3; 2 Nephi 25:24-29).
In the summer of 2005 we asked Mormons in Nauvoo, Illinois to take a quiz we called "Guess Who?" The quiz consisted of 15 relatively recent statements made by LDS leaders; we asked the participants to see if they could determine who their Church leaders were talking about. We invite you to take the same quiz. The answers will be at the end; see if you can do this without scrolling down for the answers.
His teachings "are the foundation of our faith. Everything we have is a lengthened shadow of [him]."
"I pray we may learn from his example, that we might incorporate into our lives the great principles which he so beautifully taught; that we ourselves might emulate him;..."
"I honor and revere [his] name... I delight to hear it; I love it. I love his doctrine... I am his witness."
"He died for those he loved. He reigns in the realms above."
"The more I learn of him, the more I love and revere him."
"I look to him. I love him. I seek to follow him."
"He not only gave us joy, happiness and opportunity here, but also a great hope in the life to come."
"Today, this Sabbath day, in many thousands of congregations, perhaps as many as twenty-one thousand, in many areas of the earth, our people have sung or will sing the praises of [him]."
"Of noble seed, of heavenly birth, he came to bless the sons of earth."
He was "a man of sorrows and acquainted with grief."
"Church members are interested in learning more about [him] because they love him and they love the gospel he brought forth."
"How great indeed is our debt to him. ...Great is his glory,... We stand in reverence before him... Let us not forget him. Let not his memory be forgotten in the celebration of Christmas."
"...and he shall stand in due time on the earth, in the flesh, and fulfill that to which he is appointed."
"The light, provided to the world by [him], illuminates the confusion, clarifies the principles of the gospel, and helps lead men and women to their own eternal reward, if they will but endure to the end."
The "work that has been carried out by President Young and his brethren [of the Twelve] has been in accordance with the plans, and designs, and Spirit, and instructions of [him]."
How did you do?
If you thought these statements were about Jesus—the One Mormons claim to worship and adore, the One they say is the center of all they do—you are incorrect. In each statement above, the speaker was talking about Joseph Smith.
Quotes with References
His teachings "are the foundation of our faith. Everything we have is a lengthened shadow of [him]." (15th President Gordon B. Hinckley, Church News, 3/19/2005, p.3.)
"I pray we may learn from his example, that we might incorporate into our lives the great principles which he so beautifully taught; that we ourselves might emulate him;..." (Thomas Monson (First Presidency), Ensign, 6/1994, p.7.)
"I honor and revere [his] name... I delight to hear it; I love it. I love his doctrine... I am his witness." (2nd President Brigham Young, quoted in Ensign, 1/1996, p.7.)
"He died for those he loved. He reigns in the realms above." (3rd President John Taylor, Hymns #296, "The Seer, Joseph, The Seer." While this hymn was written in the 18th century, it is still in use as evidenced by its performance by the Mormon Tabernacle Choir during the 175th Semi-Annual General Conference of the LDS Church in October, 2005.)
"The more I learn of him, the more I love and revere him." (Apostle Joseph B. Wirthlin, Church News, 2/19/2005, p.5.)
"I look to him. I love him. I seek to follow him." (15th Gordon B. Hinckley, Church News, 12/13/2003, p.3.)
"He not only gave us joy, happiness and opportunity here, but also a great hope in the life to come." (Apostle L. Tom Perry, Church News, 7/3/1993, p.4.)
"Today, this Sabbath day, in many thousands of congregations, perhaps as many as twenty-one thousand, in many areas of the earth, our people have sung or will sing the praises of [him]." (15th President Gordon B. Hinckley, Ensign, 9/1994, p.62.)
"Of noble seed, of heavenly birth, he came to bless the sons of earth." (John Taylor, Hymns #296, "The Seer, Joseph, The Seer.")
He was "a man of sorrows and acquainted with grief." (BYU Professor Robert Millet, Ensign, 9/1994, p.19.)
"Church members are interested in learning more about [him] because they love him and they love the gospel he brought forth." (LDS Church Historian Glen M. Leonard, Church News, 12/6/1997, p.4.)
"How great indeed is our debt to him. ...Great is his glory,... We stand in reverence before him... Let us not forget him. Let not his memory be forgotten in the celebration of Christmas." (15th President Gordon B. Hinckley, Ensign, 12/1997, p.2.)
"...and he shall stand in due time on the earth, in the flesh, and fulfill that to which he is appointed." (Church News, 7/19/1994, p.5.)
"The light, provided to the world by [him], illuminates the confusion, clarifies the principles of the gospel, and helps lead men and women to their own eternal reward, if they will but endure to the end." (Church News, 12/13/1997, p.16.)
The "work that has been carried out by President Young and his brethren [of the Twelve] has been in accordance with the plans, and designs, and Spirit, and instructions of [him]." (George A. Smith (First Presidency), quoted in Church News, 12/20/1997, p.7.)
I’m not going to burn in Hell because I am not of your religion.
That is so incredibly obnoxious. Quit trying to control people with garbage like that.
I covered this already in my citation to you of John 3:18. This issue isn't what you've done or not done with "religion." The issue is what how you've responded -- or not responded -- to believing in Christ...and allowing His blood to cover your sins in the eyes of God.
No.
I wouldn’t.
Jesus was neither zealous nor was he obsessed. Those are human conditions and neither of them are particularly good.
Jesus loves us. Love. Despite our considerable flaws.
You are not capable of the same, that much is obvious and has been for sometime. That being said, neither am I.
Ok, ok, you are able (well most people figure it out) to decide what you see on the right hand side bar.......I am just so sorry that you are unable apparently to figure that out.
But, hey that is free will......most people just avoid what aggravates them......like you and Christians.
Sorry. Not so.
13 When it was almost time for the Jewish Passover, Jesus went up to Jerusalem. 14 In the temple courts he found people selling cattle, sheep and doves, and others sitting at tables exchanging money. 15 So he made a whip out of cords, and drove all from the temple courts, both sheep and cattle; he scattered the coins of the money changers and overturned their tables. 16 To those who sold doves he said, “Get these out of here! Stop turning my Father’s house into a market!” 17 His disciples remembered that it is written: “ZEAL for your house will consume me.” (John 2)
The quotation citation within John 2 is Psalm 69:9
The apostle Paul added in Galatians 4:18 It is fine to be zealous, provided the purpose is good...
For Jews, zealous etymologically is tied to "jealousness."
For humans, we don't do well with jealousy. But with God who is pure, and since He has "rights" over His creation, His jealousy is pure...to the extent God says His very Name "is Jealous":
14 Do not worship any other god, for the Lord, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God. (Exodus 34:14)
So whose authority on this are we to believe? Chris? Or the Bible?
Correct. I supposed I should have PM'd Chris. I avoid the religious forum, I don't like religious bigots, it ruins my FR experience and hinders my desire to financially support FR. The only reason I came here is because I saw Chris' name on the list of recent posts and I do like him. Apparently some assume my post to Chris indicated an interest on my part in their cut and paste proselytizing, but nothing could be further from the truth. Unfortunately I can not turn off the RF without turning off all the other forums I wish to see.
Peace be with you, over and OUT.
Btw, some scholars say that as many as FIVE of Jesus' dozen disciples were "zealots"...with ONLY Judas "not working out" well among those five.
Iow, Jesus was not only NOT ashamed to be around them, He actively recruited them!
okey dokey
I do not care what scholars have to say, they weren’t there, they do not know. What you are discussing is opinion.
You believe what you want, and I’ll believe what I want.
Just because the word zeal was used does not mean Jesus was a zealot, and if you want to worship a jealous God, then you do that, I’m not going to.
I do not agree with every word the Bible says, I am not a Christian.
Quit trying to control people with garbage like that.
_________________________________________
Would you intervene for my Christian ancestors and tell the Mormons to stop trying to control them with their Mormon garbage like that ???
Like I told you, svcw, if the website operator wants it to be seen, then I’m going to see it.
Yeah I can avoid what aggrvates me, or I can confront it directly.
I am like two bulls in half a china shop, so use your imagination and guess which course of action I am likely to take.
It would make sense if you actually contributed to the conversation but hey break away...........
If I was speaking to them and they were doing that, then yes, I would.
I’ve already stated that that is something I do not support, I am not for converting people, not am I for being converted.
Doesn’t mean I hate them for it, but it is one of a number of reaosn that I do not practice or believe in religion.
Just because I am not saying what you want me to say doesn’t mean that I am not contributing to the conversation.
But they did and you just stood by and let them...
Those anti-Christian Mormon bigots dead dunked my Christian ancestors into Mormonism against their expressed final wishes and you didnt object...
they denied my ancestors their freedom of religion..
Wheres your outrage ???
Arent you going to do something ???
Ok, honey whatever you want to beleive...... now just run along and contribute.
#1...that's just your opinion...with no weight behind it.
#2...I could imagine you in a high school & college history course...where every other phrase uttered by you in response to what the teacher/prof said would be, "they weren't there, they do not know. What you are discussing is opinion."
Nope, don’t care.
Go jihad them if you want, me I’ll stay away from religion.
Wasn’t asking for and don’t need your permission, babe.
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