Posted on 11/02/2012 7:17:23 AM PDT by marshmallow
(Reuters) - It's rare to be invited to an event five years off and even rarer to bicker about its details, but Germany's Catholic Church finds itself in that delicate situation thanks to an overture from its Protestant neighbors.
German Protestants are planning jubilee celebrations in 2017 to mark the 500th anniversary of Martin Luther's launching of the Reformation, a major event in the history of Christianity, of Europe and of the German nation, language and culture.
The Protestants have invited the Catholics to join in, a gesture in harmony with the good relations the two halves of German Christianity enjoy and the closeness many believers feel across the denominational divide.
But even after five centuries, being asked to commemorate a divorce that split western Christianity and led to many bloody religious wars is still hard for some Catholics to swallow.
"It's not impossible in principle, but it depends on the character of the events planned," Bishop Gerhard Feige, the top Catholic official dealing with Protestants, said in a statement for the Protestant Reformation Day holiday on Wednesday.
"Catholic Christians consider the division of the western Church as a tragedy and - at least until now - do not think they can celebrate this merrily," he wrote in the text outlining Catholic doubts about the event.
LUTHER, A GERMAN GIANT
The Reformation began in 1517 when German monk Martin Luther nailed his 95 Theses to a church door to denounce corruption in the Catholic Church, especially the sale of indulgences to help build the lavish new Saint Peter's Basilica in Rome.
Excommunicated by Rome, he won support from German princes who soon battled others who remained Catholic. The ensuing wars of religion killed about a third of Germany's population over the next century and spread to neighboring countries as well.
After............
(Excerpt) Read more at reuters.com ...
If Europe maintains it’s current course, there wont’ be any Protestants or Catholics left in Germany in 5 years;
There will only be Muslims...
...and the ashes and bones of Martyrs.
View it as being polite over the Thanksgiving table with you nutty inlaws.
Though the Free Church Lutherans won't be at the party one way or the other. The State Church has little use for them.
ping
Can’t vee all yust get along?
I saw reply with a hearty and gracious thank you, announce a new ordinariate, show up merrily and have a clip board for any sign-ups while you’re there. Perhaps, better yet, tape it to the front door when you get there.
Suggestion for note: Actun - 19 reasons the bishop thinks you should consider coming come back to the One, holy, catholic and apolostolic Church.
Ephesians 1:1-6 includes Catholics and Protestants who confess with their mouth and believe in their heart that Jesus is the Christ.
4 Therefore I, a prisoner for serving the Lord, beg you to lead a life worthy of your calling, for you have been called by God.
2 Always be humble and gentle. Be patient with each other, making allowance for each other’s faults because of your love.
3 Make every effort to keep yourselves united in the Spirit, binding yourselves together with peace.
4 For there is one body and one Spirit, just as you have been called to one glorious hope for the future.
5 There is one Lord, one faith, one baptism, 6 and one God and Father, who is over all and in all and living through all.
He himself never claimed to have done this, and he boasted about many exploits in his writings and in his "Table Talk" conferences without ever mentioning it.
The first reference to this imaginary event was written years later by someone who lived hundreds of miles away from Wittenberg and had no direct knowledge of the events.
The real beginning of the schismatic movement was not his theses (which were likely presented in the course of a disputation at the university, like every other formal disputation), but when Johannes Tetzel publicly defended his views - against Luther's - in front of a panel that included Luther, when Tetzel was obtaining his doctoral degree in theology.
Tetzel was given his doctorate over Luther's objections.
The fact that Luther was an Augustinian, that Tetzel was a Dominican, and that Dominicans were considered by Augustinians to have a very high opinion of their own scholarship and a low opinion of everyone else's, was probably a factor.
Luther was enraged, and publicly preached against Tetzel's views from the pulpit.
Tetzel was also enraged by the public airing of the dispute and Luther's characteristically aggressive verbiage and he took to the pulpit.
What started as a personal battle between Tetzel and Luther became a local cause celebre so that by three years later, Luther had become famous and the leader of a movement.
Another interesting thing is that the Magisterium rejected both Tetzel's high view of indulgences and Luther's low view.
Frisk them to make sure they aren’t carrying oil cans.
What Germany and the rest of Europe needs is a Christian revival. We used to send missionaries to spread Christianity to places like Africa and East Asia. Maybe some of the thriving Christian churches in places like Korea and Uganda should start sending missionaries to Europe.
All religion, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, or otherwise was expunged from eastern Germany during the Communist era. It is considered the most atheistic region in the world. I don’t expect too many celebrations there.
St Nicholas Church - Leipzig 1989 (The Untold story of what brought The Wall down)
The Protestants have invited the Catholics to join in, a gesture in harmony with the good relations the two halves of German Christianity enjoy and the closeness many believers feel across the denominational divide.
But even after five centuries, being asked to commemorate a divorce that split western Christianity and led to many bloody religious wars is still hard for some Catholics to swallow.
"It's not impossible in principle, but it depends on the character of the events planned," Bishop Gerhard Feige, the top Catholic official dealing with Protestants, said in a statement for the Protestant Reformation Day holiday on Wednesday.
I've got an idea on how it can be inclusive and respectful! The German Lutherans can hire actors to portray the Borgia popes, Pope Leo X, and Johann Tetzel, and they can all throw chocolate-candy-coins to the crowd along the parade route :)
“What Germany and the rest of Europe needs is a Christian revival. We used to send missionaries to spread Christianity to places like Africa and East Asia. Maybe some of the thriving Christian churches in places like Korea and Uganda should start sending missionaries to Europe.”
My church has had missionaries in Scotland for several years now. The local laws there are very restrictive about what the missionaries can talk about and it’s almost as if it’s illegal to be a Christian there. If Scotland votes to go independent from the UK in 2014 people in my church expect that religion will be outlawed in Scotland entirely.
That is a sad development. The Scots were once known as the "people of the Book" because of their devotion to Christianity.
Luther's posting of the 95 theses was noted by his personal secretary, George Rore in a volume in which Luther himself later made notations in his own hand. Roughly translated the note states:
On the night before All Saints' Day in the year of our Lord 1517, theses about letters of indulgence were nailed to the doors of the Wittenberg churches by Doctor Martin Luther.(emphasis mine)
The significance of the plural of doors and churches is that it was the common practice of Doctor Luther, and apparently all others in Wittenberg at the time, to post the subject of the next day's homily; the church doors serving as a sort of public bulletin board. It would have been notable had Luther not posted the theses.
Tetzel was not awarded his doctorate until 1518, a year after the posting of the 95 theses. So while the Magisterium displayed its disagreement with Luther by issuing the Exsurge Domine of 1520, and later the Decet Romanum Pontificem of 1521, it displayed it's disagreement with Tetzel's sale of indulgences by awarding him a doctorate and keeping the money.
Be rooted in Christ!
Ephesians 1:1-6(sic)
You posted Ephesians 4:1-6 not Ephesians 1:1-6, which reads:
"Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ, by the will of God, to all the saints who are at Ephesus, and to the faithful in Christ Jesus. Grace be to you, and peace from God the Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ. Blessed by the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, Who hath blessed us with spiritual blessings in heavenly places, in Christ: As He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and unspotted in His sight in charity. Who hath predestinated us unto the adoption of children through Jesus Christ unto Himself: according to the purpose of His will: Unto the praise of the glory of His grace, in which He hath graced us in His beloved Son." Ephesians 1:1-6
Here's a couple more for you to try and digest, hopefully with better success:
"And we charge you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you withdraw yourselves from every brother walking disorderly, and not according to the tradition which they have received of us." 2 Thessalonians 3:6
"Understanding this first, that no prophecy of scripture is made by private interpretation. For prophecy came not by the will of man at any time: but the holy men of God spoke, inspired by the Holy Ghost." 2 Peter 1:20-21
Did they reject the money that came from the sale of indulgences? Would keeping that money be the medium view?
"Im Jahr 1517 am Vortag des Allerheiligenfestes hat Dr. Martin Luther in Wittenberg an den Türen der Kirchen seine Ablassthesen bekannt gegeben."
An accurate translation would be:
"In the year 1517 on the eve of All Saints Dr. Martin Luther had made his indulgence theses known at the doors of the churches."
This statement is ambiguous, not dispositive.
At no point does it say "were nailed to the doors."
Assuming that Luther carefully read Roerer's notes to this volume (it was a German language edition of Luther's own translation of the New Testament which he apparently used for reference at some point in the late 1530s - so I doubt he was focused on Roerer's annotations more on the text itself), and expressed personal approval of their historical accuracy, it really wouldn't prove that the theses were dramatically nailed.
And there really isn't any evidence that the church doors of Wittenberg were used as bulletin boards.
Tetzel was not awarded his doctorate until 1518, a year after the posting of the 95 theses.
Actually I believe it was awarded in early 1518, so just a few months after the 95 theses.
it displayed it's disagreement with Tetzel's sale of indulgences by awarding him a doctorate and keeping the money
The Magisterium does not grant doctoral degrees. The local faculty did. The Church kept the donations for the rebuilding of the basilica, because it is perfectly legitimate to request donations for the restoration of churches.
The reality is that when the Council of Trent was convened and the Magisterium clarified ambiguity on the doctrine of indulgences, Tetzel's expressed position and Luther's expressed position were both at variance with the Church's teaching.
However, Karl von Miltitz (the papal nuncio) had already evaluated Tetzel's 106 theses on indulgences in 1518 and told him that they were of questionable orthodoxy, and that he should refrain from characterizing his views as the Church's teaching. He did so refrain.
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