Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

To: marshmallow
It's interesting that every account of the Luther story has him nailing his 95 theses to a church door, when there is zero evidence that this ever happened.

He himself never claimed to have done this, and he boasted about many exploits in his writings and in his "Table Talk" conferences without ever mentioning it.

The first reference to this imaginary event was written years later by someone who lived hundreds of miles away from Wittenberg and had no direct knowledge of the events.

The real beginning of the schismatic movement was not his theses (which were likely presented in the course of a disputation at the university, like every other formal disputation), but when Johannes Tetzel publicly defended his views - against Luther's - in front of a panel that included Luther, when Tetzel was obtaining his doctoral degree in theology.

Tetzel was given his doctorate over Luther's objections.

The fact that Luther was an Augustinian, that Tetzel was a Dominican, and that Dominicans were considered by Augustinians to have a very high opinion of their own scholarship and a low opinion of everyone else's, was probably a factor.

Luther was enraged, and publicly preached against Tetzel's views from the pulpit.

Tetzel was also enraged by the public airing of the dispute and Luther's characteristically aggressive verbiage and he took to the pulpit.

What started as a personal battle between Tetzel and Luther became a local cause celebre so that by three years later, Luther had become famous and the leader of a movement.

Another interesting thing is that the Magisterium rejected both Tetzel's high view of indulgences and Luther's low view.

8 posted on 11/02/2012 7:51:23 AM PDT by wideawake
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]


To: marshmallow; All

Frisk them to make sure they aren’t carrying oil cans.


9 posted on 11/02/2012 8:00:20 AM PDT by abenaki (It CAN happen here.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies ]

To: wideawake
A couple of things:

Luther's posting of the 95 theses was noted by his personal secretary, George Rore in a volume in which Luther himself later made notations in his own hand. Roughly translated the note states:

On the night before All Saints' Day in the year of our Lord 1517, theses about letters of indulgence were nailed to the doors of the Wittenberg churches by Doctor Martin Luther.(emphasis mine)

The significance of the plural of doors and churches is that it was the common practice of Doctor Luther, and apparently all others in Wittenberg at the time, to post the subject of the next day's homily; the church doors serving as a sort of public bulletin board. It would have been notable had Luther not posted the theses.

Tetzel was not awarded his doctorate until 1518, a year after the posting of the 95 theses. So while the Magisterium displayed its disagreement with Luther by issuing the Exsurge Domine of 1520, and later the Decet Romanum Pontificem of 1521, it displayed it's disagreement with Tetzel's sale of indulgences by awarding him a doctorate and keeping the money.

16 posted on 11/02/2012 11:05:55 AM PDT by Mr. Lucky
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies ]

To: wideawake
Another interesting thing is that the Magisterium rejected both Tetzel's high view of indulgences and Luther's low view

Did they reject the money that came from the sale of indulgences? Would keeping that money be the medium view?

19 posted on 11/02/2012 11:21:14 AM PDT by xone
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies ]

To: wideawake
The real beginning of the schismatic movement was not his theses

So you disagree with this:

Yet not until the question of the "sale" of indulgences arose in Luther's diocese did the issue acquire "legs," as the journalists say.

The "selling" of indulgences occurred in the neighboring diocese of Mainz; it was the spill-over into the Luther's diocese and into his confessional that brought the issue to his attention. The twenty-three year-old archbishop of Mainz had allowed indulgences to be preached in his diocese in exchange for a "cut" in the revenue raised. The money was supposed to go to rebuild St. Peter's Basilica in Rome. In fact, the archbishop needed the money to pay a fee to the Roman Curia for a dispensation allowing him to hold three dioceses at once.

Who’s Who in the Reformation

What was 'schismatic' about opposing the buying and selling of indulgences? Did not the Catholic church quit doing this when the stench became unbearable or just after they replaced the line of popes who dealt in God's business for money?

22 posted on 11/02/2012 11:55:45 AM PDT by xone
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies ]

To: wideawake
It's interesting that every account of the Luther story has him nailing his 95 theses to a church door, when there is zero evidence that this ever happened. What were you smoking when you made up that? Is this what Roman Catholic apologists think passes for "history?" Have you ever actually bothered to read the 95 Theses?

All historians of any repute, Roman Catholic or Protestant, agree that the 95 Theses began the process of Luther being stonewalled by the Roman Church authorities, not some personal spat with the discredited J. Tetzel.

Dr. Philip Melanchthon, who lived about 1/2 block from Luther, was a professor at Wittenberg University at the time--and was Luther's closest friend, co-reformer, and successor in leading the Lutherans after Luther died, said that Dr. Luther nailed the Theses to the door... That's pretty good eyewitness authority.

Nailing an announcement on the biggest door in town right off the town square, was a normal event--a lot like an office bulletin-board. Besides all that, the physical nailing is a minor point. The major point is that is was indeed the 95 Theses interference with the money trail...(for a VERY spend-thrift Pope) that got Luther in hot water.

Within 3 weeks Luther's Theses had been copied and recopied (including a version that actually goofed up the numbers...) and spread all over Germany. Without the printing press (then less than 50 years old) such a wide transmission of copies of a document would of been impossible.

I've been to Wittenberg, as I did graduate work there... and the Castle Church door is about the largest in town, and very prominent--a logical place to post an announcement, especially since tourists were arriving by the hundreds for the one of the biggest events in Wittenberg all year--the veneration of the relics in that same Castle Church, that next day, All Saints Day. Frederick the Wise had the largest relic collection outside of Rome.

Tetzel was soon arrested (probably for embarrassing his employers...Bishop Albrecht and Pope Leo X) after claiming that the plenary indulgence he was selling for those same employers....could give you forgiveness if you had raped the Virgin Mary herself...

Renaissance lover Leo was quickly spending the Roman Church into bankruptcy...and German money started to dry up with Luther's Theses, and later writings--hence the stern desire on Leo et al, to quash Luther and his kind....

All one needs to do is to follow the money trail, and the rejection of and persecution of Luther makes total sense.

49 posted on 11/02/2012 3:14:46 PM PDT by AnalogReigns (because the real world is not digital...)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies ]

Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article


FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson