Replies

You wrote:

“Why isn’t the Trinity specifically mentioned? Why isn’t the Bible specifically mentioned in the Bible? Why aren’t we specifically told in the Bible that Matthew wrote a gospel?”

You’re making a logical fallacy - false comparison. You’re attempting to equate non-Doctrinal terms with a Doctrinal term. While the Trinity (as a doctrine) is not called “the Trinity” in scripture, we see its definition over and over again in the term “Godhead” (Acts 17, Romans 1, Col 2). We see Jesus Christ telling his disciples to baptise them “in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost” (Mat 28:19-20). What we do not see is any reference, directly, to any ‘supernatural realm’ called Purgatory. Your other two rhetorical questions fail to substantiate your point by the same faulty reasoning.

“(sigh) You do realize that Jesus’ death is what powers Purgatory, right? Thus, your question mnakes (sic) no sense. Purgatory could not exist without Jesus’ death on the cross.”

(sigh) You do realize that Jesus’ death and resurrection is what NEGATES THE POSSIBILITY of “Purgatory”, right?

‘Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think any thing as of ourselves; but our sufficiency is of God;’ (2 Cor 3:5)
‘And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.’ (2 Cor 12:9)
...and...
‘And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:’ (Hebrews 9:27) Note that it doesn’t say, ‘after this, the Purgatory’ or anything like it.

If you really want to get into it, look at the theological reasons behind why God commanded the Old Testament Israelites to make sacrifices for their sins. They purified themselves, came to the high priest, confessed their sins, made their sacrifice, and went their way. They did NOT enter into a special area or ritual to then flense themselves or otherwise try to add anything to the atonement process. When Christ died on the cross, He became our sacrifice. We either accept that, or we do not. Christ, while He was dying for my sins and yours, uttered seven recorded statements. The last one was, “It is finished” (John 19:30), and not “I’m done here, but you still need to atone for your sins to be made perfect.”

This is, essentially, the same old ‘Catholic vs. other Christian beliefs’ argument that has existed since the the years after Christ’s ascension and the church began to spread. Christ is either God (i.e. part of the triune Godhead) or He is not. Therefore, His death was either all-sufficient, or it was not. Man, however, keeps wanting to add to this - hence the idea of Purgatory, because salvation by the remission of sins apparently doesn’t clean us up enough to stand before a Holy God. Guess what? NOTHING that we attempt to do, no “pennance”, no amount of time to correct our wrongs, no matter how sorry we are ... nothing can ever be enough to get us to a point where our righteousness is enough to stand in God’s presence. It is ONLY through Christ that we can accomplish this. Christ alone.

“I suggest you learn what Purgatory is before you post about it. Clearly, from your questions and suggestion, you do not know what it is.”

Clearly, I know all about what Purgatory is and what it isn’t. I know that it is an idea concocted by man, and I know that there is no scriptural basis for it.

“May God teach you enough humility to look up what a doctrine actually is before you start posting against it on the internet. That would make you not only more knowledgable, but less foolish looking.”

I pray that God continues to grant me more humility, and also more wisdom. I also pray that He continues to embolden me to confront unBiblical doctrines, and to encourage others to hear what the Bible says without seeking to add to it or to take away from it.

You wrote:

“You’re making a logical fallacy - false comparison. You’re attempting to equate non-Doctrinal terms with a Doctrinal term”

False. Purgatory is no more a doctrinal term than Trinity - less so in fact.

“While the Trinity (as a doctrine) is not called “the Trinity” in scripture, we see its definition over and over again in the term “Godhead” (Acts 17, Romans 1, Col 2).”

False. We see no definition at all in scripture. All we are told in scripture is that there is a Father, Son and Holy Spirit and all are divine. The rest we surmise, deduce. The same with purgatory. 2 Maccabees 12 gives us plenty to deduce from. As does 1 Corinthians 3.

“(sigh) You do realize that Jesus’ death and resurrection is what NEGATES THE POSSIBILITY of “Purgatory”, right?”

No, nor can you show that either. The idea that there’s no possibility of purgatory is bizarre. Jesus makes purgatory possible and our own nature makes it necessary.

You then make the same mistake as before. You forget that Jesus’ grace works in purgatory.

“The last one was, “It is finished” (John 19:30), and not “I’m done here, but you still need to atone for your sins to be made perfect.””

And if you would think you would realize that Jesus being finished with His sacrifice in no way meant WE WERE FINISHED receiving its benefits. It is amwazing to me how Protestants can always be so shortsighted as to think Jesus’ death meant the end of the benefits of Christ’s sacrifice for men and yet still believe - at the same time - that they recieve those benefits 2,000 years later. The illogic of that stance is stunning. Clearly, when Jesus was finished, we were not. He still helps us now.

“This is, essentially, the same old ‘Catholic vs. other Christian beliefs’ argument that has existed since the the years after Christ’s ascension and the church began to spread.”

No. Catholic and Christian are synonymous. This is a johnny-come-lately Protestant rebellion against the truth of Christ and the power of His grace.

“Christ is either God (i.e. part of the triune Godhead) or He is not. Therefore, His death was either all-sufficient, or it was not.”

And there you go. What is most frustrating about these “discussions” is the outright stupidity of Protestants. I’ll explain this again for your benefit: Christ’s sacrifice was ENTIRELY SUFFICIENT. Its sufficiency is what makes purgatory possible. Just as Jesus’s sacrifice was so sufficient that you and I can be saved by it 2,000 years later, it is so sufficient that those souls which need final theosis after death can receive it. For you to say this:

“”Christ is either God (i.e. part of the triune Godhead) or He is not. Therefore, His death was either all-sufficient, or it was not. [and therefore no purgatory can exist]”

is just as stupid as if someone said this:

“Christ is either God (i.e. part of the triune Godhead) or He is not. Therefore, His death was either all-sufficient, or it was not. Thus, it can only save people in Jesus’ own day”

“Man, however, keeps wanting to add to this - hence the idea of Purgatory, because salvation by the remission of sins apparently doesn’t clean us up enough to stand before a Holy God. Guess what? NOTHING that we attempt to do, no “pennance”, no amount of time to correct our wrongs, no matter how sorry we are ... nothing can ever be enough to get us to a point where our righteousness is enough to stand in God’s presence. It is ONLY through Christ that we can accomplish this. Christ alone.”

Exactly, hence purgatory. Christ’s grace powers purgatory. Not me, not you, only Christ’s grace. I don’t mind that you oppose the doctrine. What is frustrating is that you oppose a doctrine that exists only in your head and the heads of other people who also have no idea what they are talking about. Christ’s grace makes purgatory possible. Christ’s grace powers purgatory.

“Clearly, I know all about what Purgatory is and what it isn’t”

Clearly you don’t. Again, you keep claiming - falsely - that it is WE who make purgaory. Nope. It’s God. Christ’s grace. You’re insisting something is when it isn’t. You’re insisting we believe something we don’t actually believe. How can you now claim to know what you’re talking about? The hubris is stunning.

“I know that it is an idea concocted by man, and I know that there is no scriptural basis for it.”

You’re wrong on both counts.

“I pray that God continues to grant me more humility, and also more wisdom. I also pray that He continues to embolden me to confront unBiblical doctrines, and to encourage others to hear what the Bible says without seeking to add to it or to take away from it.”

It isn’t God who is leading you to oppose true doctrines by making your own false claims as to what they are.