The nice kids in the neighborhood left plenty of little Baby Ruths,
Posted on 10/31/2012 10:31:16 AM PDT by Zionist Conspirator
The oral law was written down in the Talmud, and was followed and cited by the Nazarine preacher many claim is the mosiach.
“Really? I don’t claim to be an expert on the matter, but I was raised in an Orthodox home, and my Grandfather (with whom my Mother and I lived) though not a Rabbi, was recognized as a Mashgiach, responsible for certifying that commercial kitchens in KC were keeping kosher. Growing up, we had chicken along with egg (as ingredients) in many meals.”
Yes, really. Note I said “a fair amount.” Not “most” or even a plurality. You’ll see it noted on menus in some restaurants in Israel, for example.
To put this in perspective, we did not trick-or-treat last night.
My wife, from a very Hasidic family, did put out a plastic bowel full of $50 worth of candy on our front porch, turned on the porch light, and had a sign saying “take one!”
The nice kids in the neighborhood left plenty of little Baby Ruths, two of which I had this morning for breakfast with my coffee.
“When in Rome, eat spatgetti,” as my father said.
Well, I always try to vote as if mine were the one that just might break a tie.
The only distinction is that Orthodox Jews and Orthodox Christians disagree on which individuals should be venerated.
If a Christian is an idolater for visiting Lourdes, a Jew is an idolater for visting the grave of the Baal Shem Tov.
Now widey, you know better than that. There is simply no comparison between Jewish veneration of the Sages and the chrstian "cultus" of the "saints." There are no formal, official prayers to the Sages nor are "icons" or statues of the Sages prayed before. No one has a "patron sage" nor are their "feast days" for them.
Any glance at a Siddur will show an unbridgeable gulf between Jewish and chrstian prayers.
That answer completely avoids the point that I brought up. How could this oral law, which you claim derives from Moses, have been faithfully transmitted up until the time at which the Talmud was written down, if the unfaithful Israelites barely even preserved the written law from the time of Moses? If it had not been for the miraculous intervention of God in preserving the Book of the Law in the Ark until the time of Josiah, the written law itself would have been lost! Yet, you would have us believe that this oral tradition was preserved MORE faithfully by these unfaithful generations?
As you know, ZC, Christians do not pray "to" saints, but ask saints to pray for them. Their names are invoked. And in the pious songs and prayers of Judaism, the prophets and sages are invoked as well.
or statues of the Sages prayed before.
Since Judaism eschews statuary, graves are typically used instead as special, physical places for the commemoration and veneration of the sages.
No one has a "patron sage"
Every community has "patron sages", usually the deceased rebbes of their community or the sages whose books are revered as valuable commentary in their communities.
nor are their "feast days" for them.
That would be news to the Ukrainian communities who are inundated with devout Hasidic pilgrims who come to venerate their sages on special days.
Any glance at a Siddur will show an unbridgeable gulf between Jewish and chrstian prayers.
A glance might create the impression of an unbridgeable gulf. An informed perusal would notice that a Siddur and a Christian Missal/Liturgy have very similar structures.
The core service opens with invocations, then blessings, then a doxology. There are readings from Scripture, there is often a homily, and a sequence. The most signal difference in the structure is that the Siddur has no sacrifice, while many Christian services do.
The similarities between the two stand to reason: the first generation of Christian worship often consisted of communal prayer in the synagogue followed by a sacrificial ritual in another location.
Either way, this is having a discussion with a dead person (or more than one)...otherwise known in the Bible...like the book of Isaiah, for example, as necromancy.
Praying is talking; praying is appealing...and what you describe is both talking and appealing.
The Bible makes it clear there's only ONE Mediator between the Father and us -- Jesus Christ (1 Timothy 2:5).
Not hundreds. Not thousands.
Incorrect. Those who have died in Christ now live in Christ. They are alive in heaven and are actually more alive than we here on earth, often dead in our sins, are.
Unless the promise of eternal life is false, invoking the saints is the precise opposite of necromancy.
I grabbed onto the(now-obvious)trolling and was hooked.
I overreacted. Played into his hand. I should have simply passed it by. My apologies.
However, why is the protection of his G-d not sufficient for Israel? Why must she rely on the $$$ billions in aid and military equipment and support - from what is a marginally Christian nation - in order to survive?
Eschew the aid of the Christian, place your entire life into the hands of G-d, Israel, and then I will see that your faith is something more than an excuse to annoy people. (not directed at you Cronos, but at the original poster)
Samuel in the Old Testament was a godly man; yet when the Witch of Endor consulted his spirit he was still referenced as a "ghostly figure" (1 Sam. 28:13).
Dead in body & alive in spirit still = consulting spirits, which in turn = consulting ghosts.
First "ghostly figure" is a mistranslation, and a fairly egregious one.
That is a perfect example, in fact, of a translator injecting his own personal bias into a translation.
Every other English translation renders the original Hebrew word (elohim) either accurately as "a god" or "gods" or inaccurately as "spirit" or "spirits" (the Hebrew word for spirit is nefesh, not elohim).
The modern sense of the term "ghostly" is completely alien to the text and was invented out of whole cloth by the NIV "translator."
This event occurred before Christ gave the righteous eternal life - the righteous Samuel, along with the other patriarchs at that time, was one of the "spirits in prison."
Emphasizing this is the fact that Samuel was summoned against his will.
When a Christian invokes a saint, he is not summoning a fellow saint to appear before him and commanding him to perform tasks against his will. He is asking a fellow believer to pray for him.
Thanks for bringing this particular piece of eisegesis up.
The communion of saints is a fellowship of believers embracing one another in heaven and on earth. It has nothing to do with witches or ghosts.
The nice kids in the neighborhood left plenty of little Baby Ruths,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rox15lCFfi4
A non-Jew came to Shammai and said that he wanted to convert on condition that he would accept only the Written Law. Shammai, realizing that the non-Jew was mocking him, chased him away.
The non-Jew then went to Hillel with the same condition. The first day, Hillel taught him alef, bais, gimel, dalet. The second day, he began by calling the same characters tav, shin, raish, kuf. The non-Jew objected, “But didn’t you tell me yesterday that these were alef, bais, gimel, dalet?” Hillel responded, “You see that even the names and sounds of the letters can only be understood by an oral teaching. How much more must the Torah itself be understood only through the Oral Law.”
The non-Jew then began studying completely and
honestly.
++++++
Your answer to how the oral law was preserved is very easy to find with Google. If you are serious, you will use it.
ROFL.
You start posting on my Likud board in Hebrew, and we’ll talk.
“However, why is the protection of his G-d not sufficient for Israel?”
Well, it is.
But do you need the story of the Chabad Rabbi, the truck driver, the firetruck, and the boat?
Apparently, yes, I do, because I have no idea of what you are referencing.
I will be happy when Israel repents, returns to her G-d and eschews ALL foreign military alliances and gifts of weapons, technology, intelligence, infrastructure capability for projection of force, and financial aid. It is a sin for her to rely on anyone or anything other than G-d for her safety and for her prosperity. Strangely, I do not hear that point argued by those who claim to be G-d’s chosen people. Why is that?
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