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To: boatbums

The passage in Romans 13 says:

Let everyone be subject to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. 2 Consequently, whoever rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves. 3 For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong. Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and you will be commended. 4 For the one in authority is God’s servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for rulers do not bear the sword for no reason. They are God’s servants, agents of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer. 5 Therefore, it is necessary to submit to the authorities, not only because of possible punishment but also as a matter of conscience. 6 This is also why you pay taxes, for the authorities are God’s servants, who give their full time to governing. 7 Give to everyone what you owe them: If you owe taxes, pay taxes; if revenue, then revenue; if respect, then respect; if honor, then honor.


I agree with you but i some times wonder why paul said what he did unless he was saying it for the sake of having peace in Rome between the Christians and the roman government.


For rulers hold no terror for those who do right,

I can not see why Paul would say that at all, did Jesus do wrong? we know he did,nt and how about the killing of James and the one called Simon i think it was.

This shows that rulers often do not do what is right so i guess Paul was just trying to pacify the authorities, i have always had a problem with that one even though paul makes so much sense in most cases.


113 posted on 08/24/2012 10:41:54 AM PDT by ravenwolf
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To: ravenwolf
I can not see why Paul would say that at all, did Jesus do wrong? we know he did,nt and how about the killing of James and the one called Simon i think it was. This shows that rulers often do not do what is right so i guess Paul was just trying to pacify the authorities, i have always had a problem with that one even though paul makes so much sense in most cases.

Of course Paul was stating the truth of how a society is to work, with civil authorities instituting laws so that order is preserved and lawbreakers are punished. Anarchy is NOT an idea from God. As such, Paul, under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, tells believers how they are to conduct themselves so that they can live peaceful lives - he is NOT just giving his own "two cents" worth. That we have had unjust rulers in various times and places does not negate God's purpose for there to be laws that govern mankind and, as in this passage in Romans 13 shows, leaders are used by God to fulfill HIS purposes. Our responsibility to obey the laws of the land and respect authority is NOT unconditional, though, - God's law is above the laws of men - we are to obey God rather than man if and when it comes to that. Just like the apostles and early Christians did not obey the laws that forbid them from preaching the gospel because those laws went against the commands of God.

I really am peeved that the Republican establishment has once again - think Dole, McCain, Romney - given us a mediocre, wishy-washy candidate, but we MUST make sure Obama is not given another term so we will once again have to hold our collective noses and vote for the pseudo-RINO. I hope we learn a lesson this time so that we are better prepared in 2016 to offer America a strong and Conservative choice - maybe by then America will finally be ready.

124 posted on 08/24/2012 8:53:12 PM PDT by boatbums (God is ready to assume full responsibility for the life wholly yielded to Him.)
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To: ravenwolf

“I can not see why Paul would say that at all, did Jesus do wrong? we know he did,nt and how about the killing of James and the one called Simon i think it was.
This shows that rulers often do not do what is right so i guess Paul was just trying to pacify the authorities, i have always had a problem with that one even though paul makes so much sense in most cases.”


Romans 13 closely echos Christ’s own words here:

Matthew 22
17 Tell us therefore, What thinkest thou? Is it lawful to give tribute unto Caesar, or not?
18 But Jesus perceived their wickedness, and said, Why tempt ye me, ye hypocrites?
19 Shew me the tribute money. And they brought unto him a penny.
20 And he saith unto them, Whose is this image and superscription?
21 They say unto him, Caesar’s. Then saith he unto them, Render therefore unto Caesar the things which are Caesar’s; and unto God the things that are God’s.
22 When they had heard these words, they marvelled, and left him, and went their way.

And here:

Joh_19:11 Jesus answered, Thou couldest have no power at all against me, except it were given thee from above: therefore he that delivered me unto thee hath the greater sin.

Romans 13 isn’t saying that we should not resist evil commands, such as worshiping a false God or committing a sin, as the law of God is higher. It is also worth noting that it is not so much the vile person who may have the seat that we ought to respect, but the seat of power itself that deserves respect. That is because God, through His providence, establishes nations across the world for the general good of humanity, insomuch that without a government there would be rampant crimes and anarchy. Governments are instituted among men for the purpose of common defense and enforcement of laws, as even the pagans had to a certain degree an understanding of God’s law by the dim light their philosophers and lawgivers provided. At the same time, of course, governments are also instituted as a punishment for their own people or for others. Evil rulers were often used to punish the Jewish people. In this sense, I suspect Obama is very much a punishment, and Romney, who has no morals, will be another punishment.

Look to the example of the Prophet Daniel in how he handled living under the dominion of Babylon. Also look at Christ who gave Himself up freely of His own choice, and of the Apostles who also gave themselves up (though, at other times, they escaped by the command and help of God). To be a Christian is to live by every word that proceeds out of the mouth of God. No matter how bad things get for you, always know that God is faithful and in control.


136 posted on 08/24/2012 11:00:46 PM PDT by RaisingCain
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