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To: NYer

I am not a Catholic and not even particularly religious
so maybe someone could direct me to Biblical scripture
which directs secular governments in the handling of the
poor and indigent. I’ve always believed that the Bible
instructs the individual and, maybe, society in general
in the treatment of the poor and weak but that liberals
have managed to shift that responsibility to government
because they are lazy, blackhearted bastards.

Apologies for using “Bible” and “bastards” in the same
sentence if anyone is offended.


4 posted on 08/12/2012 3:30:16 PM PDT by Sivad (Nor Cal Red Turf)
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To: Sivad
Read the link with the word "Holiness" in it. Might give you some idea, although not totally biblical.

The other Ryan: the candidate’s wife, Janna
Paul Ryan, Joe Biden, and Liberal False Equivalence
Ryan as VP Pick Continues Election Year Focus on Catholicism
Paul Ryan Faces Left-Wing Religious Attack
Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Holiness (Paul Ryan)
Paul Ryan: Midwesterner, Catholic, intellectual

5 posted on 08/12/2012 3:41:09 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: Sivad

Look at the Old Testament and how the king was expected to be responsible for his subjects...which means that he was responsible for stability, defending them against enemies, and doing his best to offset disasters (plagues, famines). And the just man or ruler has always had the responsibility to care for the widow and orphan.

Obviously, Christians have this obligation to an even greater extent, and so does a Christian ruler, and you will see that St. Paul mentions this.

That’s not the same as a socialist welfare state, however, and that’s where people get confused. As the author says, the Church blesses no particular form of government or economy (although those that violate the rights of the individual would clearly be excluded, which means that Marxism is beyond the line). Christianity is directed at the individual, who can believe and act as a Christian no matter what his circumstances or what government is in power.


7 posted on 08/12/2012 3:55:05 PM PDT by livius
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To: Sivad

No problem, for me, at least. The Bible pulls no punches when making a point. Neither should we. In the 25th chapter of 1st Samuel, soon-to-be-king David and his men protected the flocks and herds of a wealthy (skinflint) rancher named Nabal. A short time later, when David and his merry men had come on hard times, David sent a few men to Nabal to request a little something to eat to get them through the rough patch, and they were rudely rebuffed by Nabal. David strapped on his Colt 45 ACP, told his men to do the same, and vowed mayhem upon Nabal and all his MALE employees.

1Sa 25:21 Now David had said, Surely in vain have I kept all that this fellow hath in the wilderness, so that nothing was missed of all that pertained unto him: and he hath requited me evil for good.
1Sa 25:22 So and more also do God unto the enemies of David, if I leave of all that pertain to him by the morning light any that pisseth against the wall.

By vowing to kill everyone on the ranch who pisseth against the wall, he was indicating the males. But Nabal’s wife Abigail got wind of what her stingy husband had done, loaded up a convoy of donkeys with choice foods, and headed down the pike to intercept David and deflect him from his intended mission; which she was able to do.

When her old man, Nabal heard what Abigail had done he flew into such a rage that he dropped dead! Shortly thereafter, Dave married Abby, became owner of the ranch, lock, stock and barrel; and they all lived happily ever after.


9 posted on 08/12/2012 4:18:54 PM PDT by Tucker39 ( Psa 68:19Blessed be the Lord, who daily loadeth us with benefits; even the God of our salvation.KJV)
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To: Sivad
Check these links -- I'm sure there are Biblican references or I wouldn't have saved them, or in some cases posted them.

The Spiritual Works of Mercy [Catholic Caucus]
The Corporal Works of Mercy [Catholic Caucus]
Lists Every Catholic Should be Familiar With: The 7 Spiritual Works of Mercy
Lists Every Catholic Should be Familiar With: The 7 Corporal Works of Mercy
Catholic Caucus: Spiritual Works of Mercy
Introduction to the Corporal and Spiritual Works of Mercy
The Spiritual Works of Mercy
The Corporal Works of Mercy
Lest We Forget - The Corporal Works of Mercy & The Spirtual Works of Mercy/A>
Corporal and Spiritual Works of Mercy

10 posted on 08/12/2012 4:24:53 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: Sivad
Apologies for using “Bible” and “bastards” in the same sentence if anyone is offended.

No problem. I do it all the time.

13 posted on 08/12/2012 6:41:01 PM PDT by Jeff Chandler (Whatever a homosexual union might be or represent, it is not physically marital. - F.Cardinal George)
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To: Sivad; livius
I know we're going to have LOTS of similar discussions between now and November (and beyond!) but let me just get my 2 cents' worth in now.

First of all, a "prudential" judgment is a judgment between competing good things, and a choice between the "good, better, best" way to do it. HOW? is the key word. (The question of "evil" or "moral absolutes" doesn't come in play here, because one is never allowed to choose evil, "NOHOW".

So the question is, how can the we deal with the hungry, poor, sick, unemployed, natural disaster survivors, victims of war and crime, etc.?

"Kill them all" is obviously wrong; "Ignore them all and let them starve/bleed to death" etc. is also wrong, because there is not just a (negative) moral imperative to not kill them, there is a (positive) moral imperative to make sure they're cared for somehow.

That's where the "HOW" comes in.

The Catholic Churh teaches (when it's teaching its own doctrine correctly!) that thuis must be handled under the principle of "Subsidiarity," which means everything is to be handled by the smallest, lowest, or least centralized authority capable of addressing that matter effectively.

That's the principle.

It should start with individuals and their families, and then their parish, church, charitable groups, and also private fraternal and philanthropic organizatons, labor groups, business partnerships, professional assocations, for-profit enterprises, local governments, city, state, region, etc.

The direction of responsibility is:

Some responsibilities go to cenralized government; but only when smaller, more local, more voluntary efforts have proven to be inadequate. For instance, national defense, foreign and miltiary policy, response to huge environmental or disster threats, etc.

That's the framework, anyhow. How it all gets sorted out? That's a lifeime job.

15 posted on 08/13/2012 7:46:02 AM PDT by Mrs. Don-o
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