Posted on 07/11/2012 5:53:57 AM PDT by Colofornian
(ThyBlackMan.com) If you remember during the 2008 Presidential election, there was a strong effort to try to expose the faith of then Senator Obama. Many tried to label him an extremist because of his connection with the Rev. Dr. Jeremiah Wright.
I am curious to know if Mitt Romney will receive the same type of treatment given the lack of knowledge that most Americans have about the Mormon faith. I think that faith must be on the table since it was a factor in the previous election. Perhaps the reason it has not be raised is because the GOP leaders know that up to 25% of their base absolutely will not vote for a Mormon regardless of his credentials.
Let’s take a look at some of the beliefs of GOP Presidential Candidate, Mitt Romney Mormon’s faith. All of the information provided was taken from the Mormon Faith Tenets.
According a Christian Post article,” What do Mormons Believe? Ex-Mormon speaks out, October 18, 2011 by reporter Devenish the following items were cited about Mormon beliefs:
I took the time to itemize some of the different beliefs that Mitt Romney believes in to show that he is not a perfect candidate just because he seemingly names the name of Christ. We have to be careful with the Trojan Horses the GOP sends our way in the name of religion.
I challenge all of the African American pastors to consider if they want to vote for someone who believes totally different from what they preach every Sunday. If you can vote for Mitt Romney with a clear conscience knowing his religious beliefs, his insensitive policies that do not benefit the African American community then go for it. If you have reservations, then you must consider our current commander and chief.
Staff Writer; Kevin M. Jackson
Call it a conditioned response if you will.
The word “bashing” has been used exhaustively on the RF, along with the word “hate” to describe FReepers and the debates on Mormonism.
Words mean things.
Are we “exposing” (per the article) or “bashing” per your comment/question?
Keep in mind, the discussions and debates on Mormonism vs. Christianity here on FR pre-date the current Presidential election by a number of years. This is nothing new.
Whether or not you contributed to F.R. in the past has nothing to do with it, you clearly stated your reason for withholding your donations now and that displayed your “character” for all to see.
My point stands about the fact that you think withholding your donations to influence F.R. policy is a valid way to express your opinion and that’s from your own words in your prior post.
You remain a,”FReeloader”, not because you can’t give but because you won’t, because the owner of this site has a different point of view than yours.
You say that you and others influenced church policy with the threat of withholding money giving to the church, it won’t work here as the owner has integrity. If he ever betrayed that integrity, I’d quietly fade away, not threaten to or actually withhold my donations and then have the audacity to brag about it here.
And these teachings impact you how, precisely? Do you feel that the beliefs of a small (relatively) sect will cause others to see your vastly more mainstream beliefs as suspect?
Yes, faith is shown by works, as in the manifestations of my faith shows in my work.
Work however, is not required for Grace.
Work comes after Grace, not before or in conjunction with or required as Grace is unconditional.
How unfortunate for me and any other reasonable minded person who finds themself funneled here through no fault of their own.
Let me get out of The Harpy Nest just as fast as I can.
I vote with my money. I copied Jim, whom I respect, because I think there are those on this site who are here to tear Romney down, no matter if he’s on the right side of an issue. Jim said it himself, awhile back. He’s not a Romney supporter, which I respect, but let’s not go out of our way to tear him down (I’m paraphrasing). But, nothing has changed in my opinion. Even when Romney does something good or right, he gets dismantled by the same folks here. He gives a good speech to the NAACP, and he gets trashed by some for something that isn’t related to the speech, or the debate as to whether he should have been there in the first place.
Then there’s the regularly posting of dubiously sourced articles for the sole purpose of destroying Romney, by the same group of people. I never thought that’s what FR was all about. Just my opinion. I’ve been around long enough.
Really, wondering - mind reading pretty sure is not something you are permitted to do on the religion forum.
And very impolite to not ping someone you are misrepresenting and denigrating.
As someone who was alive and aware during the 1960’s I remember no one talking about Kennedy being a Catholic, everyone talked about his philandering, though.
There’s a way to avoid the religion forum. Copy and paste this URL and create a short cut on your desk top:
http://www.freerepublic.com/tag/news-forum/index
When you click the icon you created, it will take you to, “News/Activism” every time, avoiding the dreaded “everything”.
Works for me.
False
Mormons LITERALLY turn THE "original 'sin'" into an "upward fall..." -- for they believe (a) was the ONLY route they could become gods; and (b) was the ONLY route they could become parents.
Therefore, Mormons have the absolute wacky understanding that the world's evils were something the Mormon god wanted man to do:
The Lds church in one of its priesthood manuals calls the Fall a "Great Blessing" while one of its general authorities, "apostle" Dallin Oaks, wrote: "Some Christians condemn Eve for her act, concluding that she and her daughters are somehow flawed by it. Not the Latter-day Saints! Informed by revelation, we celebrate Eve's act and honor her with wisdom and courage in the great episode called the Fall." ("The Choice that Began Mortality" Liahona, 2002)
Only in Mormonism are wars, murders, hate, idolatry, racism, rape, incest, sexual abuse, lust, theft, and other consequences of the fall a blessing to be "celebrated."
Thanks kindly, graybeard, I appreciate that tip. There is nothing in this particular forum for me.
There was talk about him “taking orders” from the Pope (maybe from the Nixon camp?). He actually gave a statement how he would not let the Pope dictate to him (or something like that).
I won't try to pretend I know how every Mormon applies grace vs. merit to their lives...but we can take a look at Book of Mormon passages and make a few surface conclusions:
Q. According to the Book of Mormon, who initiates grace -- man or God?
A. Man
Q. Where is that found?
A. Helaman 12:24 and 2 Nephi 25:23
And may God grant, in his great fulness, that men might be brought unto repentance and good works, that they might be restored unto grace for grace, ACCORDING TO THEIR WORKS. (Hel. 12:24)
If grace is "merited" "according to...works" -- then, sorry, "grace" is no longer "free." It's been turned on its head & 100% redefined. (Just try teaching your kids to merit their birthday & Christmas "gifts" "according to their works.")
...for we know that it is by grace that we are saved, AFTER ALL WE CAN DO. (2 Nephi 25:23)
And here, grace only kicks in like some afterburner on a rocket after you've used all your own fuel to get to a certain location. Tell us, what Mormon would actually have the gall to say to God, "Lord, I've done EVERYTHING I could possibly do. Spiritually. Physically. Emotionally. Mentally. Relationally. Etc. I've 'initiated' it, Lord, for your grace" ???
Oh, I get it.
Duh!!
You are apparently a corporation.
...here are two 1:1 correlation LDS teachings I vehemently disagree with:
Grace is granted to men proportionately as they conform to the standards of personal righteousness... (LDS apostle Bruce McConkie, Mormon Doctrine, p. 339)
No, it isn't, Bruce!! Men don't force God's gracious hand!!! (Can you imagine a Mormon leader saying, “An earthly father's Christmas gifts are granted to their children proportionately as they conform to the family standards of personal righteousness”? That would be an outrageous conclusion!) Yet LDSaints don't seem to bat an eyelash over this kind of misunderstanding as to what grace is!
And then the second LDS doctrinal reference:And when we obtain ANY blessing from God, it is by obedience to that law upon which it is predicated. (D&C 130:21)
Once again, the Mormons force God's hand of blessings by pointing to their obedience as the trigger of those blessings, NOT as God's lovingkindness or provision or mercy or grace!
Re: grace, I can say: “Paul said grace saves; not works; if it were works, we could boast about how our own works saved us” -- a paraphrase of Ephesians 2:8-9. “Besides that, no Biblical scholars debate what “grace” means. It means “gift” (as in something rec'd for free) So my questions to you are:
“Why do you keep trying to pay for that which is given freely?
Why do Mormons adhere to McConkie's proportionate tit-for-tat payback grace? (as if those 2 contradictory terms could even ever be used without totally distorting language).
Why do Mormons believe in a religion that says only your obedience prompts God's blessings? -- D&C 130:21.
Well, I have no memory of that ever happening.
Maybe different parts of the country focused on different things about Kennedy.
What I heard was constant talk of his philandering and some talk about the fact so few people liked the Kennedy clan in general.
Previous thread excerpt #1:
So before Smith got it wrong in 2 Nephi 25:23, at least got it right both in 10:24 in that chapter and parts of 2:4-8: “Salvation is free…And by the law no flesh is justified…Behold, he offereth himself a sacrifice for sin, to answer the ends of the law, unto all those who have a broken heart and a contrite spirit; and unto none else can the ends of the law be answered. Wherefore, how great the importance to make these things known unto the inhabitants of the earth, that they may know that there is no flesh that can dwell in the presence of God, save it be through the merits and mercy, and grace of the Holy Messiah, who layeth down his life…” (2 Nephi 2:4-5, 7-8)
2 Nephi 10:24: “Wherefore, my beloved brethren, reconcile yourselves to the will of God, and not to the will of the devil and the flesh; and remember, after ye are reconciled unto God, that it is ONLY IN AND THROUGH THE GRACE OF GOD THAT YE ARE SAVED.
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Thread excerpt #2:
Godzilla brought Moroni 10:32 to my attention, I wrote (thread excerpt #2):
BoM anti-grace passages:
* 2 Nephi 25:23: ...ye are saved by grace, AFTER ALL YOU CAN DO." (2 Nephi 25:23)
* Helaman 12:24: "...may God grant, in his great fulness, that men might be brought unto repentance and good works, that they might be restored unto grace for grace, according to their WORKS." (Helaman 12:24) * Moroni 10:32: “Yea, come unto Christ, and be perfected in him, and deny yourselves of all ungodliness; and IF ye shall deny yourselves of ALL ungodliness, and love God with all your might, mind and strength, THEN is his grace sufficient for you, that by his grace ye may be perfect in Christ; and if by the grace of God ye are perfect in Christ, ye can in nowise deny the power of God.”
Smith altered the Biblical gospel by claiming in the Book of Mormon that the mainstream teaching for almost 1,000 years in the Americas was a doctrine of the gift of grace only coming AFTER we fulfilled God's legalistic checklist. He said before grace kicked in, we needed to:
* Do "all you can do" (2 Nephi 25:23, supposedly almost 600 years before Christ)
* Do "works" (Helaman 12:24, supposedly 6 B.C.)
* "Deny yourselves of all ungodliness, and love God with all your might, mind, and strength," (Moroni 10:32, supposedly written 421 A.D.)
If you did all this, Smith said, you thereby would "earn" grace -- thereby turning the meaning of both "grace" and "gift" on its head!
Anybody failing of doing "all they can do" (emotionally, physically, spiritually, relationally)...or not doing whatever "works" are required...or failing to love God "with all your might, mind, and strength"...or not denying yourselves of "ALL ungodliness"... sorry...Mormon grace doesn't kick in for you!
...You simply, per Smith's Book of Mormon, are not eligible for God's grace!
Since rarely do people heal themselves to go to see the physician to get well, Mormons have it all turned around!!!
Clearly, Joseph Smith did not read or agree with Jesus' words in Matthew 5:31-32:
31And Jesus answering said unto them, They that are whole need not a physician; but they that are sick. 32I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.
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Sorry, IWONDR...but these last three postings of mine shows you HAVE a LOT of boning up to do on Mormonism.
ALL: Let's just go to the source -- the Lds published book, Mormon Doctrine, since IWONDR shows again & again he can't get things straight:
Q How many (true) gods are worshiped according to their LDS apostle's "Mormon Doctrine" 1966 book?
A Three according to the Mormon definition of Heavenly Father and Jesus and the Holy Ghost being three separate gods): "Three separate personages--the Father, Son and Holy Ghost--comprise the Godhead...To us, speaking in the proper finite sense, these three are the only gods we worship." (Mormon Doctrine, by Lds "apostle" Bruce McConkie pp. 567-577, 1966 edition)
For those who wonder why IWONDR can't get basic "math" straight -- 3 vs. 1 -- well...
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Prayer. And then be prepared to join in the GOP Mutiny. If we are going to steer the ship of state in the right direction we are going to need a new Captain. The Convention isn't done. We must DEMAND that Romney withdraw his name from the nomination and that he be replaced with a real honest conservative, not a phony knee jerk liberal who has no core convictions about anything other than his blood oath commitment to submit to the LDS Authority and his conviction that he will someday "high to Kolob" in his magic underwear and become a God like his Heavenly Father. (And you thought Scientology was weird).
Let the Mutiny begin.
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Bears repeating.
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