The Reflections of Brigham Young on the Nature of Man and the State [What Mitt's profs taught him]

BYU Studies ^ | 1962 | J. Keith Melville

[Colofornian]

The pre-mortal period is a period of organization, growth, and purposeful development...This organization of the spirits from the "intelligence" which is co-eternal with God is for the express purpose of exaltation, to become "Gods like himself..."...

...Brigham Young said:...The Lord has organized mankind for the purpose of increasing in that intelligence and truth...until he is capable of creating worlds on worlds, and becoming gods...Believing that "the power of choice of all intelligent inherit from the Gods of eternity...is innate."...

...Complete independence of action is an attribution of deity, and only those most valiant during their probation on earth who will be crowned as gods in the Celestial Kingdom will be unfettered.

Mormonism discovered in the individual a god in embryo: a being whose essence is progression and whose eternal existence as an intelligence demands freedom...

...From the human position he pragmatically accepted the constitutional justification of slavery. He also justified Negro servitude as a penalty resulting from the violation of the cosmic system of law. He believed that the curse began with Cain because Cain denied Abel his earthly posterity. Instead of killing Cain, the Lord placed a mark on him and his posterity, withholding the priesthood from the negroes until "all the other descendants of Adam have received the promises and enjoyed the blessings of the priesthood thereof." This curse was perpetuated through the lineage of Ham into the post-diluvian period, and Brigham Young accepted the additional curse of Ham's posterity to be the "servants of servants" until God decrees elsewise...

SNIP

Dr. Melville is associate professor of political science at Brigham Young University.

[P-Marlowe]

Ah yes, another attack Milt Rominy religion thread. ... Odd how predictable this is becoming. Would you even be posting LDS opposition threads if Milt was not running?

MHG, I'm quite taken back by your attitude. IIRC you were one of the original Inmans and you have been active on this forum in taking the LDS Church to task over its fabricated history and doctrines of demons.

Now that Mitt Romney is the apparent nominee for the GOP you have turned your guns on those of us who joined with you over the years to sound the alarm bells on the deception that is the LDS Church.

You know darned well that Colofornian would be posting Truth Files on the LDS Church no matter who the candidate for the GOP Nomination would be. Just because Mitt Romney has been chosen by the GOP-E to be the standard bearer for the party is certainly no reason for those of us who have concern not only for the souls of those trapped in this cult but for the souls of those yet to be trapped to cease from our appointed missions.

Your turnaround on the LDS issue is quite puzzling to me? Have you converted to the LDS Church? If not, then why are you carrying the water for them?

If so, then that would explain a lot.

I will not vote for Romney and it is not because he is a Mormon. It is because he is dishonest and because he has no principles and because he supported abortion and gay marriage and just a few weeks ago supported the idea of gays adopting children.

I think he will probably win the Presidency. Frankly if he wins the presidency then the MSM will turn on both the LDS Church and Romney and expose both of them for the hypocrites that they are. The LDS Church will most likely never benefit from Romney running as the GOP standard bearer. There is just too much stuff out there about their history and teachings that the MSM will glom onto and run with.

None of the stuff that Colofornian or Greyfoxx39 or Zakeet or Elsie posts on this forum is secret information. It is all out there and the MSM and Obama's surrogates will probably start using it en-masse after the GOP Convention.

Don't blame the Inmans that Romney is stuck in a strange non-Christian cult. That is Romney's choice and if it is an albatross around his neck, then he can repent of his adherence to doctrines of demons and turn to the real Christ like most of us Inmans did.

Again MHG, I am sorely disappointed that you have decided to carry the water for the LDS Church and try to prevent the Truth from coming out. The Truth will out. That is just the way it is. If the Truth hurts Romney's chances for election, then that is the price America and the GOP will have to pay for being unwise and choosing a chameleon candidate with no moral or political compass who believes that someday he will go to Kolob and become a God.

[MHGinTN]

See number 38 above ... sheesh!

[MHGinTN]

These are not Obamao supporters. THAT specious insult is not called for. These are conservative Christians, but it appears —at least to me— that they have been manipulated into attack dogs toward Mitt Romney. Every thread on the ISM gets posted int he religion forum but immediately used to attack Romeny for his Mormonism. I don’t like the guy either, he’s a flaming liberal, wet-finger-in-the-wind man of deceits. But he isn’t the commie besoiling the White House wirth a gaggle of Chicago-style criminal thugs regulating everything in order to collapse the American eceonomy. How will Romney govern? That is entirely up to how much pressure we the people put on his sorry liberl butt. However, by twisting the religion forum into an attack Romney forum, Freerepublic has been manipulated into an assistant to the Obamao campaign doing what we thought only the media scum were low enought to do.

[MHGinTN]

Feel bigger now, doctor?

[ejonesie22]

I am still a bit confused, is the ISM now off limits until after the election? Did God call a truce on heretical teachings and such in deference to Earthly needs?

I have not seen a tremendous difference in the nature of posting. What I have seen is folks who have consigned themselves with Mitt's inevitable candidacy now focus on worldly issues whilst also more visibly chastising those still focused on the larger picture, the situations that have lead us to this worldly state, the dilution and weakening of Christianity in America. Sadly some of this chastisement has come from those Christians once aligned or at least tolerant (how that works I do not know but its part of the Oprah Christian world view I guess) with us in some form or fashion. I understand, Obama is a very formidable boogieman, one I too fear and have no desire to see return.

I think back to the Movie "A Man for All Seasons" when after being betrayed by his former pupil and friend Richard Rich, Sir Thomas Moore says "Why Richard, it profits a man nothing to give his soul for the whole world... but for Wales?"

In this case for many Conservatives here and on TBL among others I would replace "Wales" with "Romney"with Conservatism being betrayed..

I may have to vote for him, but I will not do so willingly for strictly political reasons. His record speaks for itself and I fear him in some ways as much as Obama, though on the whole Obama has far more potential for damage if not reigned in by a Republican congress. But the fact that Romneycare alone exists gives me pause.

As far as the LDS, simply because the man on the ticket is a member does not make the faith legitimate in the eyes of God or the knowledgeable Christian. Things of this world shall pass, but the battle of heaven never ceases for our convenience. That many seem to think that with their "well it ain't Islam" and such are why we are where we are as a nation, there is not hierarchy of right or wrong among faiths, you are either walking in the light or sitting in the dark. What the practitioners of any faith here on Earth do is for man to deal with, and do so with God as an ally not an after thought...

[P-Marlowe]

See number 38 above ... sheesh!

38 above is just a bunch of baloney.

Like it or not Mitt Romney is the most visible adherent to MormonISM in the world today. More people are aware of the fact that Mitt Romney is a Mormon than are aware of the fact that Thomas Monson is his Religion's official Prophet.

So naturally any expose of MormonISM is going to be impacted by the fact that the most visible manifestation of that Religion is currently running for President of the United States.

So naturally any and all references to LDS Doctrine and History are going to have a political effect because Mitt Romney is an adherent to those peculiar doctrines and beliefs.

FWIW some of my family members and other church members were blatant racists who freely used the "N" word in a very derogatory manner when referencing black people while at church functions. These were the adults. So this thread is quite important both religiously and politically. Did Mitt Romney adhere to the blatantly racist doctrines taught by the church prior to the "Revelation" that God decided to relent to the Prophet and stop being the blatant racist that He apparently was prior to 1978? The Kimball revelation clearly stands for the proposition that GOD was the racist and that the forward thinking Mormon Prophet convinced GOD of the error of HIS ways.

MHG, I stand by what I said. You are carrying the water for the LDS Church apparently based solely on your fear that to tell the truth about what Romney believes might result in Obama being re-elected. Well whether or not Romney is going to be elected is really out of my hands and your hands since God has already ordained who HE has chosen to lead us for the next 4 years. If God wills it, then Romney will weather the storm of the criticism of his cult. If God wills otherwise, then he won't be the next president of the United States (but you can be assured that he might be the next President of the LDS Church).

Whatever it is, I am dismayed that you have chosen to carry the water for Mitt and his Religion on this forum.

Carry on.

[MHGinTN]

‘CArry the water for LDSinc’ ... what an arrogant insult you’ve posted! In post #38 I make it very clear that I consider MormonISM to be anti-Christian. Yet you feel the need to insult me by mischaracterizing so it fits the perspective you WANT to hold. So be it as your perspective. Go in Peace, brother.

[Elsie]

I doubt there are many Mormons on Free Republic. With all the bashing it’d be akin to the self-hating Jews who inhabit DU and my guess is that Mormon’s are a little less inclined to be so unstable.

Any place that a MORMON has the nerve to start spouting any of their HERESY will turn in to a BASH.

Bold
ANTIs
Spotlighting
Heresy

[P-Marlowe]

‘CArry the water for LDSinc’ ... what an arrogant insult you’ve posted!

Since you decided to split hairs on my post, can I conclude that you are, in fact, admitting to be carrying water for Mitt Romney?

Yet you feel the need to insult me by mischaracterizing so it fits the perspective you WANT to hold

LOL!

Just what have you been doing with the Inmans? Need I say speck/log?

[MHGinTN]

I expect you will see things a way that fits what you want to believe. That does not mean you are correct. Is this the religion forum or the smear Mitt with his religion forum? There seems to be little difference at this point. This is what I expected from the sleazy media, to try and assassinate the man by tying him to all the heresies and blasphemies in MomronISM. But I didn’t expect it from Freerepublic, or from several I have in the past thought of as friends. So it has come to this, fabricating a smear with which to try and ridicule into silence. Nice try

[P-Marlowe]

Is this the religion forum or the smear Mitt with his religion forum? There seems to be little difference at this point. This is what I expected from the sleazy media, to try and assassinate the man by tying him to all the heresies and blasphemies in MomronISM. But I didn’t expect it from Freerepublic, or from several I have in the past thought of as friends.

From what I recall you are not now nor have you ever been a Mormon. I also suspect that being from TN you probably don't even know any Mormons. I am a 5th Generation Mormon who escaped from the cult and found Christ. That has been the experience of many of the Inmans that you now have disassociated yourself from.

I don't think you realize how high of a mucky-muck Romney is in the LDS Church, but he is about as high as you can get without being a general authority. As a matter of fact as far as the LDS Propaganda machine is concerned Mitt Romney is the public face of MormonISM. Mitt Romney is to MormonISM as Tom Cruise is to Scientology. Nobody knows the name of the Scientology leader, but everyone knows that Tom Cruise is a Scientologist.

If Mitt Romney were a Scientologist, then his bizzare beliefs would be legitimate fodder for political discourse.

Romney adheres to all the demonic doctrines of Mormonism so you can't separate the man from his Religion. If Romney were a lapsed Mormon, like Rubio, then his Religion would not have any bearing on his political position. But Romney is a Temple Worthy Mormon, which alone puts him in the small minority of Mormon believers. Romney is not just ANY Mormon, he is the epitome of what the Mormon church wants to portray itself so that the mormon Church can pretend to be just another Christian sect.

So you can't give him a pass on his religion. He is the face of Mormonism. He is the most famous Mormon alive today. He has sworn an oath to uphold the General Authorities of the LDS Church above all other earthly powers.

Maybe you can overlook that fault. I can't. The Mormon Church defines who Romney is. Just as my religious beliefs define who I am and who you are.

[greyfoxx39]

Marlowe, your #41

Well said and past time for it to BE said.

[Tau Food]

It might have depended upon from whom it was delivered and why. We’ve expected the leftist commie media to do this exposing, but I really didn’t think it would be fed to them, with ‘hate Romney because he’s a Mormon’ written all over it from Freerepublic. And done under the auspices of our religion forum, too!

I want you to know that I don't hate Romney because he's a Mormon. I want you to know that I don't hate him at all.

I have been very disappointed to learn what I have learned about Mormonism here at Free Republic. Ugly, nasty anti-Christian quotes have been attributed to Mormon leaders. I must confess a hostility toward what Mormons call "plural marriage." And, I am repelled by the practice of forcing little girls to marry middle aged and elderly men. That just seems wrong to me - malum in se.

I know that Romney was in his youth a Mormon captive. I know that his father was born in a Mexican Mormon commune and, with his family, snuck into this country when Mexican anti-communists ran them off their commune.

So, I find it difficult to fault Romney for his Mormonism because he had the misfortune of being raised to believe that the precepts and practices of Mormonism are superior to those of Christianity. He really knows nothing else.

Although I see nothing inappropriate about considering religion among other factors in assessing a candidate for public office, I will be voting against Romney because he is a liberal.

[dragonblustar]

What really ticks me off is that the GOPe shoved Romney down our throats. It’s either Obama or the polished turd now. After Robert’s betrayal, I’ve just tossed in towel. I’m so damn sick and angry about the whole way our country is going down the hole.

I don’t know what to do. If I do vote for Romney now, I’m not going to delude myself that he’s some kind of savior. He’s nothing more that slick Rino willing to say anything to anybody. My only thought is to vote for him to get Dumbo out then work to replace the Rino. I don’t know what other plan to follow......

[Tau Food]

When I was at BYU, I got kicked out of one class for explaining to the teacher that he confused the Immaculate conception and perpetual virginity of Mary in his diatribe against the Catholics (the professor was Roger Keller who is still there IIRC).

God for you!

There probably weren't many students with your courage.

[Artcore]

If you hadn't noticed, these same people whom you defend from my “specious insult” have, on numerous threads, called those of us who are supporting Mitt Romney as: “RINO’s”, “Romneybots”, “GOP-e’s” and a host of other untrue names. Thought they might like a taste of their own medicine. Also, their decision to NOT vote (or do a write-in) will indeed help Obama...that is a simple fact. Have you ever heard of sarcasm? Apparently not. I'm doing what Rush does: “Showing the absurd, by being absurd.

So please spare me your self righteous lectures.

[MHGinTN]

He is a liberal, and deceitful. Sadly most politicans are deceitful. This is a religion forum. On a political forum you would probably get a different posting from me, not an LDS debunking post. On the religion forum I will post opposition to MormonISM until a religion moderator tells me to stop. But to use the religion forum to make political attacks is something I would have expected from the media vermin but didn't expect that here on FR religion forum threads.

Imagine for a moment that some doubting Mormon opens up FreeRepublic .com and seeks deeper information on the ISM than he has been allowed to seek insitu of a Mormon world. He sees a thread title like this one and opens the thread only to discover the leadership of the thread are spending their learned material on the ISM to trash a political candidate for the presidency. Why would most of the posts be attacking Romney rather than exposing more data on the ISM? What, he/she might ask, is that what happens at FR, use religion to make political attacks? ... The learned Momronism victimhood gene kicks in and the seeker closes the thread and moves on, dismissing the discussion as just another sleazy political attack cloaked in religious differences.

If we agree that the ISM is a cult and is not leading adherents to Salvation, then it would seem better to confine the religion forum to direct discussion of the ISM rather than commandeering it to make mostly political hay. I can see posting that Mitt Romney is a Mormon from birth, a member sworn into the faux melchizedek priesthood, etc. But posting such data would be the means to expose more about the ISM vagaries rather than as a bludgeon to assassinate Milt Rominy's political ambitions. Yet that twist is exactly what we see happening of late, the data on the ISM being used as an entry to attack the man for political empowerment, using the religion forum as the venue.

But that's just me and my naivete I suppose. Shirley these ardent chastisers now insulting me, ganging up to ridicule and high five each other, are hugh and series honorable folks not aware of the manipulation that appears to have occurred, right? I shall keep that thought in mind as I make the occasional visit to these ISM threads.

It's almost amusing though that the worst insult some can conger up is that I've been proselytized to the darkside, or taken it up to 'carry Mitt's water', ignoring of course the stated reason I'm opting out of the Inman club because I don't want the religion forum being used as a political atatck tank so I wouldn't be coming on these threads to carry a politician's water. I mean, such a silly accusation to make even as I post more examples of the heresies in the ISM. But that is the nature of folks when they seek to shut someone up that they feel is raining on their parade. [Now where did I put that ignore button I built the other day, when the queen of the Inmans first floated that stuff about me falling to the darkside?}

[MHGinTN]

;^) You might establish some creds on these threads by accusing me of 'self righteous indignation'. But I still suggest you try to not impugn their faithfulness to Christ just because you see them stumbling sometimes. I stumble too, but it isn't as often at this stage in life. Your millage may vary however. (That's a tax assessment term)

[SoConPubbie]

Since Milt Rominy (it rhymes with hominy, the tatseless corn product) appears to be the nominee of the republican party, oppsing little barry bastard commie in the general election, a subtle but now obvious change in use of the Religion forum and the material amassed to expose the ISM has arisen, where the previous 'campaign' was about opposing the ISM but is now twsited to be used solely to attack Romney, and occasionally to impugn Mormons, the adherents to the ISM. The adherents are not our enemy, well, not in the past, because they are duped by a cult. But this distinction has been blurred for exploitative purposes and those dedicated to exposing the ISM have been duped into serving a political agenda using the religion forum.

OK, so you've made an accusation, now prove it with links and postings.

So far I haven't seen that behavior and more than likely, for reasons stated clearly on other threads, they've always been against Romney because he is a consistant and serial liar and a Progressive Liberal as his record clearly delineates.

[SoConPubbie]

But that's just me and my naivete I suppose. Shirley these ardent chastisers now insulting me, ganging up to ridicule and high five each other, are hugh and series honorable folks not aware of the manipulation that appears to have occurred, right? I shall keep that thought in mind as I make the occasional visit to these ISM threads.

The pity poor me suit you are wearing MHGinTN doesn't suit you and you are better than this behavior.