Posted on 06/13/2012 2:59:02 PM PDT by Gamecock
I believe in the Infallibility of the Roman Catholic Pope when speaking Ex Cathedra on matters of Faith and Morals.
Some thoughts on folks crossing the Tiber.
Horton?
Yeah, I remember when he got crushed in a debate on sola scriptura in front of a Protestant audience at an Evangelical church. Even that church admitted Horton lost.
Here’s the debate: https://store.patrickmadrid.com/what-still-divides-us-debate-mp3/
Horton was so embarrassed about his loss that he only played the Protestant side of the audio on his radio show.
It’s incredible that Roman Catholics in this era actually believe that. Do you know any Christian history other than what you’ve learned from other Roman Catholics?
“As Calvin counseled on the matter, Scripture alone is sufficient; better to limp along this path than to dash with all speed outside it.”
Now there’s an authority! His most ardent adherents were the first and last American witch-burners (outside Islam, of course). No, that surely was never his his intention; and no, he wasn’t wrong on everything. Just a whole lot more than an already 1600-year old Roman church. And, just an aside, his name wasn’t actually Calvin; it was Chauvin. The OED doesn’t go into it; but the Puritains could have written the book on chauvinists long before Nicolas Chauvin was born. Just sayin’.
When were Americans burning witches?
That being so would lead to the conclusion that any doctrine, however long held and cherished, must be examined by the light of Scripture. Any teaching of truth would also have to agree with other Scriptural truths or it would be drifting away from that infallible standard.
And such doctrines or teachings would by necessity be understandable to the instructed. One could not be “sanctified by the truth” and at the same time believe falsehood.
“The gospel of free grace “
Grace isn’t free - it cost the Savior his life.
It is offered completely apart from works and based entirely upon Christ’s eternal life, laid down to pay for sin.
Should I have said ‘America-located Calvinists’?
I believe the Reformers quickly found a doctrine of literal sola scriptura insufficient. Hence their creeds, confessions and their authors and editors. The Reformed equivalent of tradition and Magisterium.
You mean some Brits hanging a few witches?
Yes, indeed, Brits and a few Dutch who arrived with them. But ‘American’ or even ‘America’ isn’t the operative word here. It was used simply to demonstrate how far off the beaten path (the western hemisphere, in the 17th century, for goodness’ sake) Calvinists had strayed in pursuit of what they believed Calvin taught (part of which was sola scriptura), answerable to no higher authority than their own obviously faulty understanding of the scriptures.
Protestants did create the greatest nation that man has ever created though, so when you point out imperfections like a British town hanging a few witches before the United States even existed, you don’t need to smear America.
The fallacy here is to assume that the Protestant doctrine of "faith alone" is true in the first place. Even without recourse to Catholic teaching I find the Protestant position ridiculous and contrary to the Scripture.
Another fallacy is that Catholics do not honestly derive their teaching from Scripture. Any familiarity with Catholic theology would show that this untrue. So when faced with a Catholic interpretation of Scripture and a Protestant one, each claiming to be derived from Scripture, how is one to know the truth? Without the charism of infallibility granted to the Church by Christ himself, we would be hopelessly left with conflicting interpretation that could never claim greater authority than the other.
Then would you please show us from scripture proof of the bodily assumption of Mary? Maybe you could show us any positive comments from scripture about a vicar or substitute of Christ.
Christians created this greatest of all nations. Protestants disagreed with each other every bit as much as they disagreed with Rome which may well be why religious freedom ranked so highly. But, as of this moment, it seems only the Roman Church is still interested in protecting that particular freedom.
Lastly, if you can read ‘smear[ing] America’ into anything I’ve written here or anywhere else, you really may need an interpreter for scripture.
If Rome infallibly defines that she is assuredly infallible whenever she speaks in accordance with her infallibly defined (scope and subject-based) criteria, which means that her decree that she is infallible, is infallible, then she is assuredly incontestable infallible, and all the argumentation in the world cannot impugn her autocratic declaration.
You should also know that being the stewards and interpreters of Holy Writ, and being the recipient its promises of Divine presence, guidance, and perpetuation and having historical decent means you have assuredly infallibility, just as Israel's leadership did. (Lv. 10:11; Dt. 4:31; 17:8-13; Is. 41:10, Ps. 89:33,34; cf. Mt. 23:2 etc.)
And that such is needed for writings to be established as Divine Scripture, and thus none were until the church of Rome came along, and who thus also provided an infallible, indisputable complete canon over 1400 years after the last book was written.
And that such affirmed magisterium disallows the authority of an Itinerant Preacher who has not their sanction, (Mk. 11:28-33) who established His claims upon Scripture and the power of God it testifies to, (Jn. 10: 37; 5:36,39; Mt. 22:29; Lk. 24:44, etc.) and from reproving those by Scripture who sit in the seat of Moses, (Mk. 7:3-16), much less God preserving faith and fulfilling promises by raising up men from without the official magisterium to take their place. For that would create division, and could allow the same to happen to them in order for Scriptural truth and the people of God to be preserved.
Moreover, you should know that Sola Scriptura cannot be found in Scripture, even though it is abundantly evidenced to have been the standard for obedience and testing and establishing truth claims, and thus evidences and provides for writings being established as Scripture based upon their Divine qualities and attestation (thus most of Scripture was established as such by the time of Christ), as well as (according to principle) recognizing an absence of any like unto ot cessation
Furthermore, you should also know that rather than establishment and assurance of truth claims coming from Scripture and the attestation it promised, (Acts 2:14:-36; 4:33; 5:12; 7:1-53; 13:16-41; 15:6-21;17:2,11; 18:28; 28:23; Rm. 15:19; 2Cor. 12:12, etc.) as that requires fallible human reasoning, such assurance can only come from the assuredly infallible magisterium, which has assuredly infallibly declared its teaching is protected from that infirmity.
Finally, you should know that since you have no assuredly infallible interpreter for your supreme authority (Scripture), then you have divisions, even if overall there is a core unity, while Catholics really have Unity, even though RCs lack an assuredly infallible interpreter for their supreme authority, resulting in confusion even as to how many infallible pronouncements there are, and the meaning of both infallible and non infallible teachings, and who show greater disunity in many basic practices and moral views than evangelical type churches. And that Catholicism has many formal and informal divisions, the difference being one of degrees, based upon their infallible interpretation of Tradition, Scripture and History. See also 355 of 361
and Disagreements under different models of supreme authorityl
Horrors! Not only are his followers ardent witch-burners (though obviously very poor ones, since no one in the United States ever successfully burned a witch), but they have time-travel technology and are keeping it from the rest of us!
And, just an aside, his name wasnt actually Calvin; it was Chauvin.
How dare anyone Anglicize his name? Burn him in effigy!
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