I’m a Mormon, Not a Christian [Mega hit piece on Christians]

New York Times ^ | June 12, 2012 | David V. Mason

[greyfoxx39]

................... Mormons seem to be everywhere.

I want to be on record about this. I’m about as genuine a Mormon as you’ll find — a templegoer with a Utah pedigree and an administrative position in a congregation of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. I am also emphatically not a Christian.

-SNIP-

In addition, these Christians had to defend their use of additional scripture and their unconventional conception of God and explain why they were following a bumpkin carpenter from some obscure backwater. Early Christianity’s relationship with non-Jews was even worse. Roman writers frequently alluded to rumors about the cannibalistic and hedonistic elements of early Christian rites. One after the other, Christians went to the lions because they found it impossible to defend themselves against such outrageous accusations. They did eat flesh and drink blood every Sunday, after all.

Eventually, Christianity grew up and conceded that it wasn’t authentic Judaism. Lo and behold, once it had given up its claim to Judaism, it became a state religion — cannibalism notwithstanding — and spent the next 1,700 years getting back at all the bullies who had slighted it when it was a child.

-SNIP-

Whatever happens in November, I hope Mormonism eventually realizes that it doesn’t need Christianity’s approval and will get big and beat up all the imperious Christians who tormented it when it was small, weird and painfully self-conscious. Mormons are certainly Christian enough to know how to spitefully abuse their power.

[chesley]

How are we disagreeing?

[metmom]

By the way with regards to Catholics not eating meat on Friday, the Catholic Church does not claim, that the Scriptures say that you can't eat meat on Friday. The Church says that it is spiritually helpful to do penance every Friday to remind Catholics of the Sacrifice of Christ on the Cross. The normative way the Church has asked Catholics to do this is by abstaining from all flesh, meat on Friday as both an offering of penance to Almighty God for their failings and as a reminder of the Cross. Under present Church practice, Catholics may also substitute this abstention from meat with other acts of love/sacrifice as well.

WRT eating meat on Friday, if Scripture doesn't say it shouldn't be done, then why did the Church teach for so long that it was a sin to do it?

The Church never *asked* people to do it as penance. It was a dictate and Catholics were told it was a sin if they did.

There was no choice. It's not as innocuous as you're making it sound.

[IWONDR]

“This is about creating a conflict between Christians and Mormons so enough Evangelicals stay home on Election Day to keep Chicago Jesus in the White House.”

You are right...AND this is also about Colofornian et al on FR who have a greater fear of a mormon, be it Romney or any other, of becoming President of the US of A than allowing the Muslim-in-hiding from winning another term in office.

God Save America from 4 more years of BO.

[Elsie]

I don’t think we are. I was just reinforcing the point.

Some folks like to point out that OTHER religions do bad things, too; and I didn’t want to drift off in that direction.

[Elsie]

God Save America from 4 more years of BO.

Why should HE?

Are you still killing your unborn?

-- GOD

 

[Elsie]

Why should HE?

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Genesis 13:13

Now the men of Sodom were wicked and were sinning greatly against the LORD.

Genesis 18:20-21
20. Then the LORD said, "The outcry against Sodom and Gomorrah is so great and their sin so grievous
21. that I will go down and see if what they have done is as bad as the outcry that has reached me. If not, I will know."

Genesis 19:4-7
4. Before they had gone to bed, all the men from every part of the city of Sodom--both young and old--surrounded the house.
5. They called to Lot, "Where are the men who came to you tonight? Bring them out to us so that we can have sex with them."
6. Lot went outside to meet them and shut the door behind him
7. and said, "No, my friends. Don't do this wicked thing.

 

Psalms 12:8      The wicked freely strut about when what is vile is honored among men.

      More?

Isaiah 3:9   The look on their faces testifies against them; they parade their sin like Sodom; they do not hide it. Woe to them! They have brought disaster upon themselves.

2 Peter 2:13b  Their idea of pleasure is to carouse in broad daylight. They are blots and blemishes, reveling in their pleasures while they feast with you.

 

 

Ezekiel 16:49-50
49. "`Now this was the sin of your sister Sodom: She and her daughters were arrogant, overfed and unconcerned; they did not help the poor and needy.
50. They were haughty and did detestable things before me. Therefore I did away with them as you have seen.

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2 Peter 2

 1.  But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who bought them--bringing swift destruction on themselves.
 2.  Many will follow their shameful ways and will bring the way of truth into disrepute.
 3.  In their greed these teachers will exploit you with stories they have made up. Their condemnation has long been hanging over them, and their destruction has not been sleeping.
 4.  For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but sent them to hell,  putting them into gloomy dungeons  to be held for judgment;
 5.  if he did not spare the ancient world when he brought the flood on its ungodly people, but protected Noah, a preacher of righteousness, and seven others;
 6.  if he condemned the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah by burning them to ashes, and made them an example of what is going to happen to the ungodly;
 7.  and if he rescued Lot, a righteous man, who was distressed by the filthy lives of lawless men
 8.  (for that righteous man, living among them day after day, was tormented in his righteous soul by the lawless deeds he saw and heard)--
 9.  if this is so, then the Lord knows how to rescue godly men from trials and to hold the unrighteous for the day of judgment, while continuing their punishment.
 10.  This is especially true of those who follow the corrupt desire of the sinful nature  and despise authority.   Bold and arrogant, these men are not afraid to slander celestial beings;
 11.  yet even angels, although they are stronger and more powerful, do not bring slanderous accusations against such beings in the presence of the Lord.
 12.  But these men blaspheme in matters they do not understand. They are like brute beasts, creatures of instinct, born only to be caught and destroyed, and like beasts they too will perish.
 13.  They will be paid back with harm for the harm they have done. Their idea of pleasure is to carouse in broad daylight. They are blots and blemishes, reveling in their pleasures while they feast with you.

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But there IS hope!!!

1 Corinthians 6:9-11

 9. Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived:
     Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders
10. nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.
11. And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.

 

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If you could NOT change, you would be in most pitiful shape...

[RedMonqey]

1. I condemned NO ONE.
2. Especially about about something in the BIBLE.
3. It is MORMON 'scripture' and Prophet #2 that condemns them.
4. I gave no pass to anyone.

That is so absurd it's pathetic.

A quick glance of your posts shows no criticisms of any other faiths(with an exception of Islam, an easy target)

I particularly find it humorous that you fault Mormons for them believing their faith(no matter how absurd) as the way to Heaven when every religion believes their faith is the "one true Faith" and the way into Heaven.

Joesph Smith was a blasphemous kook but who were those who filled the ranks of the mob that attacked and murdered Mormons from state to state? "Good Bible believing Christians"

Could it be these were the so called Christians he was criticizing?

Mormonism isn't the only heretical Christian church to spread it's particular brand of Christianity nor is the only one to "cherry pick" the Scripture to forward its own ends.(Snake Handling? Wealth and prosperity Televangelists, anyone?)

Afraid to step on someones toes who's not an unpopular minority as the mormons?

[old republic]

WRT eating meat on Friday, if Scripture doesn't say it shouldn't be done, then why did the Church teach for so long that it was a sin to do it?

Jesus committed the keys of the Kingdom, to bind and loose in heaven and on earth to His Church. Consequently, the Church can bind it's members to do certain things under pain of sin. The Church has set apart certain days of the year as days of fasting and abstinence and bound most Catholics to observe them. (Ash Wednesday, Good Friday are currently the only two required days of fasting, while all Fridays of the year are days of abstinence (not eating meat). Thus Friday abstinence from meat is STILL required of Catholics, though at present the Church allows an individual to replace abstaining from meat with another penance if a person so chooses.

[old republic]

w about the BATHING in strong liquor? Is THAT part still right? (or WRONG??)

Both the modern and 1835 versions of the D&C claim that bathing in liquor is an acceptable practice. Though I wouldn't recommend it....

BTW, the Mormon position on drinking alcohol seems a bit odd. If you point out that even Jesus drank wine and that His first miracle was turning water into wine, they usually give you some sort of absurd justification that is not in any way based in reality. For instance, many Mormons and especially their missionaries will often claim that wine was really just grape juice back then and so it was ok to drink it back then. (A patent lie.) (Mormons also ignore the fact that Joseph Smith drank liquor even after he received the Word of Wisdom, and the LDS's own scriptures say that its ok to use wine in their Sacrament meetings....a strange contradiction, I suppose.)

[old republic]

The Church never *asked* people to do it as penance. It was a dictate and Catholics were told it was a sin if they did.

I said that the normal way the Church has asked Catholics to do penance is to abstain from meat. This refers to the present time. The Church today STILL asks its member to not eat meat on Fridays, though it allows them to substitute this practice with some other penance. The ability of a person to substitute the penance with something else under present law is why the use of the word "asked" in my sentence was preferable.

You are referring to the older, stricter law in force before the promulgation of the 1983 Code of Canon Law. The older law REQUIRED all relevant Catholics to not eat meat at all, no exceptions or substituting the practice with some other penance. As for the doctrinal justification for this practice, Jesus granted his Church the keys of the Kingdom and the power to bind and loose on heaven and on earth. The Church may use this power to bind its members to do certain things such as fast, pray, or attend Church at certain times.

[Elsie]

A quick glance of your posts shows no criticisms of any other faiths(with an exception of Islam, an easy target)

A quick glance of the title of this thread shows...

I’m a Mormon, Not a Christian [Mega hit piece on Christians], and yet YOU are trying everything you can to try to move the focus away from MORMONism.

The dog that howls is the one that was hit.

[Elsie]

Mormonism isn't the only heretical Christian church to spread it's particular brand of Christianity...

Well; you DO acknowledge the TRUTH of MORMONism!

MORMONism is about as 'christian' as the religion called Black Muslim is Islamic; but BOTH are heresies compared to the host they've parasitically latched onto.

I'm sorry if my focus is ENTIRELY on MORMONism, but the other groups you want 'bashed' on my watch will just have to get their OWN candidate in the race first.

Tell ya what.

Instead of complaining that I am not exposing those groups; why don't YOU do it!

You have a LOT more time available than I; for mine is mostly all used exposing the soft underbelly of MORMONism.

[Elsie]

That is so absurd it's pathetic.

A quick glance of your posts shows no criticisms of any other faiths...

Then you should be able to QUICKLY gather the EVIDENCE you've seen and re-post it for the WORLD to see; making ME look a fool.

Sounds like an easy task; eh?

[Elsie]

3. It is MORMON 'scripture' and Prophet #2 that condemns them.

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The Doctrine and Covenants

Section 132

Revelation given through Joseph Smith the Prophet, at Nauvoo, Illinois, recorded 12 July 1843, relating to the new and everlasting covenant, including the eternity of the marriage covenant, and also the plurality of wives (see History of the Church, 5:501–7). Although the revelation was recorded in 1843, it is evident from the historical records that the doctrines and principles involved in this revelation had been known by the Prophet since 1831.

.

.

.

58–66, Laws governing the plurality of wives are set forth.

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58 Now, as touching the law of the ^apriesthood, there are many things pertaining thereunto.

59 Verily, if a man be called of my Father, as was ^aAaron, by mine own voice, and by the voice of him that ^bsent me, and I have endowed him with the ^ckeys of the power of this priesthood, if he do anything in my name, and according to my law and by my word, he will not commit ^dsin, and I will justify him.

60 Let no one, therefore, set on my servant Joseph; for I will justify him; for he shall do the sacrifice which I require at his hands for his transgressions, saith the Lord your God.

61 And again, as pertaining to the law of the priesthood—if any man espouse a virgin, and desire to espouse ^aanother, and the first give her consent, and if he espouse the second, and they are virgins, and have vowed to no other man, then is he justified; he cannot commit adultery for they are given unto him; for he cannot commit adultery with that that belongeth unto him and to no one else.

62 And if he have ^aten virgins given unto him by this law, he cannot commit adultery, for they belong to him, and they are given unto him; therefore is he justified.

63 But if one or either of the ten virgins, after she is espoused, shall be with another man, she has committed adultery, and shall be destroyed; for they are given unto him to ^amultiply and replenish the earth, according to my commandment, and to fulfil the promise which was given by my Father before the foundation of the world, and for their exaltation in the eternal worlds, that they may bear the souls of men; for herein is the work of my Father continued, that he may be ^bglorified.

64 And again, verily, verily, I say unto you, if any man have a wife, who holds the keys of this power, and he teaches unto her the law of my priesthood, as pertaining to these things, then shall she believe and administer unto him, or she shall be destroyed, saith the Lord your God; for I will destroy her; for I will magnify my name upon all those who receive and abide in my law.

65 Therefore, it shall be lawful in me, if she receive not this law, for him to receive all things whatsoever I, the Lord his God, will give unto him, because she did not believe and administer unto him according to my word; and she then becomes the transgressor; and he is exempt from the law of Sarah, who administered unto Abraham according to the law when I commanded Abraham to take ^aHagar to wife.

66 And now, as pertaining to this law, verily, verily, I say unto you, I will reveal more unto you, hereafter; therefore, let this suffice for the present. Behold, I am Alpha and Omega. Amen.

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"Now if any of you will deny the plurality of wives, and continue to do so, I promise that you will be damned;

and I will go still further and say, take this revelation, or any other revelation that the Lord has given,

and deny it in your feelings, and I promise that you will be damned.

Brigham Young - JoD 3:266 (July 14, 1855)

[Elsie]

....a strange contradiction, I suppose.

Or their god is just confused...

[chesley]

Agreed.

There’s one right way, then there’s everything else.

[greyfoxx39]

It is very good to see FReepers come forth and declare for the Lord. Thank you.

[oilwatcher]

I agree with the author (citing Richard Land) when he describes Mormonism as a “fourth Abrahamic religion.” Mormonism is to Christianity as Christianity is to Judaism: it incorporates the scripture of the older faith but adds so much new material to it that it becomes a separate new religion.

Mormons may consider themselves to be Christians in the same way that early Christians considered themselves to be “completed” Jews. But for a traditional Christian, Mormonism MUST be considered a heresy. That doesn’t mean we can’t all get along, but getting along should be based on the truth.

[Elsie]

Mormons may consider themselves to be Christians in the same way that early Christians considered themselves to be “completed” Jews.

Oh?

Has something changed since the attitudes shown in post #83 were expressed?