The Big Discovery [by David, former Presbyterian]

Journeyof ImperfectSaint.blogspot.com ^ | October 4, 2009 | David

[Salvation]

Sunday, October 4, 2009

The Big Discovery

        I made some good friends outside my church and found out that they were all Catholics.  Now, I did not know much about Catholicism at the time.  By the way, the Mass did seem somewhat mysterious to me externally.  In fact, what little I had heard from other church members was all negative.  There was a Mrs. J at my church, who had just retired from her missionary post in China.  She was such a kind and endearing soul to all.  One day she got back from visiting someone at a hospital and looked extremely sad and disturbed.  It turned out that when she got to the hospital room, she saw that a Catholic priest was already there with the patient.  Now the question was if the patient would ever get to heaven. 

 

        Nevertheless, my Catholic friends all looked quite normal and happy.  Then could the Catholic Church, the largest church in the the world, be in error?  It so happened that at that time I was also beginning to question my Protestant faith.  The fact that there were numerous different denominations around the world bothered me.  Also, as a Protestant, whether you're a minister or lay person, you are free to marry and divorce any number of times.  It's hard to see that Jesus would be happy with these two facts.  Since I am the kind of person who always likes to find the answer to any question that's important, I decided to look into Catholicism.

 

        I made up my mind not to talk to anyone about my investigation.  I was single then and had a lot of free time to myself.  The local public library housed an excellent collection of books on Catholicism, so I started borrowing books on the subject.  I read every weekend, even taking notes as I read.  The went on for over a year.  I read all those books that viciously attack the Catholic Church too, but somehow they did not affect me much because I sensed that these attacks could not have been prompted by the Holy Spirit.  The books that really helped me were the ones on early Church history.  I could see that the continuity was there and the beliefs and practices of the early Church had been preserved to this day in the Catholic Church.  The only conclusion I could come to was that the Catholic Church was indeed the church Jesus had come and established.  Like Christ himself, the Church, being his body, must be accepted (or rejected) totally, with no middle ground. 

 

        Here's some advice for those who seek the truth.  Your chances of success will greatly improve if, first, you start out with a completely open mind and secondly, go to the source(s) directly to get the facts.  Many who misunderstand the Catholic Church today have already made up their mind that the Church is wrong, thus never bothering to pick up a copy of the Catechism of the Catholic Church to find out what the Church really teaches.  This is being close-minded. 

[Titanites]

I don’t recall “mind-reading” as a fruit of the Spirit.

Do you recall false accusations as a fruit of the Spirit?

[metmom]

Do you recall false accusations as a fruit of the Spirit?

It's not on the list. So why do Catholics keep making them about me?

[CynicalBear]

Well, how about we go to the Orthodox Christian information center and see what they are saying.

http://orthodoxinfo.com/inquirers/rome_orth.aspx

Here’s a quote.

We see, then, the basic and fundamental difference between Roman Catholic and Orthodox traditionalists. Traditionalist groups in the Roman Catholic Church are obliged to violate the ultimate authority in their Church to be where they are. We Orthodox traditionalists, however, must heed the ultimate authority in the Church to be where we are. And herein lies one of the most important differences between the Latin and Orthodox Churches in general: the Latin Church’s appeal to the authority of the Roman See and the Orthodox Church’s dependence on the authority of the wholeness of ecclesiastical tradition, the very Body of the Church.

Not a copasetic as you are trying to portray it seems.

[Titanites]

So why do Catholics keep making them about me?

My post wasn't to you. Don't project yourself into it.

[one Lord one faith one baptism]

well, you threw me in that briar patch, so here we go.

let’s examine the parable:

who sowed first, the man or the enemy?
what was planted first, the wheat or the tares?
does error spring from truth or truth from error.

Jesus established His Church ( the wheat, the children of the kingdom ) and the devil sowed the weeds AMONG THE WHEAT, THE WHEAT WAS THERE ALREADY! the weeds never overcome or extinguish the wheat, the wheat is there until the end.
so let’s take the parable and look at through the lens of history. was the Church planted among the Arians or did the Arians spring out out of the Church? what about Pelagianism?
Donatism? Cathars? Waldensians? Baptists? Mormons? Jehovah Witnesses?
the wheat Jesus planted is still here, just as He promised and the parable indicates. the devil can not make such a guarantee so some of his weeds have died and some are still here until the end.
the wheat existed at some point without the weeds, just as the Church has existed for 2,000 years and for many centuries without many of the above named “weeds”.
so the man who sowed the wheat has protected his crop until the harvest, just as he promised he would!

[Titanites]

Not a copasetic as you are trying to portray it seems.

We aren't discussing the Orthodox. We're talking about one of the Catholic churches in communion with the Pope - the Ukrainian Greek Catholics. So yes, it is still as copasetic as portrayed.

[daniel1212]

I understand, though there there is nothing in context that contradicts what i said, while it supports Constantinople as being the seat (if it has one seat) of the Eastern Orthodox in recognition of its Ecumenical Patriarch, and the use of the term “church of Rome,” and the distinction it denotes as being often necessary due to the differences in doctrine and claims btwn the Latin church and the Orthodox Cathlolics.

But none of which denies the imperfect union that they have, or the official “full communion”of UCs with Rome, despite some issues, or that MM could have been privy to expressions of bias.

[one Lord one faith one baptism]

Circumcision is the OT type of Baptism, as Paul explains in Colossians 2:11-12.

now, were babies circumcised in the OT, YES OR NO?

[Titanites]

Not a copasetic as you are trying to portray it seems.

Also, upthread there was a lecture about mind reading not being a fruit of the Holy Spirit. You should probably check it out.

[one Lord one faith one baptism]

this is the level of knowledge you get of Church History, it’s shocking that he doesn’t know the difference between the Catholics and the Orthodox!

[one Lord one faith one baptism]

this is the level of knowledge you get of Church History, it’s shocking that he doesn’t know the difference between the Catholics and the Orthodox!

[Titanites]

I understand, though there there is nothing in context that contradicts what i said, while it supports Constantinople as being the seat (if it has one seat) of the Eastern Orthodox in recognition of its Ecumenical Patriarch, and the use of the term “church of Rome,” and the distinction it denotes as being often necessary due to the differences in doctrine and claims btwn the Latin church and the Orthodox Cathlolics.

I didn't want to divert into a separate discussion about the Eastern Orthodox, but it looks like I need to get some clarifications. What do you mean by Orthodox Catholics? The Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church is not Eastern Orthodox, so I'm not sure what point your making by bringing in the Eastern Orthodox. There is no doctrinal difference between the Latin Catholic Church and the UGCC.

But none of which denies the imperfect union that they have, or the official “full communion”of UCs with Rome, despite some issues,

The imperfect union who has? What issues?

[Natural Law]

"It's not on the list. So why do Catholics keep making them about me?"

Point of order: Does an invitation to make posts of a personal nature like this one does suspend the prohibition against a direct answer or can some FReepers indeed have it both ways?

[Titanites]

this is the level of knowledge you get of Church History, it’s shocking that he doesn’t know the difference between the Catholics and the Orthodox!

I'm less than impressed that they want to continue arguing about something they really don't understand. I hope CB doesn't also claim to be a former Catholic if he doesn't even know these basics.

[one Lord one faith one baptism]

my experience has been the ones who know the least about the Catholic Faith, are those that “claim” to have been Catholic at some point. their ignorance and lack of Christian charity betray them.

[Jvette]

****obey your parents in the Lord****

Is that a phrase ever found in Scripture before? Why does Paul phrase it this way, rather than just, obey your parents?

*****And with adults and so what does that have to do with infant/adult baptism?*****

Nothing if one obstinately refuses to see the connection between the fact that children were brought to Jesus and Scripture is not specific about what were their ages.

And we see that Jesus laid His hands upon them and said “Let them come to me. Do not hinder them.”

Children were a part of Jesus’ ministry, their parents brought them to Him and when the parents “household” heard and believed, the parents would have spoken for and acted for their children, because that is what parents do.

[Titanites]

It hasn’t been only your experience. Some of the misinformation and outright disinformation that has been posted about the Church is pretty disheartening, especially when they call themselves Christian. I think the only thing that can cause them to act this way is bitterness against the Church.

[one Lord one faith one baptism]

Matthew 5:11

Blessed are you when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake.

remember my friend, we are only on earth to be a witness to the truth ( of course we know Jesus is the way, THE TRUTH and the life ). It is the job of the Holy Spirit to regenerate souls, we are only His instruments.

[Titanites]

Matthew 5:11 Blessed are you when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake.

remember my friend, we are only on earth to be a witness to the truth

Thanks for that encouraging Scripture verse.

One thing I've noted, related to your comment about witnessing to the truth, is that most of my posting is exposing against the misinformation and disinformation being posted about the Church. I'm not attacking their religious belief, but just responding to posts about my Church. I think a lot of the Catholics posting here are doing the same.

[daniel1212]

Well, i hope it is better than their tech support. But i was basically just curious as to your input. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medical_tourism has more on the issue.