Posted on 05/17/2012 5:40:57 PM PDT by Gamecock
Any other institution that lost one-third of its members would want to know why.....
The number of people who have left the Catholic church is huge.
We all have heard stories about why people leave. Parents share stories about their children. Academics talk about their students. Everyone has a friend who has left.
While personal experience can be helpful, social science research forces us to look beyond our circle of acquaintances to see what is going on in the whole church.
The U.S. Religious Landscape Survey by the Pew Research Center’s Forum on Religion & Public Life has put hard numbers on the anecdotal evidence: One out of every 10 Americans is an ex-Catholic. If they were a separate denomination, they would be the third-largest denomination in the United States, after Catholics and Baptists. One of three people who were raised Catholic no longer identifies as Catholic.
Any other institution that lost one-third of its members would want to know why. But the U.S. bishops have never devoted any time at their national meetings to discussing the exodus. Nor have they spent a dime trying to find out why it is happening.
Thankfully, although the U.S. bishops have not supported research on people who have left the church, the Pew Center has.
Pew’s data shows that those leaving the church are not homogenous. They can be divided into two major groups: those who become unaffiliated and those who become Protestant. Almost half of those leaving the church become unaffiliated and almost half become Protestant. Only about 10 percent of ex-Catholics join non-Christian religions. This article will focus on Catholics who have become Protestant. I am not saying that those who become unaffiliated are not important; I am leaving that discussion to another time.
Why do people leave the Catholic church to become Protestant? Liberal Catholics will tell you that Catholics are leaving because they disagree with the church’s teaching on birth control, women priests, divorce, the bishops’ interference in American politics, etc. Conservatives blame Vatican II, liberal priests and nuns, a permissive culture and the church’s social justice agenda.
One of the reasons there is such disagreement is that we tend to think that everyone leaves for the same reason our friends, relatives and acquaintances have left. We fail to recognize that different people leave for different reasons. People who leave to join Protestant churches do so for different reasons than those who become unaffiliated. People who become evangelicals are different from Catholics who become members of mainline churches.
Spiritual needs
The principal reasons given by people who leave the church to become Protestant are that their “spiritual needs were not being met” in the Catholic church (71 percent) and they “found a religion they like more” (70 percent). Eighty-one percent of respondents say they joined their new church because they enjoy the religious service and style of worship of their new faith.
In other words, the Catholic church has failed to deliver what people consider fundamental products of religion: spiritual sustenance and a good worship service. And before conservatives blame the new liturgy, only 11 percent of those leaving complained that Catholicism had drifted too far from traditional practices such as the Latin Mass.
Dissatisfaction with how the church deals with spiritual needs and worship services dwarfs any disagreements over specific doctrines. While half of those who became Protestants say they left because they stopped believing in Catholic teaching, specific questions get much lower responses. Only 23 percent said they left because of the church’s teaching on abortion and homosexuality; only 23 percent because of the church’s teaching on divorce; only 21 percent because of the rule that priests cannot marry; only 16 percent because of the church’s teaching on birth control; only 16 percent because of the way the church treats women; only 11 percent because they were unhappy with the teachings on poverty, war and the death penalty.
The data shows that disagreement over specific doctrines is not the main reason Catholics become Protestants. We also have lots of survey data showing that many Catholics who stay disagree with specific church teachings. Despite what theologians and bishops think, doctrine is not that important either to those who become Protestant or to those who stay Catholic.
People are not becoming Protestants because they disagree with specific Catholic teachings; people are leaving because the church does not meet their spiritual needs and they find Protestant worship service better.
Nor are the people becoming Protestants lazy or lax Christians. In fact, they attend worship services at a higher rate than those who remain Catholic. While 42 percent of Catholics who stay attend services weekly, 63 percent of Catholics who become Protestants go to church every week. That is a 21 percentage-point difference.
Catholics who became Protestant also claim to have a stronger faith now than when they were children or teenagers. Seventy-one percent say their faith is “very strong,” while only 35 percent and 22 percent reported that their faith was very strong when they were children and teenagers, respectively. On the other hand, only 46 percent of those who are still Catholic report their faith as “very strong” today as an adult.
Thus, both as believers and as worshipers, Catholics who become Protestants are statistically better Christians than those who stay Catholic. We are losing the best, not the worst.
Some of the common explanations of why people leave do not pan out in the data. For example, only 21 percent of those becoming Protestant mention the sex abuse scandal as a reason for leaving. Only 3 percent say they left because they became separated or divorced.
Becoming Protestant
If you believed liberals, most Catholics who leave the church would be joining mainline churches, like the Episcopal church. In fact, almost two-thirds of former Catholics who join a Protestant church join an evangelical church. Catholics who become evangelicals and Catholics who join mainline churches are two very distinct groups. We need to take a closer look at why each leaves the church.
Fifty-four percent of both groups say that they just gradually drifted away from Catholicism. Both groups also had almost equal numbers (82 percent evangelicals, 80 percent mainline) saying they joined their new church because they enjoyed the worship service. But compared to those who became mainline Protestants, a higher percentage of those becoming evangelicals said they left because their spiritual needs were not being met (78 percent versus 57 percent) and that they had stopped believing in Catholic teaching (62 percent versus 20 percent). They also cited the church’s teaching on the Bible (55 percent versus 16 percent) more frequently as a reason for leaving. Forty-six percent of these new evangelicals felt the Catholic church did not view the Bible literally enough. Thus, for those leaving to become evangelicals, spiritual sustenance, worship services and the Bible were key. Only 11 percent were unhappy with the church’s teachings on poverty, war, and the death penalty Ñ the same percentage as said they were unhappy with the church’s treatment of women. Contrary to what conservatives say, ex-Catholics are not flocking to the evangelicals because they think the Catholic church is politically too liberal. They are leaving to get spiritual nourishment from worship services and the Bible.
Looking at the responses of those who join mainline churches also provides some surprising results. For example, few (20 percent) say they left because they stopped believing in Catholic teachings. However, when specific issues were mentioned in the questionnaire, more of those joining mainline churches agreed that these issues influenced their decision to leave the Catholic church. Thirty-one percent cited unhappiness with the church’s teaching on abortion and homosexuality, women, and divorce and remarriage, and 26 percent mentioned birth control as a reason for leaving. Although these numbers are higher than for Catholics who become evangelicals, they are still dwarfed by the number (57 percent) who said their spiritual needs were not met in the Catholic church.
Thus, those becoming evangelicals were more generically unhappy than specifically unhappy with church teaching, while those who became mainline Protestant tended to be more specifically unhappy than generically unhappy with church teaching. The unhappiness with the church’s teaching on poverty, war and the death penalty was equally low for both groups (11 percent for evangelicals; 10 percent for mainline).
What stands out in the data on Catholics who join mainline churches is that they tend to cite personal or familiar reasons for leaving more frequently than do those who become evangelicals. Forty-four percent of the Catholics who join mainline churches say that they married someone of the faith they joined, a number that trumps all doctrinal issues. Only 22 percent of those who join the evangelicals cite this reason.
Perhaps after marrying a mainline Christian and attending his or her church’s services, the Catholic found the mainline services more fulfilling than the Catholic service. And even if they were equally attractive, perhaps the exclusion of the Protestant spouse from Catholic Communion makes the more welcoming mainline church attractive to an ecumenical couple.
Those joining mainline communities also were more likely to cite dissatisfaction of the Catholic clergy (39 percent) than were those who became evangelical (23 percent). Those who join mainline churches are looking for a less clerically dominated church.
Lessons from the data
There are many lessons that we can learn from the Pew data, but I will focus on only three.
First, those who are leaving the church for Protestant churches are more interested in spiritual nourishment than doctrinal issues. Tinkering with the wording of the creed at Mass is not going to help. No one except the Vatican and the bishops cares whether Jesus is “one in being” with the Father or “consubstantial” with the Father. That the hierarchy thinks this is important shows how out of it they are.
While the hierarchy worries about literal translations of the Latin text, people are longing for liturgies that touch the heart and emotions. More creativity with the liturgy is needed, and that means more flexibility must be allowed. If you build it, they will come; if you do not, they will find it elsewhere. The changes that will go into effect this Advent will make matters worse, not better.
Second, thanks to Pope Pius XII, Catholic scripture scholars have had decades to produce the best thinking on scripture in the world. That Catholics are leaving to join evangelical churches because of the church teaching on the Bible is a disgrace. Too few homilists explain the scriptures to their people. Few Catholics read the Bible.
The church needs a massive Bible education program. The church needs to acknowledge that understanding the Bible is more important than memorizing the catechism. If we could get Catholics to read the Sunday scripture readings each week before they come to Mass, it would be revolutionary. If you do not read and pray the scriptures, you are not an adult Christian. Catholics who become evangelicals understand this.
Finally, the Pew data shows that two-thirds of Catholics who become Protestants do so before they reach the age of 24. The church must make a preferential option for teenagers and young adults or it will continue to bleed. Programs and liturgies that cater to their needs must take precedence over the complaints of fuddy-duddies and rubrical purists.
Current religious education programs and teen groups appear to have little effect on keeping these folks Catholic, according to the Pew data, although those who attend a Catholic high school do appear to stay at a higher rate. More research is needed to find out what works and what does not.
The Catholic church is hemorrhaging members. It needs to acknowledge this and do more to understand why. Only if we acknowledge the exodus and understand it will we be in a position to do something about it.
Then apparently I believe the words of Christ, and those in your camp, don't.
I suppose that is why you would have been among those to desert Him at the synagogue in Capernaum.
Peace be with you.
I suppose that is why you would have been among those to desert Him at the synagogue in Capernaum.
Peace be with you.
Yes, that's right. But of course, they're not submitting to the authority of the Church, either...just like Protestants.
*WE'VE* established what?
I don't recall seeing anyone agree with you on that.
Maybe YOU think you've established it, but you've proved nothing.
True believers are filled with God's Holy Spirit and can hear and recognize His voice, but anything HE directs an individual believer in no way rises to the level of inspired Scripture.
The reasoning that Catholics use is simply an attempt to justify the use of tradition and put it on par or above Holy Spirit inspired Scripture. It leads to what we've seen in the nonsense of teaching and proclaiming them as truth things that are directly contradicted in Scripture.
I'd say the desertion is rather more immediate than Capernaum.
Then where is your OT citation for Simeon's prophecy?
Refusing to acknowledge an established fact does not make it any less established.
You have made that accusation before and I can only surmise that you are doing it again to be hurtful to those who love their Church. Shame on you.
Do you ever tire of being the fool? The facts are that the nations that practice the greater level of witchcraft, that still today sacrifice children and albinos, are located in sub-Saharan Africa, areas with a heavily Protestant presence.
The shame on you is that these pagan practices in Africa or the Caribbean is not a product of the form of Christianity brought to the people, but their rejection of it. It dishonors the martyrs of all denominations who sacrificed and are still sacrificing to bring the Gospel to these people rather than sit behind a keyboard and condemn all who do not follow your orthodoxy. I urge you to repent of that prideful sin, pick up your cross and actually make a sacrifice for something greater and more deserving than you.
May the Peace of Christ and the Holy Spirit come upon you.
Well, that wasn’t really directed at you.
Like prattling nonsense such as "The flesh counts for NOTHING" when clearly, most of what we call "sin" is defined by what we do with "the flesh."
Jesus went to great lengths to differentiate between "the flesh" and "My (His) Flesh". Our flesh counts for nothing. His Flesh counts for EVERYTHING.
Peace be with you.
Jesus went to great lengths to differentiate between "the flesh" and "My (His) Flesh". Our flesh counts for nothing. His Flesh counts for EVERYTHING.
Peace be with you.
Amen, and amen....
Don't flatter yourself too much, you're going to sprain your arm from patting yourself on the back too much. You're not as unique as you seem to think.
Many of us come from both Catholic and Protestant backgrounds. Most of those of us who speak out about the error we see in Catholicism were baptized and raised as Catholics. We left the Catholic church when we saw the truth in Scripture and couldn't reconcile it with the falsehoods the Catholic church teaches in the name of *holy tradition* that conflicted with the clear reading of Scripture.
These others, who just keep talking trash like they are rooting for their favorite ball team, and ignoring pertinent questions to yet again repeat their sanctified cliches, are merely expressing superstition dressed up in Christian garb. i.e. "magic."
If you've had to resort to accusing those who appeal to the authority of Scripture, which the Catholic church claims to have written, of engaging in magic then it's the equivalent of raising the white flag. It's essentially conceding defeat.
Are you going to likewise chastise your fellow Catholic(s) who on this very thread have made the same sorts of statements about Protestants?
I won't hold my breath.
The facts are that the nations that practice the greater level of witchcraft, that still today sacrifice children and albinos, are located in sub-Saharan Africa, areas with a heavily Protestant presence.
Prove it. Cite it.
May the Peace of Christ and the Holy Spirit come upon you.
He has already.
If what I have seen here is "appealing to the authority of Scripture," then so is rubbing Buddha's belly.
As I said earlier, the Pharisees were "appealing to Scripture" when they accused the disciples of harvesting on the Sabbath. And most of the twisted accusations made against Jesus himself, were based on Scripture.
Again, quoting Scripture means nothing, rightly dividing it, does.
Are you going to cleave that sentence in half again with your reply?
Wow! The peace of Christ argues like a petulant little girl...who knew?
I am not following this closely, but what is the premise behind this?
Prove it. Cite it.
Just.... wow......
You just don't get it, do you?
If you think that sin is only what you do in the flesh, you are going to be in for a rude awakening some day. Learn now before it's too late.
Matthew 5:8 “Blessed are the pure in heart, for they shall see God.
Matthew 5:21-22 21 “You have heard that it was said to those of old, ‘You shall not murder; and whoever murders will be liable to judgment.’ 22 But I say to you that everyone who is angry with his brother will be liable to judgment; whoever insults his brother will be liable to the council; and whoever says, ‘You fool!’ will be liable to the hell of fire.
Matthew 5:27-28 27 “You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall not commit adultery.’ 28 But I say to you that everyone who looks at a woman with lustful intent has already committed adultery with her in his heart.
Matthew 23:25-28 25 “Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you clean the outside of the cup and the plate, but inside they are full of greed and self-indulgence. 26 You blind Pharisee! First clean the inside of the cup and the plate, that the outside also may be clean. 27 “Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you are like whitewashed tombs, which outwardly appear beautiful, but within are full of dead people's bones and all uncleanness. 28 So you also outwardly appear righteous to others, but within you are full of hypocrisy and lawlessness.
Matthew 12:34 You brood of vipers! How can you speak good, when you are evil? For out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks.
Matthew 15:18-20 18 But what comes out of the mouth proceeds from the heart, and this defiles a person. 19 For out of the heart come evil thoughts, murder, adultery, sexual immorality, theft, false witness, slander. 20 These are what defile a person. But to eat with unwashed hands does not defile anyone.”
1 John 3:15 Everyone who hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him.
Mark 7:18-23 18 And he said to them, “Then are you also without understanding? Do you not see that whatever goes into a person from outside cannot defile him, 19 since it enters not his heart but his stomach, and is expelled?” ( Thus he declared all foods clean.) 20 And he said, “What comes out of a person is what defiles him. 21 For from within, out of the heart of man, come evil thoughts, sexual immorality, theft, murder, adultery, 22 coveting, wickedness, deceit, sensuality, envy, slander, pride, foolishness. 23 All these evil things come from within, and they defile a person.”
If what goes into a man's stomach cannot defile him, then what goes into a man's stomach cannot make him righteous or pure either.
Sin starts in the heart long before it is given birth in in the flesh. We are not at the mercy of our flesh. We do what we want to do, what we choose to do. If we choose to sin, it's because we decided before the actions to do it.
God's standard is not merely absolute perfection in actions, it's also absolute perfection in heart. If Catholics truly believe that unless each and every sin they commit is repented for individually, they are to be most pitied because there's simply NO WAY that ANYONE can keep accounts of each and every sin they commit every day. On that basis, since they believe in salvation by works, no one is ever going to make it to heaven, Catholic or not.
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