Posted on 05/17/2012 5:40:57 PM PDT by Gamecock
Any other institution that lost one-third of its members would want to know why.....
The number of people who have left the Catholic church is huge.
We all have heard stories about why people leave. Parents share stories about their children. Academics talk about their students. Everyone has a friend who has left.
While personal experience can be helpful, social science research forces us to look beyond our circle of acquaintances to see what is going on in the whole church.
The U.S. Religious Landscape Survey by the Pew Research Center’s Forum on Religion & Public Life has put hard numbers on the anecdotal evidence: One out of every 10 Americans is an ex-Catholic. If they were a separate denomination, they would be the third-largest denomination in the United States, after Catholics and Baptists. One of three people who were raised Catholic no longer identifies as Catholic.
Any other institution that lost one-third of its members would want to know why. But the U.S. bishops have never devoted any time at their national meetings to discussing the exodus. Nor have they spent a dime trying to find out why it is happening.
Thankfully, although the U.S. bishops have not supported research on people who have left the church, the Pew Center has.
Pew’s data shows that those leaving the church are not homogenous. They can be divided into two major groups: those who become unaffiliated and those who become Protestant. Almost half of those leaving the church become unaffiliated and almost half become Protestant. Only about 10 percent of ex-Catholics join non-Christian religions. This article will focus on Catholics who have become Protestant. I am not saying that those who become unaffiliated are not important; I am leaving that discussion to another time.
Why do people leave the Catholic church to become Protestant? Liberal Catholics will tell you that Catholics are leaving because they disagree with the church’s teaching on birth control, women priests, divorce, the bishops’ interference in American politics, etc. Conservatives blame Vatican II, liberal priests and nuns, a permissive culture and the church’s social justice agenda.
One of the reasons there is such disagreement is that we tend to think that everyone leaves for the same reason our friends, relatives and acquaintances have left. We fail to recognize that different people leave for different reasons. People who leave to join Protestant churches do so for different reasons than those who become unaffiliated. People who become evangelicals are different from Catholics who become members of mainline churches.
Spiritual needs
The principal reasons given by people who leave the church to become Protestant are that their “spiritual needs were not being met” in the Catholic church (71 percent) and they “found a religion they like more” (70 percent). Eighty-one percent of respondents say they joined their new church because they enjoy the religious service and style of worship of their new faith.
In other words, the Catholic church has failed to deliver what people consider fundamental products of religion: spiritual sustenance and a good worship service. And before conservatives blame the new liturgy, only 11 percent of those leaving complained that Catholicism had drifted too far from traditional practices such as the Latin Mass.
Dissatisfaction with how the church deals with spiritual needs and worship services dwarfs any disagreements over specific doctrines. While half of those who became Protestants say they left because they stopped believing in Catholic teaching, specific questions get much lower responses. Only 23 percent said they left because of the church’s teaching on abortion and homosexuality; only 23 percent because of the church’s teaching on divorce; only 21 percent because of the rule that priests cannot marry; only 16 percent because of the church’s teaching on birth control; only 16 percent because of the way the church treats women; only 11 percent because they were unhappy with the teachings on poverty, war and the death penalty.
The data shows that disagreement over specific doctrines is not the main reason Catholics become Protestants. We also have lots of survey data showing that many Catholics who stay disagree with specific church teachings. Despite what theologians and bishops think, doctrine is not that important either to those who become Protestant or to those who stay Catholic.
People are not becoming Protestants because they disagree with specific Catholic teachings; people are leaving because the church does not meet their spiritual needs and they find Protestant worship service better.
Nor are the people becoming Protestants lazy or lax Christians. In fact, they attend worship services at a higher rate than those who remain Catholic. While 42 percent of Catholics who stay attend services weekly, 63 percent of Catholics who become Protestants go to church every week. That is a 21 percentage-point difference.
Catholics who became Protestant also claim to have a stronger faith now than when they were children or teenagers. Seventy-one percent say their faith is “very strong,” while only 35 percent and 22 percent reported that their faith was very strong when they were children and teenagers, respectively. On the other hand, only 46 percent of those who are still Catholic report their faith as “very strong” today as an adult.
Thus, both as believers and as worshipers, Catholics who become Protestants are statistically better Christians than those who stay Catholic. We are losing the best, not the worst.
Some of the common explanations of why people leave do not pan out in the data. For example, only 21 percent of those becoming Protestant mention the sex abuse scandal as a reason for leaving. Only 3 percent say they left because they became separated or divorced.
Becoming Protestant
If you believed liberals, most Catholics who leave the church would be joining mainline churches, like the Episcopal church. In fact, almost two-thirds of former Catholics who join a Protestant church join an evangelical church. Catholics who become evangelicals and Catholics who join mainline churches are two very distinct groups. We need to take a closer look at why each leaves the church.
Fifty-four percent of both groups say that they just gradually drifted away from Catholicism. Both groups also had almost equal numbers (82 percent evangelicals, 80 percent mainline) saying they joined their new church because they enjoyed the worship service. But compared to those who became mainline Protestants, a higher percentage of those becoming evangelicals said they left because their spiritual needs were not being met (78 percent versus 57 percent) and that they had stopped believing in Catholic teaching (62 percent versus 20 percent). They also cited the church’s teaching on the Bible (55 percent versus 16 percent) more frequently as a reason for leaving. Forty-six percent of these new evangelicals felt the Catholic church did not view the Bible literally enough. Thus, for those leaving to become evangelicals, spiritual sustenance, worship services and the Bible were key. Only 11 percent were unhappy with the church’s teachings on poverty, war, and the death penalty Ñ the same percentage as said they were unhappy with the church’s treatment of women. Contrary to what conservatives say, ex-Catholics are not flocking to the evangelicals because they think the Catholic church is politically too liberal. They are leaving to get spiritual nourishment from worship services and the Bible.
Looking at the responses of those who join mainline churches also provides some surprising results. For example, few (20 percent) say they left because they stopped believing in Catholic teachings. However, when specific issues were mentioned in the questionnaire, more of those joining mainline churches agreed that these issues influenced their decision to leave the Catholic church. Thirty-one percent cited unhappiness with the church’s teaching on abortion and homosexuality, women, and divorce and remarriage, and 26 percent mentioned birth control as a reason for leaving. Although these numbers are higher than for Catholics who become evangelicals, they are still dwarfed by the number (57 percent) who said their spiritual needs were not met in the Catholic church.
Thus, those becoming evangelicals were more generically unhappy than specifically unhappy with church teaching, while those who became mainline Protestant tended to be more specifically unhappy than generically unhappy with church teaching. The unhappiness with the church’s teaching on poverty, war and the death penalty was equally low for both groups (11 percent for evangelicals; 10 percent for mainline).
What stands out in the data on Catholics who join mainline churches is that they tend to cite personal or familiar reasons for leaving more frequently than do those who become evangelicals. Forty-four percent of the Catholics who join mainline churches say that they married someone of the faith they joined, a number that trumps all doctrinal issues. Only 22 percent of those who join the evangelicals cite this reason.
Perhaps after marrying a mainline Christian and attending his or her church’s services, the Catholic found the mainline services more fulfilling than the Catholic service. And even if they were equally attractive, perhaps the exclusion of the Protestant spouse from Catholic Communion makes the more welcoming mainline church attractive to an ecumenical couple.
Those joining mainline communities also were more likely to cite dissatisfaction of the Catholic clergy (39 percent) than were those who became evangelical (23 percent). Those who join mainline churches are looking for a less clerically dominated church.
Lessons from the data
There are many lessons that we can learn from the Pew data, but I will focus on only three.
First, those who are leaving the church for Protestant churches are more interested in spiritual nourishment than doctrinal issues. Tinkering with the wording of the creed at Mass is not going to help. No one except the Vatican and the bishops cares whether Jesus is “one in being” with the Father or “consubstantial” with the Father. That the hierarchy thinks this is important shows how out of it they are.
While the hierarchy worries about literal translations of the Latin text, people are longing for liturgies that touch the heart and emotions. More creativity with the liturgy is needed, and that means more flexibility must be allowed. If you build it, they will come; if you do not, they will find it elsewhere. The changes that will go into effect this Advent will make matters worse, not better.
Second, thanks to Pope Pius XII, Catholic scripture scholars have had decades to produce the best thinking on scripture in the world. That Catholics are leaving to join evangelical churches because of the church teaching on the Bible is a disgrace. Too few homilists explain the scriptures to their people. Few Catholics read the Bible.
The church needs a massive Bible education program. The church needs to acknowledge that understanding the Bible is more important than memorizing the catechism. If we could get Catholics to read the Sunday scripture readings each week before they come to Mass, it would be revolutionary. If you do not read and pray the scriptures, you are not an adult Christian. Catholics who become evangelicals understand this.
Finally, the Pew data shows that two-thirds of Catholics who become Protestants do so before they reach the age of 24. The church must make a preferential option for teenagers and young adults or it will continue to bleed. Programs and liturgies that cater to their needs must take precedence over the complaints of fuddy-duddies and rubrical purists.
Current religious education programs and teen groups appear to have little effect on keeping these folks Catholic, according to the Pew data, although those who attend a Catholic high school do appear to stay at a higher rate. More research is needed to find out what works and what does not.
The Catholic church is hemorrhaging members. It needs to acknowledge this and do more to understand why. Only if we acknowledge the exodus and understand it will we be in a position to do something about it.
No, it doesn’t.
Politically, I stand shoulder to shoulder with all CONSERVATIVES whatever religious affiliation they claim.
However, based on Catholic voting patterns, they have contributed more to the demise of this country in heavily leaning towards the democrat and putting them in office, than just about any other religious group.
Religious unity is NOT going to be what turns this country around until and unless they vote conservative. As long as Catholics overwhelmingly vote pro-abortion leftists into office, this country is on the wide road to destruction.
“Most of these people either want to contracept, abort their children, divorce and remarry, ordain women, or engage in aberrant sexual behavior.”
Well, according to the study, Catholics seem quite comfortable doing most of those things while remaining Catholic. (not counting remarriage and ordaining women)
Is there something untrue about my observations of Catholic voting patterns being liberal?
Considering the thousands year long reputation of the Catholic clergy for immorality and corruption, that'd be funny if it weren't so pathetic.
From post 32 this thread......
40% Roman Catholics vs. 41% Non-R.C. see abortion as "morally acceptable"; Sex between unmarried couples: 67% vs. 57%; Baby out of wedlock: 61% vs. 52%; Homosexual relations: 54% vs. 45%; Gambling: 72% vs. 59%
http://www.gallup.com/poll/117154/Catholics-Similar-Mainstream-Abortion-Stem-Cells.aspx
Committed Roman Catholics (church attendance weekly or almost) versus Non-R.C. faithful church goers (see the below as as morally acceptable): Abortion: 24% R.C. vs. 19% Non-R.C.; Sex between unmarried couples: 53% vs. 30%; Baby out of wedlock: 48% vs. 29%; Homosexual relations: 44% vs. 21%; Gambling: 67% vs. 40%; Divorce: 63 vs. 46% ^
88% of Catholics believe that they can practice artificial means of birth control and still be considered good Catholics. New York Times/CBS News poll, Apr. 21-23, 1994, subsample of 446 Catholics, MOE ± 5%
A good place to see this is among Hispanics who become Protestant, they also start voting for life, and marriage and the conservative Christian way in large numbers, that means they are people who have changed as Christians, it is the evidence that changing churches was a move to a more Christian experience, not a lessor one like their Democrat voting Catholic fellow Hispanics.
I live among many Hispanics, and the only ones who seem to be Christians on fire, are the ex-Catholics, the Protestant ones talk about Christ and God, the Catholic ones talk about the Catholic church.
From the description kearnyirish2 gave, I imagine the NJ Gov, votes like the majority of Catholics now, not like the majority of Protestants.
LOL! I found out that was from daniel’s blog.
Not facts, but his opinion in most of it.
Although my life has always been filled with many Catholics, I never got to see behind the scenes until I started dating a wealthy, Irish Catholic girl whose father was rich, a girl that I eventually married.
It was interesting to be able to suddenly rub shoulders and have drinks with all the Priests and what not that came to his house and parties, to be able to call on them and make appointments for their time, I didn’t really see all that personal interaction and access among the more humble Catholics in my life.
I left Catholicism because I studied the Bible, obeyed it, and knew I could no longer attend that pagan church. My eyes were opened to the truth, and I could never go back.
Yet the badly catechized excuse for the predominate liberal condition of RCs leaders offers different conclusions, that RCs suffer from a lack of comprehension of sufficiently clear teaching, or RC teaching suffers from to a lack of perspicuity, and or their regeneration and confirmation yet leaves them spiritually unmotivated and lacking in spiritual and moral discernment, while those in evangelical faith overall tend to be conservative readers of the Bible readers and spirtual lit., and better able to express their faith.
He cites sources for the polls. It’s not just his opinion.
And it’s far better than any of the stats that any Catholics have posted showing otherwise.
Oh right,......
They haven’t posted any.......
“every “former Catholic” I know... did it over personal involvement with the divorce/remarriage question.”
That is your experience, but it certainly is not mine, while surveys do not back this up, while the testimony of different RCs here has been that this need not be a real problem.
“our former governor did it after leaving his Catholic wife & child; he went to an Episcopal seminary”
That is the problem, as we are not simply comparing RCs with Prot. churches, many of which can be just as institutionalized, but with evangelicals, those who hold the supremacy of Scripture, and profess a cognizant personal regeneration by faith and a Scripture-based personal relationship with the Lord Jesus, etc. And which criteria i sought to provide on that page: http://www.peacebyjesus.com/RC-Stats_vs._Evang.html
“I don’t know why it’s beyond the comprehension of some that they can know exactly what the RCC church teaches and STILL reject it.
There are former Catholics on board here who used to TEACH catechism classes.
We KNOW what Catholicism teaches and since it doesn’t line up with Scripture, we reject it.”
~ ~ ~
Hi, I am not sure, does this mean you were baptized Roman
Catholic?
It would be INSANITY to leave the faith if you understood
God is present in the most Holy Eucharist.
Private interpretation of Scripture is heresy. That’s why
our brothers and sisters pick a few verses in the Bible
and ignore the rest, they do not line up but conflict with
their private interpretation.
There is not one verse in the Bible, Old and New Testament
that conflicts with another when you follow the Church,
her interpretation of Scripture. God gave her the authority
to interpret the Bible. God did the same when the Church canonized Scripture.
Read the foot notes of the English version of the first
Bible, the footnotes will help you understand difficult verses and they are a help to understand why the Church teaches what she does.
I am a baptized Catholic and raised Catholic. I have extended family members who were priests and nuns.
It would be INSANITY to leave the faith if you understood God is present in the most Holy Eucharist.
Except that God is NOT present in the eucharist. Spiritual life is imparted by grace through faith, not through eating God. Spiritual life is not imparted to the believer by physical actions and works or ceremonies.
Scripture is more than clear on the prohibition of eating blood. IF the church were correct about that, then it would be insanity to leave but if they're not correct, then what they're teaching is heresy itself.
Passover was done in REMEMBRANCE of the first and actual Passover, it wasn't a re-enactment of it. In the Passover ceremony, the cup they drank was wine, not blood. The blood was NOT to be eaten.
As observant Jews, the disciples would not have drank the cup of the new covenant at what we call the Last Supper if they really thought it was actual blood. It would have made them ceremonially unclean for the observance of the Passover. And it would have been impossible for Jesus to break His own commandments against eating blood and demand that His disciples do it knowing it would cause them to sin.
Nor would Jesus have drank of the cup Himself because if it were indeed blood, then He would have sinned and become unclean and been incapable of being the perfect, spotless lamb.
Salvation by faith, simply believing, in Jesus own words.
John 6:28-29 Then they said to him, “What must we do, to be doing the works of God?” Jesus answered them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in him whom he has sent.”
John 6:40 For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who looks on the Son and believes in him should have eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day.”
I checked out the link you gave and found an interesting discrepancy in the translation of John 6:58 between the two links here.
At this link, http://bible.cc/john/6-58.htm
John 6:58 reads.....
Douay-Rheims Bible
“This is the bread that came down from heaven. Not as your fathers did eat manna, and are dead. He that eateth this bread, shall live for ever. “
At the link you gave me the D-R Bible translates it so....
http://www.drbo.org/chapter/50006.htm
[58] As the living Father hath sent me, and I live by the Father; so he that eateth me, the same also shall live by me.
A look at the Greek shows the first translation to be correct.
http://biblos.com/john/6-58.htm
I am afraid that I cannot find the D-R Bible trustworthy if such a cursory review of it shows this kind of translation discrepancy. This is far worse than anything the various Protestant versions are accused of.
So? You know one reason from one person and all of a sudden ALL former Catholics fit that profile?
Profile? Sure. Some disagree with the Church's stand on homosexuality; others marriage; others the Sacraments; others (open the Catechism at random and somebody will have a beef with it). But it all comes down to the idea of me, myself and I. I choose what to believe, when I want to believe it, where I want to believe it, how often I want to believe it, and how long I want to believe it before I wander off into something else.
The magic of Martin Luther's Reformation is the idea that one can create his own beliefs, theology and religion, like his 'every milkmaid' that he rued as he realized what he had done.
Teddy Kennedy was a Catholic, even got a Catholic funeral. Shall we paint all Catholics as a Kennedy, as adulterous, murdering, liars??
Far too many are. Far too many Baptists, Pentecostals, Methodists, Reformed, and what have you are as well. Can you name me any Baptists that have been excommunicated? Count for me the free will or the Calvinist Baptists that have been refused a Baptist funeral. Will you actually need a second hand of fingers, or will one do?
Using your standards.......
Please do. And show me where Freaky Freddy Phelps' Westboro Baptist Church has been dealt with in the manner that they appear to need. I don't mean to pick on the Baptists - I like the Baptists just fine. Select another denomination if you prefer.
Interesting, but not surprising.
I am a member of the PCA (Presbyterian Church of America). I believe that not long ago, the presbytery basically kicked a church out because they were not following correct doctrine. It is not that unusual. I also know several PCA pastors who will not marry couples. I also know of instances where people were not allowed to participate in communion and then asked to leave the church because of sin.
Just because you haven’t heard of it does not mean it doesn’t happen. It happens a lot more in evengelical churches than in the Roman church, IMO.
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