Evangelicals Becoming Catholic, why?

CatholicConvert.com ^ | May 10, 2011 | Steve Ray

[Salvation]

Evangelicals Becoming Catholic, why?

by Steve Ray on May 10, 2011

 

Below is an interesting YouTube video (really audio) of an Evangelical Radio show in which two Evangelicals discuss why so many Evangelical Protestants are leaving to join the Catholic Church.

The host and guest are trying to be honest in the show entitled  “Why Evangelicals are Returning to Rome.” Although towards the end of the video they are making some statements that are historically inaccurate (about Luther and the Popes); nevertheless, their questioning tries to be honest. It is interesting that they are taking note of a large exodus. I am one of those who Crossed the Tiber to Rome.

Furthermore, this was coming from a Protestant network that is decidedly anti-Catholic.  They are willing to discuss openly what has been happening for years now (the exodus of Evangelical ordained ministers to Catholic and Eastern Orthodox Churches).  They also mention briefly EWTN, the program Journey Home and the moderator Marcus Grodi, a convert from Evangelical Christianity. It is obvious this is all new to them since they didn’t even know how to pronounce Marcus Grodi’s name.

The moderator Ingrid Slater asked Pastor Bob DeWay; “Let’s talk about the problem; what do you think is the seed bed (this is sort of a rhetorical question; everybody knows what a mess Evangelicalism is as a whole today doctrinally speaking).  What is setting people up for this disenchantment and the willingness to look to Roman Catholicism?”

Here are some of the Problems that Bob Deway lists, though they really have no explanation since they are blind to the real problems within Protestantism, which are things that cannot be fixed. If they were fixed they would be Catholics.
(1) The Seeker Movement took the Bible out of churches.
(2) People are not steeped in solid Bible teaching (yeah, but according to whose interpretation?).
(3) Big churches that don’t preach the Bible (who decides what should be taught??).
(4) The influx of mystical practices, contemplative prayer, the labyrinths.
(5) Seminaries that are training therapeutic practitioners rather than theologians.
(6) The idea that we have to have to justify our practices and beliefs from Scripture – according to what Luther and the other reformers – which has now been overlooked.

The moderator then mentioned a book saying, “Coming Home by Fr Peter [Eastern Rite] (I am not even going to use the term father). . . He used to head up Campus Crusade here in the Midwest” Evidently he is now heading up an organization helping Evangelical ministers come into the Eastern rite Churches.  If you want to know why he made his move from Evangelical Protestantism you can listen to the video.

For years you’d hear Evangelicals boast of the fact that their churches were filled [with] ex-Catholics.  But in too many cases the Evangelical churches are just the exit ramp that eventually leaves them disillusioned and abandoning the faith altogether. Now the tide is changing.  Some Evangelicals seem to be oblivious to the fact of this large exodus of Evangelical ministers and lay people.

A year ago, Karl Keating of Catholic Answers Live said he believed there were now more Evangelicals or Fundamentalists leaving Protestantism to become Catholic than the other way around. Even Evangelicals admit that there are notable Protestants becoming Catholics but no notable Catholics becoming Protestants.

I could take exception to several of Pastor Bob’s statements and argue decisively against them, but that is not the point of my posting this video.

[ctdonath2]

And in close juxtaposition is a thread contending the opposite:
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/2885096/posts

[redhead]

"that I’ll never be asked to set foot in a Catholic church."

You don't have to be asked. Just get a list of Catholic parishes, and GO. You don't have to be married in the Church to attend Mass, and many Catholics and "seekers" will tell you that.

The Catholic Church is made up of sinners. Try every parish on the list, and make your choice that way. Go more than once. Learn about it as well as you can.

Get a copy of the Catechism of the Catholic Church, and read it. You'd be surprised at how readable and interesting it is. Don't cheat yourself of the experience of Mass because you think you don't belong. GO!!

[Donald Rumsfeld Fan]

[Natural Law]

"The reply originated because of the insinuation that the individuals moving toward the Protestant side were of the timber of Pelosi, Biden and Sibelius."

In one very real sense they are. Biden, Pelosi and the like believe that they personally are the ultimate arbiter of truth. Those who reject the Church universally do the same.

[Persevero]

“You’re right, especially when they want to move on to the second husband/wife.”

I do not understand that comment, since Roman Catholics seem to divorce and remarry without any punishment I’ve heard of from their church.

Communion appears to be served to everyone and I have seen not so much as an inquiry about anyone’s faithful obedience prior to its being served.

[redhead]

"I attended Mass for eight years waiting for my husband to agree to having our marriage blessed in the Church. It’s hard to go and not receive the Eucharist, but I knew the Lord would open my husband’s heart eventually."

This is exactly what happened with my husband and I many years ago. Turns out there really was no impediment to our marriage (we were convinced there was) and we were able to have our marriage blessed. We ACHED for Communion (both baptized as children, married outside the Church as adults. it was worth the wait.

[Persevero]

“Sebelius (who BTW has been excommunicated by her Kansas Bishop) etc.”

I am glad to hear that; it seems everything I hear/read indicates that there is no church discipline of any kind going on.

Perhaps it varies from area to area.

[Natural Law]

"as explained in the link provided"

Truth in advertising would dictate that he inform you he is directing you to his own website/blog.

[ansel12]

If you feel drawn to a church, then attend services there for a while and see what comes of it, no one is going to ask for a purity form to be filled out at the door.

[ansel12]

Biden and Pelosi would not be likely to become Evangelicals, if they did, then it would also probably mean they were going to start being anti-abortion, anti-gay agenda voters, as it is, they are among their fellow democrat voters.

[Salvation]

** Roman Catholics seem to divorce and remarry without any punishment I’ve heard of from their church.**

And the source of this information, or is it your opinion? Is it just hearsay — third party?

Or did you hear this from a priest or a bishop?

**Communion appears to be served to everyone and I have seen not so much as an inquiry about anyone’s faithful obedience prior to its being served.**

If someone receives Holy Communion unworthily, since it is the Body and Blood of Christ, they will have to answer for this sin — and it is not a small sin!!!

[NELSON111]

Are there evangelicals becoming Catholic? Sure. I am not going to get into a debate here...but the stats don't (well...anyone can MAKE them lie...but the numbers here do not lie): There are far more Catholics leaving the Catholic church for evangelical churches than vice versa. See "The Church in Crisis" for documentation (someone has my book).

Anecdotally, I know of one individual who has left the evangelical church to become catholic. He married a catholic. He wasn't thrilled about doing it but he was not a dedicated Baptist in the first place. One the other hand, I know a nun (now in my church), two former Catholics now going to a evangelical (non-denominational) church, my best friend who WAS catholic when we met who is now Baptist...as was his wife....AND kids...and another couple who is still Catholic but who is actually looking to become...cough cough...Episcopal. They don't count. They want some religion without the guilt. Catholic light. His words...not mine.

But again...those are just MY experiences. However, if you look at the numbers in this country...and world wide...people leaving the RCC to become evangelical far outnumber those who leave evangelical churches to become RCC. That's a fact.

[Salvation]

More bishops are getting spines via the urging of Pope Benedict.

Witness the 100% of Bishops who spoke out against the HHS mandate.

[Natural Law]

"Biden and Pelosi would not be likely to become Evangelicals..."

I completely agree, but they still choose the authority of their own reason to determine what is right and wrong just like those who reject the Papacy and Magisterium and leave the Church.

[Persevero]

“And the source of this information, or is it your opinion? Is it just hearsay — third party?”

I’ve known plenty of Catholics in my lifetime. None seemed to get any grief for it.

I would like to see the RC Church enforce these standards, so don’t assume I am the enemy here.

I used to attend RC churches and get communion without anyone inquiring so much as my name (I didn’t know any better). I know for a fact many of us going were living in sin, etc.

Furthermore we see publicly the very unfaithful “Catholics” like the Kennedys, Pelosis, etc. getting away with literal murder and treated like “good Catholics-” very insulting to the truly faithful Catholic IMO.

I heard from another poster that Sebelius finally got reprimanded, good for them, and I hope that becomes a trend.

[Persevero]

“If someone receives Holy Communion unworthily, since it is the Body and Blood of Christ, they will have to answer for this sin — and it is not a small sin!!!”

I agree and would like to see MUCH stricter enforcement. Souls are at stake with eternal consequences. In my experiences it is treated very lightly at least by those dispensing.

[scbison]

The Liturugy is what GOD does for us not we what we can do for GOD and that is what is missing in Evangical churches as they think worship is more of an act they do than what GOD does. From the Invocation, a reminder what GOD has done for us in baptism, to reading of scriputres and sermons which tells us what GOD does for by showing us the law and need a savior through the Gospel to communion,giving us body and blood through bread and wine.

[ansel12]

Evidently that is normal for Catholics since the majority of them vote for Pelosi and Biden and their party platform, in support of their decisions.

[daniel1212]

As regard the criteria for annulments,

http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG1104/_P3Z.HTM:

MATRIMONIAL CONSENT

Can. 1095 The following are incapable of contracting marriage:

1/ those who lack the sufficient use of reason;

2/ those who suffer from a grave defect of discretion of judgment concerning the essential matrimonial rights and duties mutually to be handed over and accepted;

3/ those who are not able to assume the essential obligations of marriage for causes of a psychic nature [all are judgment calls which can see varying verdicts].

List of diriment impediments to marriage

• Age.[6] If the man is under 16 years of age, or the woman is under 14 years of age, then their marriage is invalid. This is an ecclesiastical impediment, and so does not apply to a marriage between two non-Catholics. However, note that in a marriage between a Catholic and a non-Catholic, the age limitation applies to the non-Catholic party as well.[7] Each national episcopal conference has the authority to set a higher minimum age as a prohibitive impediment. Note that, in general, individual bishops do not have this authority (cf. CIC c. 1075 §2).[7] In Canada, and also in New Zealand, this minimum age has been set to 18 years old for both parties.[8] In England and Wales, this minimum age has been set to be in accordance with civil law (i.e., 16 years old for both parties).[9] In Gambia, Liberia, and Sierre Leone, this minimum age has been set to 18 years old for the man and 16 years old for the woman.[10] In the Philippines, this minimum has been set to 21 years old for the bridegroom, and 18 years old for the bride.[11] In South Africa, and also in Switzerland, this minimum age has been set to be in accordance with civil law.[12] In Nigeria, the episcopal conference has delegated the authority to set a higher prohibitive minimum age to the individual bishops.[13] The United States Conference of Catholic Bishops has not enacted a higher prohibitive minimum age for marriage.[14]

• Physical capacity for consummation lacking [15]. Per Canon 1084 §3 "Without prejudice to the provisions of Canon 1098, sterility neither forbids nor invalidates a marriage." Both parties, however, must be physically capable of completed vaginal intercourse, wherein the man ejaculates "true semen" into the woman's vagina. (See [1] for details.) To invalidate a marriage, the impotence must be perpetual (i.e., incurable) and antecedent to the marriage. The impotence can either be absolute or relative. This impediment is generally considered to derive from divine natural law, and so cannot be dispensed.[16] The reason behind this impediment is explained in the Summa Theologica:[17] “In marriage there is a contract whereby one is bound to pay the other the marital debt: wherefore just as in other contracts, the bond is unfitting if a person bind himself to what he cannot give or do, so the marriage contract is unfitting, if it be made by one who cannot pay the marital debt.”

• Previous marriage [18]. Previous marriages, whether conducted in the Catholic Church, in another church, or by the State. All previous attempts at marriage by both parties wishing to marry must be declared null prior to a wedding in the Catholic Church, without regard to the religion of the party previously married. Divine, absolute, temporary.

• Disparity of cult [19]. A marriage between a Catholic and a non-baptized person is invalid, unless this impediment is dispensed by the local ordinary. Ecclesiastical, relative.

• Sacred orders [20]. One of the parties has received sacred orders. Ecclesiastical, absolute, permanent (unless dispensed by the Apostolic See).

• Perpetual vow of chastity [21]. One of the parties has made a public perpetual vow of chastity. Ecclesiastical, absolute, permanent (unless dispensed by the Apostolic See).

• Abduction [22]. One of the parties, usually the woman, has been abducted with the view of contracting marriage. Ecclesiastical,[citation needed] temporary.

• Crimen [23]. One or both of the parties has brought about the death of a spouse with the view of entering marriage with each other. Ecclesiastical, relative, permanent (unless dispensed by the Apostolic See).

• Consanguinity [24]. The parties are closely related by blood. Ecclesiastical or divine, depending on the degree of relationship. Relative, permanent.

• Affinity [25]. The parties are related by marriage in a prohibited degree. Ecclesiastical, relative, permanent.

• Public propriety [26]. The parties are "related" by notorious concubinage. Ecclesiastical, relative, permanent.

• Adoption [27]. The parties are related by adoption. Ecclesiastical, relative, permanent.

• Spiritual relationship [28]. One of the parties is the godparent of the other. This no longer applies in the Latin Rite, but still applies in the Eastern Catholic Churches.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canonical_impediment#List_of_diriment_impediments_to_marriage

Catholic Diocese of Arlington

What are some possible grounds for annulment?

Among the signs that might indicate reasons to investigate for an annulment are: marriage that excluded at the time of the wedding the right to children, or to a permanent marriage, or to an exclusive commitment. In addition, there are youthful marriages; marriages of very short duration; marriages marked by serious emotional, physical, or substance abuse; deviant sexual practices; profound and consistent irresponsibility and lack of commitment; conditional consent to a marriage; fraud or deceit to elicit spousal consent; serious mental illness; or a previous bond of marriage. The determination of the ground should be made after extensive consultation with the parish priest or deacons, and based upon the proofs that are available. http://www.arlingtondiocese.org/tribunal/faq.php#Grounds

Alsp see http://www.americancatholic.org/newsletters/cu/ac1002.asp

The annulment crisis in the Church

By Fr. Leonard Kennedy

Divorce
Church : Divorce

The annulment crisis in the Church By Fr. Leonard Kennedy Issue: March 1999 [excerpt]

Review Article:

Robert H. Vasoli, What God has joined together (Oxford University Press, 1998, 252 pages, hardcover, $40 Canadian).

Annulments booming
The United States has 6% of the world's Catholics but grants 78% percent of the world's annulments. In 1968 the Church there granted fewer than 600 annulments; from 1984 to 1994 it granted just under 59,000 annually. But more than 90% of the cases which were appealed to the highest matrimonial court, the Roman Rota, were overturned.

The author gives several reasons for the incredible growth in American annulments;

1. There is advertising in church bulletins, Catholic newspapers, and even the secular press, that annulments are available, sometimes with a suggested guarantee that they will be granted. "Some invitations practically promise an annulment to all who apply. The promotional efforts . . . may evoke responses from . . . spouses who dream of greener marital pastures but would not seriously consider separation and divorce were annulment not presented as a convenient and acceptable alternative."

One brochure said: "Usually once a request for annulment is accepted, a favorable decision is given. However, a careful review is made before a request is accepted . . . . A ëfavorable' decision is synonymous with annulment; evidently upholding the validity of marriage is ëunfavorable.'"

2. Most petitions are presented to judges without proper screening. "No fewer than 66 of the 165 diocesan and archdiocesan tribunals . . . decided to go to trial with every petition presented."

3. A high percentage of cases that are tried end in a declaration of nullity. From 1984 to 1994 it was 97% for First Instance trials. All cases however have to have a second trial. The percentage of decisions overturned in the United States is 4/10 of 1%. "What the picture reveals is that mandatory review, and appeals leading to retrials at Second Instance, have done very little to tarnish America's reputation as the annulment capital of the universe."

4. Many matrimonial judges are not well qualified for their work, lacking a doctorate or a licentiate in canon law. Sometimes judges of the First Instance are also judges (on other cases) of the Second Instance, which is not good practice. Three judges are recommended for trials, but most often there is only one (which is allowed with permission).

5. "In practice . . . many if not most tribunal experts seldom conduct a direct, face-to-face examination of either spouse." "Cases have come to my attention where the expert . . . arrived at a diagnosis of defective consent solely by means of a telephone conversation with a tribunal judge . . . . In most judicial systems, attempts to introduce into evidence expert diagnosis of that nature would be laughed out of court."

6.Sometimes the Defender of the Bond does not have a canon law degree and his opinion can be easily overruled by a highly trained judge.

7.Respondents are usually not fully informed of all their options.

8.Rather than considering the detrimental effect on respect for the sacrament of marriage which is caused by the scandal of almost automatic annulment, and the cynicism produced in some of the parties to an annulment and in Catholics generally, those handling the annulments concentrate on sympathy for their clients, or often just for the one initiating the annulment.

9.Theologians argue that in certain papal documents, such as Gaudium et spes and Casti Connubii, the Church has changed the definition of marriage. This argument is fallacious.

10.Many judges think that, if a marriage is not an ideal one, it is not a valid marriage at all, and that therefore an annulment should be granted to any marriage that has broken up.

11.68% of annulments today are granted because of "defective consent," which involves at least one of the parties not having sufficient knowledge or maturity to know what was involved in marriage. The ingenuity of judges in confidently asserting that such knowledge or maturity was lacking is amazing. Vasoli says that it is done by substituting "junk psychology" for sound psychology and psychiatry. He quotes the statement of one matrimonial judge: "There is no marriage which, given a little time for investigation, we cannot declare invalid."

http://www.catholicinsight.com/online/church/divorce/c_annul.shtml

Also see A Canadian Respondent's experience of success with the Annulment process

http://www.saveoursacrament.org/Canada.html

[daniel1212]

Its from one of the posts i had saved,

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2618333/posts?page=5559#5559