You know, at times those of us who regularly converse with Lds walk a balance.
We love to hear statements like yours which sound Biblical...'cause frankly we know a lot of Mormons do read the Bible...and we know that influences them...
So part of that balance will be to "amen" when Mormons read Biblical conclusions. But when those Mormons then usurp General Authority authority...and portend that what they are saying represents official Mormondom... No, that just won't do.
Because it allows you to spin what isn't so.
So if the above is your personal take on the atonement, why would I want to attack that?
But...If you are claiming that is what the Mormon church officially teaches re: the atonement...think again.
Now what is incomplete re: what Jeff says...that betrays official Mormon teaching on the atonement?
#1 Christ's atonement covers our sin nature...something Mormons even deny that humankind has (a sin nature)
What do I mean by a sin nature?
Allow us all to filter our understanding thru the Living Word -- Jesus Christ: 19 For out of the heart come evil thoughts—murder, adultery, sexual immorality, theft, false testimony, slander. (Matthew 15:19)
Our heart isn't simply corrupted by the sin we allow into our lives; no, Jesus says that it's our heart that spills over into enacted sin...
Let's go back to Jewish theological thought from a long time ago:
* Surely I was sinful at birth, sinful from the time my mother conceived me. (Psalm 51:5) [Based on this verse, Joseph Smith & Mormons call the Psalmists a liar on this...they think the Psalms teaches falsely on this]
* Even from birth the wicked go astray; from the womb they are wayward... (Psalm 58:3)
What people mix up is that they think the Garden happens all over again at some point in their life: something environmental tempts them & then they sin "for the first time." Until then, they think they're innocent. [Mormons teach that children are perfect angels until age 8...I guess all those children's temper tantrums are just done to help parents be better people -- and no other "sinful" reason]
Unlike Adam & Eve, people do not simply sin & then become sinful; they sin because they are sinful by nature. The symptoms are the misdeeds -- not the diagnosis itself.
People's spiritual nature is dead (Eph. 2:1), which the NT describes as being in bondage to sin (Romans 6).
Now, in contrast what does the Mormon 2nd article of faith emphasize? It teaches that men are subject to punishment for their own sins; their Mormon "jesus" doesn't serve as our Substitute [LDS second article of faith: "We believe that men will be punished for their OWN sins, and not for Adam's transgression."]
IOW, not for Adam's sin nature that's been generationally passed down.
This, plain and simple, is heresy. And Mormons, like Jeff, are heretics for denying all of the Biblical scriptures above.
#2 What is the other Lds "atonement" teaching that Jeff Head conveniently ignore -- as taught by another Jeff H. in the Mormon hierarchy?
Answer?
Well, God bless her, Greyfoxx39 posted this relevant thread a few years back:
ATONEMENT OF JESUS CHRIST - Mormon- (OPEN)
The speaker/writer is Lds "apostle" Jeffrey Holland.
From this link, Lds "apostle" Jeffrey Holland claims forgiveness of personal sins applies to ONLY to members of the Mormon church:
From that Holland message: Latter-day Saints believe that other aspects of Christ's gift are conditional upon obedience and diligence in keeping God's commandments. For example, while members of the human family are freely and universally given a reprieve from Adam's sin through no effort or action of their own, they are not freely and universally given a reprieve of their own sins unless they pledge faith in Christ, repent of those sins, are baptized in his name, receive the gift of the Holy Ghost and confirmation into Christ's church...
Notice from the above quote all that Jeff Head left out re: Jeff Holland's claims:
* The Mormon version of the atonement doesn't "take" minus your "obedience" and diligent command-keeping;
* And that people "are not freely and universally given a reprieve of their own sins unless they are baptized in his name...and confirmation into Christ's church...
Per Mormonism, what is the ONLY true church on the face of the earth? The Mormon church...no membership...no atonement (payment for your sin; at-one-ment reconciliation with the Father) for you.
Snapshot of Joseph Smith’s Slanderous Invectives vs. Christian Sects |
Mormon Source[Note: Most of these are Mormon ‘scriptures'. In fact, First three rows below are Lds 'scripture' & therefore cannot be rug-swept any more than a Jew might try to take three commandments off of the very tablets of stone Moses brought down from the mountain] |
| “...which of all the sects was right… must join NONE of them, for they were ALL WRONG… those professors were ALL CORRUPT…” | Joseph Smith – History vv. 18-19. – Lds "scripture" Pearl of Great Price |
| ...“which of all the sects was right…ALL their CREEDS were an ABOMINATION in his sight…they teach for doctrines the commandments of MEN…” | Joseph Smith – History vv. 18-19. – Lds "scripture" Pearl of Great Price |
| Mormon church the only ‘Christ-sanctioned’ church on earth: “…the foundation of this [Mormon] church…the ONLY true and living church on the face of the whole earth” [Obvious ‘scorched earth’ implication: All other churches are false and dead] | Lds “scripture” Doctrines & Covenants 1:30 |
Jesus is THE Spiritual Physician of spiritual physicians.
He didn't say jump thru these commandment & membership hoops, oh wretched spiritually infirmed one...oh, spiritual cancerous person, & then we'll talking about covering your sin.
No, Jeff. God in Christ levels the playing field before the cross by undercutting any spiritual pride that presumes anybody from any religion doesn’t need Him as our great physician ("It is not the healthy who need a doctor, but the sick...For I have NOT COME to call the righteous, but sinners."--Matthew 9:12)
The atonement is for us unhealthy sinners, Jeff...not just membership Mormons in good standing to collect a series of temple recommends from Bishop Romney & the rest of the Lds bishops...
We join with the apostle Paul in declaring the TRUE Gospel:
* But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were STILL SINNERS, Christ died for us. (Romans 5:8)
* Here is a trustworthy saying that deserves full acceptance: Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners—of whom I am the worst. (1 Timothy 1:15)
* But for that very reason I was shown mercy so that in me, the worst of sinners, Christ Jesus might display his immense patience as an example for those who would BELIEVE in him and RECEIVE eternal life. (1 Timothy 1:16)
I have been a terrible sinner, Jeff. I have needed Jesus Christ the Physician. His atonement covered my sin pre-hoop jumping. Your leaders put up boundaries that don't exist.
We believe and RECEIVE as sinners (not meritoriously earn) eternal life -- just like those in Christ did before the Mormon church ever came along and labeled the rest of us "apostates."
Jeff you could no more overcome your spiritual cancer (sin) of you own volition, effort, diligence, commandment-keeping, membership alliance, and obedience to any given regimen than physical cancer. It's time for a NEW SAVIOR in your life...One Who can heal you PHYSICALLY and SPIRITUALLY right now in HIS POWER with signs & wonders following this convo.
As always, its a circular discussion with you.
I have accepted Jesus Christ, just as I have said. He alone saves and has saved me. Good works follow them that believe, they do not make their faith and they do not earn them a spot in Heaven. They are a natural conclusion to the acceptance and following of Him.
A real conversion produces this. Christ said, “if ye love me, keep my commandments.” We believe that, but you confuse which comes first, the horse or the cart in LDS faith...in fact, as with many denominations, members get this wrong too.
We are not earning our way to Heaven Col, despite your protestations and declarative staements to LDS people to the contrary about what they believe, as though you can see in their hearts and make this determination. You cannot, only God in Heaven and His Son can.
No, we are not and cannot “earn” our way to Heaven. We are just trying, as He commanded us, out of our love for Him, to keep His commandments as we ubnderstand them.
Again, God’s blessings to you.