[MHGinTN]

Ah yes, LDS/LSD foolery. God had to earn the attributes of godhood, according to the founders of LDS inc. ... And Milt Rominy (rhymes with hominy, the corn product) believes this so much that he places millions of dollars in the org’s hands!

[NorthernCrunchyCon]

Ping!

Recently, I have noticed that Mormon apologists for Mitt are avoiding, re-directing and in some cases denying Mormon belief in eternal progression. So I was a little surprised to find the above posted to LDS.org

[WilliamofCarmichael]

That's fine about the billions, trillions of other worlds.. even other universes.

That's fine that people on other worlds are far enough along to be gods(?) compared to us -- I guess. I did not read the article.

I want to know who created the electromagnetic waves (I think light waves and all are called). It is from them that all that we know are made.

Whoever created those electromagnetic waves.. now there is GOD! Some say that all matter including us are holograms.

[fabian]

Say what? What a vivid imagination that author had! O man...you have to be a bit of a fool to stay for long in that religion.

[guitarplayer1953]

Ok so God had a father and I'd suppose that His Father had a Father too. So how far back into eternity does this go? And what happened to the Father's Father?

[usacon]

Wow, more superb detective work! An unwholesome negative obsession proceeds predictably.

[Colofornian]

Ah. An excellent find...from THE "OFFICIAL" mag of THE Lds Church!

From the article: Long before our God began his creations, he dwelt on a mortal world like ours, one of the creations that his Father had created for him and his brethren. He, with many of his brethren, was obedient to the principles of the eternal gospel. One among these, it is presumed, was a savior for them..

Do you all realize what the Mormon church is saying here? God the Father, they conclude, was a "sinner." I mean, why else, would God the Father and the beings of His world need a "Savior" -- unless He was deemed a "sinner."

Utter Mormonistic blasphemy!

When Mormon leaders' comments along these lines are scanned, we can tell that the Mormon god is distinct from THE God of the Bible...

Similar comments from this vein:

LDS "Apostle" Bruce McConkie wrote: "The Father is a glorified, perfected resurrected, exalted man who worked out his own salvation by obedience to the same laws he has given to us so that we may do the same" (A New Witness for the Articles of Faith, pg. 64).

As somebody once pointed out...Notice McConkie's use of the word "resurrected" and the phrase, "worked out his salvation." Only those who die can be resurrected, and only those who are lost need salvation.

Bottom-line here:

Mormon leaders have taught that Heavenly Father needed "salvation!" And, since death came due to sin (either your own, or in Jesus' case, someone else's), whose sin caused Heavenly Father to die, Mormons? Whose sin was around that prompted his death? His own?

Also, please note another aspect of this Lds "apostle's" claim: He said Heavenly Father is a "perfected...exalted man." Interesting. Why did He say "perfected" -- vs. "perfect? This Lds "apostle" claimed Heavenly Father needed a spiritual makeover and needed to be perfectED!!!

(I guess that shows you what kind of sinner-saved god Mormons REALLY embrace!!!)

What other Lds general authority comment supports the notion that Lds worship a sinner-saved god?

Well, after B.H. Roberts, the next "deep theologian" to fill the ranks of Mormonism was Lds "apostle" James E. Talmage.

Here's how Talmage weighed in on this: "...but though the Son is glorified with the glory of the Father, you can't change the fact that He is the Son of that Father,
and that Father,
the Eternal Father,
the Father of Jesus Christ,
the Father of His spirit
and the Father of His body,
was once a Man,
and has progressed,
not by any favor but by the right of CONQUEST OVER SIN,
and over death,
to His present position of priesthood and power,
of Godship and Godliness,
as the Supreme Being whom we all profess to worship"
(James E. Talmage, Conference Reports, April 1915, p. 123).

So there ya go! Talmage says the Mormon god "progressed...to His present position of...Godship". He got the "godship" job! And how did he manage that? Well he won via a "Conquest over sin"!!!!!!!!!!!!! (and death)

Hmmm...the Mormon elohim was a sinner!!!! (says a prominent Lds "apostle" still repeatedly cited by the Mormon church and by Mormon leaders)

Per the Mormon Journal of Discourses: "God our Heavenly Father was perhaps once a child, and mortal like we are, and rose step by step in the scale of progress, in the school of advancement; has moved forward and overcome, until He has arrived at the point where He now is" (Lds "apostle" Orson Hyde, Journal of Discourses 1:123).

So. Mormon leaders have stated that Elohim (God the Father), as a mortal on some distant planet similar to Earth, went through the same struggles as present-day humans in order to obtain his Godhood. In the words of LDS Apostle Orson Hyde, "God our Heavenly Father was perhaps once a child, and mortal like we are," HYDE is claiming GOD (our Heavenly Father) was mortal like we are. To be consistent, HYDE is claiming mortality for GOD, so it would have to include "a sinful nature".

Well, again, we know from history that mortality was provoked by things having to do with a tree. In the book of Genesis, it was rebellion (sin) by picking fruit from a forbidden tree. And for Jesus, it was donning a tree (the cross) to pay for the fruit of Adam & Eve's sin passed down throughout mankind. So sin was linked to mortality somehow -- either thru direct sin or indirectly taking on the sin of others.

So, again, if the Mormon elohim was mortal, why? Was it his sin -- or that of another?

Other Lds leaders even elaborated a bit beyond that: "The doctrine that God was once a man and has progressed to become a God is unique to this Church. How do you feel, knowing that God, through His own experience, 'knows all that we know regarding the toils [and] sufferings' of mortality?" (Brigham Young, Teachings of the Presidents of the Church: Brigham Young, p. 34, brackets in original)

So Brigham claimed the Mormon god knows all about the "toils & sufferings" of mortality from firsthand experience!!!

And another Lds "apostle," Orson Whitney, emphasized that "Mormonism teaches that God was once just like ourselves; that the eternal part of Him was enshrined in mortal flesh, subject to mortal ills and earthly pains and toils." (Orson F. Whitney, May 6, 1892, Collected Discourses 3:45)

So perhaps the "best" way for us to describe the Mormon god, per their "apostles," is to first ask Mormons to describe themselves, since Whitney says he "was once JUST LIKE OURSELVES!" That not only includes mortal flesh, but mortal ills. (And guess what prompted mortal ills?) That's right, sin.

Finally, consider what two other Lds "apostles" claimed:
"God and man are of the same race, differing only in their degress of advancement" (John A. Witdsoe, Rational Theololgy, 1915, p. 61)
Wow!!!
And: "Gods, angels, and men are all of one species, one race, one great family, widely diffused among the planetary systems as colonies, kingdoms, nations, etc." (Parley P. Pratt, The Key to the Science of Theology, 1978, p. 21)

Parley P. Pratt, btw, is Mitt Romney's G-G grandfather! (And Romney says he is sticking to the "faith of his fathers!")

So...if ya wanna know the gods of Mitt Romney & his fellow Mormons...well...if you saw aliens from another planet, and one said they were humanoid just like us, and another said, "Yeah, I'm humanoid, too. But I'm also divine." Well, there's your Mormon master race! Aliens from heavens, Mormons all of them, some claiming to be man-made gods, and others claiming to be future man-made gods.

The Mormon "apostles" -- the entire bunch -- are whacko heretics!

[boatbums]

Except Almighty God said repeatedly (it's even in the JS version of the Bible) that besides HIM there are NO other gods. Was he lying? Was Jesus lying when he said he and his father are ONE? If you see him, you have seen the Father? Did he lie about creating everything that exists and without him was not anything created? That through him all things consist (are held together)?

At what point in Mormonology was the "first cause". How, and WHO, started it all from nothing? If Jesus is not Almighty God incarnate, in the flesh, then why was it prophesied he would be? Why did Jesus claim he was the one? At what point does Mormonism claim ALL the worlds began? There are a great many questions that LOSE their answers if Mormonism is true, are you prepared to provide the alternate answers?

Finally, are you here to convince everybody that Mitt Romney is "just a normal Christian"?

[Colofornian]

From the article: Long before our God began his creations, he dwelt on a mortal world like ours, one of the creations that his Father had created for him and his brethren. He, with many of his brethren, was obedient to the principles of the eternal gospel. One among these, it is presumed, was a savior for them..

This Mormon concept also of multiple saviors was consistent with what Brigham Young taught a full century prior to this article being written in the official LDS mag:

Brigham Young: "He was the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world. On every earth. How many earths are there?...Consequently every earth has its redeemer..." (Journal of Discourses, Vol. 14, p. 71, 1870)

[wastedyears]

Dunno if you’d care about this since it’s not aviation related.

On the other small hand, there’s one thing I could agree with Mormons on: mathematically speaking (and my math is pretty terrible), we cannot be alone in the universe. There’s probably over a trillion planets out there, and odds are we aren’t the only life.

[stpio]

Please post some Mormon miracles, signs of God’s presence
in Mormonism. Second time I’ve requested. Show science
has investigated them to document. Thanks NCC.

Christianity has three major signs of the presence of
of God, the miraculous, besides the millions of personal
prayers said in a person’s head (non-verbal) that have been answered.

The Shroud of Turin

The Tilma of Guadalupe

Padre Pio bore the wounds of Christ for fifty years

[Colofornian]

From the official lds.org article posted by NorthernCrunchyCon: Not only do we know about the existence of people on other worlds; Latter-day Saints know also that people from other worlds visit the earth! Earth has been receiving visitors from outer space for years, and these visitors have been leaving highly intelligent messages for our benefit. When we put this all in perspective, it becomes very exciting: intelligent beings from a higher culture have visited earth frequently. In fact, isn’t that a large part of the gospel message?

So Romney is going to the White House to receive alien visitors from outer space, huh?

(And how exactly will he be able to discern them from false angels? Oh yeah, a handshake, per Mormon "scripture":)

Don't believe me? Read my post #45 here: They See Dead People?

Talk about eerie Mormonism!!!

[Colofornian]

From the official lds.org article posted by NorthernCrunchyCon: Not only do we know about the existence of people on other worlds; Latter-day Saints know also that people from other worlds visit the earth! Earth has been receiving visitors from outer space for years, and these visitors have been leaving highly intelligent messages for our benefit. When we put this all in perspective, it becomes very exciting: intelligent beings from a higher culture have visited earth frequently. In fact, isn’t that a large part of the gospel message?

Now do y'all see why Mormonism is so readily compared to Scientology?

L. Ron Hubbard could have easily substituted Kolob for Venus in his religion.

According to Scientology, when a person dies — or, in Scientology terms, when a thetan abandons its physical body — they go to a "landing station" on the planet Venus, where the thetan is re-implanted and told lies about its past life and its next life. The Venusians take the thetan, "capsule" it, and send it back to Earth to be dumped into the ocean off the coast of California. Source: Thetan (Wikipedia)

Seems to me that, per the Mormon myth narrative, when when an earthling is becoming "encapsuled" they leave from a "launching station" on the planet Kolob, where the Mormon spirit is implanted inside a human body, and once born with a Mormon family, the Mormon is told lies about its past life and its next life. The Mormon gods take the Mormon, "capsule" it in that body, and send it to Earth to be dumped at age 8 into the Mormon baptismal founts off of many international coasts.

At: LDS (Mormonism) and Scientology: A Brief Theological Comparison ...Under one of the differences, I actually see more of a connection...#6 mentions Mormonism's "exaltation to godhood"...Scientologists a "return to Thetanhood" as its "final goal."

If there is a resemblance between the two founders, presumably it is because Hubbard looked at Joseph Smith and the LDS and decided it would provide him with a very useful model for a successful religion. He gave it an SF twist, because that was what he was good at, and it probably amused him.

Well, Hubbard did have to "twist" any sci-fi that Mormon leaders hadn't already done before him -- just a lot less detail.

For example:

* Lds "prophet" Brigham Young: Who can tell us of the inhabitants of this little planet that shines of an evening, called the moon? ...when you inquire about the inhabitants of that sphere you find that the most learned are as ignorant in regard to them as the most ignorant of their fellows. So it is with regard to the inhabitants of the sun. Do you think it is inhabited? I rather think it is. Do you think there is any life there? No question of it; it was not made in vain.
Source: Journal of Discourses, Vol. 13, p. 271...1870 -- so keep in mind, Young had already been leading the Lds church for about 25 years or so when he made this comment.

Brigham Young's first counselor was "apostle" Heber C. Kimball: "Where did the earth come from? From its parents earths...The earth is alive. If it was not, it could not produce." (Journal of Discourses, Vol. 6, p. 36, 1857)

BTW, where did Brigham Young get his "source" re: the habitation of the moon?

Oliver B. Huntington: Nearly all the great discoveries of men in the last half century have, in one way or another, either directly or indirectly, contributed to prove Joseph Smith to be a prophet. As far back as 1837, I know that he said the moon was inhabited by men and women the same as this earth, and that they lived to a greater age than we do--that they live generally near the age of 1000 years. He described the men as averaging nearly six feet in height, and dressing quite uniformly in something near the Quaker style. In my Patriarchal blessing, given by the father of Joseph the Prophet in Kirtland, 1837, I was told that I should preach the gospel before I was 21 years of age; that I should preach the gospel to the inhabitants upon the islands of the sea, and--to the inhabitants of the moon, even the planet you can not behold with your eyes. The first two promises have been fulfilled, and the latter may be verified. From the verification of the two promises we may reasonably expect

[mkjessup]

Ahh c’mon now, what’s wrong with this? Everyone ends up being a god, and running their own planet somewhere out in the cosmos, I just want to know if Planet Romney (ruled over benevolently by Emperor George) requires everyone to drive a Nash-Rambler? As long as I don’t have to drive an accursed Gremlin or a ‘Pacer’, I suppose I could deal with it.

BEAM ME TO PLANET ROMNEY! (just kidding, JUST kidding! ;)

[Tainan]

As the good Colonel would say...


"Meadow muffins...nothing but meadow muffins!"

[Waywardson]

No. Not true. Not truth. A lie from the pit of hell and Satan himself.

God himself said “I am that I am.” Not I was once like you. He BECAME like us, that we might become AS Him. We will not ever BE Him.

As the famous quote goes: “you lie”

[onedoug]

Seems sort of like scientology to me.

[RaceBannon]

There is no life out there

Pss 115:16 The heaven, [even] the heavens, [are] the Lord’s: but the earth hath he given to the children of men.

[Elsie]

Long before our God began his creations,
he dwelt on a mortal world like ours,
one of the creations that his Father had created for him and his brethren.

Mr. Romney, I've been wondering...

[Elsie]

No, Ma'am; we usually do not start out with these facts; but if you'd like to hear about Forever Families; we are more than able to explain that to you.