Posted on 03/31/2012 8:03:04 PM PDT by Salvation
The Rapture
by Sebastian R. Fama "The Rapture" is a term that is used by Bible Christians to describe the belief that at some point in time Jesus will come, and all true believers will literally rise up and meet Him in the air and be whisked away to heaven. All non-believers will remain on the earth to be dealt with later. The Catholic Church teaches that Jesus will come and judge the living and the dead. The righteous will be saved and the unrighteous will suffer eternal damnation. No one will be left on the earth. Belief in such a rapture was first taught in the late 1800’s. Interestingly enough there seems to be little agreement among Bible Christians as to what exactly will happen or when. One of the passages used to support belief in the Rapture is 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18. Verse 17 says, "Then we who are alive, who are left, shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air." This simply speaks about the end of the world when true believers will be saved. Paul's purpose is not to explain the judgment of the living and the dead, but rather he is assuring believers that the dead will participate in the Second Coming of Christ. Notice what the first and last verses of the passage say: "But we would not have you be ignorant, brethren, concerning those who are asleep…therefore, comfort one another with these words." The words "caught up in the clouds" are used to illustrate how quickly things will transform at the Second Coming of Christ: "We shall all be changed in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we shall be changed" (1 Corinthians 15:51-52). Matthew 24:36-44 is also used to support belief in the Rapture. It reads in part, "Then two men will be in the field; one is taken and one is left. Two women will be grinding at the mill; one is taken, and one is left." This means that the righteous will be saved and the unrighteous will be left for destruction (Hell). The conclusion of the passage (verses 45-51) makes this clear: "Who then is the faithful and wise servant whom his master has set over his household to give them their food at the proper time? Blessed is that servant whom his master, when he comes, will find so doing. Truly I say to you, he will set him over all his possessions. But if that wicked servant says to himself, 'My master is delayed,' and begins to beat his fellow servants, and eats and drinks with the drunken, the master of that servant will come on a day when he does not expect him and at an hour he does not know, and will punish him, and put him with the hypocrites. There men will weep and gnash their teeth." Whenever the term "weep and gnash their teeth" appears in Scripture, it refers to those who are in hell. Note that verse 45 begins with the words "who then." This shows us that we are still on the same subject as we were in verses 36-44.This is important because it illustrates that on the appointed day the righteous are being saved and the unrighteous are going to hell. Keeping that in mind, who does that leave on earth? No one! If we combine all of the verses of Scripture that deal with this issue we find that the Rapture is simply not possible. Consider the following: Jesus will be coming back to earth one more time not two. The Rapture requires a second coming, (the Rapture) and a third coming (the end of the world). Some try to get past this by claiming that the Rapture is not the Second Coming because we meet Jesus in the air and not on the earth. But even the verses used to support the Rapture such as 1 Thessalonians 4:15 speak of it as "the coming", which indicates that it is a coming and a singular event at that. 1 Thessalonians 4:15: "For this we declare to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, shall not precede those who have fallen asleep." Matthew 24:27: "For as the lightning comes from the east and shines as far as the west, so will the coming of the Son of man." 1 Corinthians 15:22-23: "For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ shall all be made alive. But each in his own order: Christ the first fruits, then at His coming those who belong to Christ."
1 Thessalonians 2:19: "For what is our hope or joy or crown of boasting before our Lord Jesus at His coming?" Jesus must stay in heaven until that time. That leaves no time for the Rapture before the end of the world. Acts 3:19-21: "Repent therefore, and turn again, that your sins may be blotted out, that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord, and that He may send the Christ appointed for you, Jesus, whom heaven must receive until the time for establishing all that God spoke by the mouth of His holy prophets from old." When He comes He will be coming all the way down to the earth. He won't be hovering over it, as the Rapture requires. Acts 1:9-11: "And when He had said this, as they were looking on, He was lifted up, and a cloud took him out of their sight. And while they were gazing into heaven as He went, behold, two men stood by them in white robes, and said, 'Men of Galilee, why do you stand looking into heaven? This Jesus, who was taken up from you into heaven, will come in the same way as you saw him go into heaven." When He comes He will be coming to judge the living and the dead. Once again if all are going to be judged that would leave no one on earth.
Matthew 25:31-46: "When the Son of man comes in His glory, and all the angels with him, then He will sit on His glorious throne. Before him will be gathered all the nations, and He will separate them one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats, and He will place the sheep at His right hand, but the goats at the left. Then the king will say to those at His right hand, 'Come, O blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world'…Then He will say to those at His left hand, 'Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels'…And they will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life." In conclusion the Scriptures teach us the following: 1. Jesus will be coming back to earth one more time not two. In John 16:13, Jesus said that the Holy Spirit would lead His apostles into all truth. And yet we find no support for the Rapture in the scriptures. Likewise, the writings of the early Church fathers are silent on the issue. Since some of them were contemporaries of the apostles, we can reasonably assume that they would have known about the Rapture if it were a part of the deposit of faith. The Rapture is also not mentioned in any of the creeds. As we noted earlier, the idea of the Rapture was first taught in the late 1800's. If the apostles and their successors were ignorant of the Rapture for eighteen centuries, it would mean that Jesus lied in John 16. That in itself rules out the Rapture.
2. Jesus must stay in heaven until that time.
3. When He comes He will be coming all the way down to the earth.
4. When He comes He will be coming to judge the living and the dead.
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- Clement Of Rome
- Ephraim The Syrian
- Revelation 3:10-11 (To the Church ofPhiladelphia)
So how do we learn about THOSE things? Apostolic Tradition. After all, the New Testament, as a book, didn't get put together until 420 A.D. And THOSE books were judged to be worthy and accurate by the Catholic bishops, the ROMAN Catholic bishops in Rome.
There is no line in Scripture that says that Scripture is the SOLE source of our teaching, but then, sola scriptura,is an invention of excommunicated Catholic priest, Doctor Father Martin Luther.
Father Luther did dump seven of the OT books (Tobias, Baruch, Judith, Wisdom, Ecclesiatics I and II, Macabees, seven chapters of the book of Esther, AND 66 verses of Daniel 3) and WANTED to dump the letter of St. James but his followers talked him into putting the letter of St. James BACK into "his" (his words not mine) New Testament.
I had an OLD friend (Reared Baptist, changed to Presbyterian because the Baptist church is her town (where she lived in as an adult) was not....well, not what she and her family wanted, read an excerpt from the Book of Wisdom at my husband's funeral. She called and said "Book of What?" We still laugh about that.
Just to be clear, are you and Daniel saying that the Church the Body of Christ will be going through the tribulation? I’m not fully clear on what you both are saying..:)
You quote a priest and a book, but no verifiable source. Could you also post that?
caught up does not mean rapture.
I can be caught up in a maze and not find my way out of it. Or caught up in a task and get distracted from fixing supper.
What about the Bible saying that Christ will only come once more at the General Judgement?
Doesn’t a rapture insinuate that Christ comes and takes some people.
At the General Judgment (Book of Revelation) is when we see Christ coming on a cloud.
You put that very well, thanks.
** Perhaps that’s what Salvation was thinking. At any rate...&&
Just like believers of other faiths are always saying that Purgatory is not in the Bible, but the words, purge, cleanse, clean are.
LOL!
** Perhaps that’s what Salvation was thinking. At any rate...&&
Just like believers of other faiths are always saying that Purgatory is not in the Bible, but the words, purge, cleanse, clean are.
LOL!
The Three Days of Darkness & Prophecies of Latter Times [Catholic Caucus]
Good to hear your point of view here, thanks!
But there are many references to Purgatory, just as some on this thread are claiming there are reference to rapture.
If the material universe is not to be itself fully fulfilled but merely burned up, then why did G-d create it in the first place?
The fact is there have been multiple views about the end times. I don't accept any Church's Dogma about a certain viewpoint. I read and study the Bible and come up with my own conclusions. I trust Christ with my soul. The rest like eschatology does not effect my salvation status anyway. So I tend to be tolerant of any viewpoint regarding how the world will come to an end and the arrival of the Kingdom. But we need to get facts straight.
The Bible when read for me indicates that there will be a rapture then the second coming. And in the end it does not really matter. If you have not accepted Christ as savior then hellfire awaits regardless of any personal eschatological view.
Rather, since i am a evangelical Protestant, i am free to go where the truth leads, and examine truth claims by Scripture, in accordance with the manner of doctrinal exegesis it teaches, as noble men whom the Holy Spirit commends did, (Acts 17:11) and upon which warrant Christ established His claims and thus the church, rather than giving implicit assent of faith to a self-proclaimed assuredly infallible magisterium (sola ecclesia).
The reality is rather than doctrinal anarchy characterizing historical Protestantism, those who hold to the supremacy of Scripture are marked by a common assent to core truths, and thus contend against cults who deny them.
While characteristically commonly holding to core truth, those who hold to Sola Scriptura do have disagreements in other areas, and likewise Roman Catholics must hold to certain core truths, while allowing varying degrees of disagreement in other things.
And under sola ecclesia there are also formal divisions. The difference between the two models is only a matter of degrees, while groups actually operate according to the means of Rome - that of a supreme magisterium acting as if it was assuredly infallible (sola ecclesia) - teach the more perverse things.
Being Catholic, I take the word of the Church, not words of individual priests. I always look for the words nihil obstat (declaration) and Imprimature (Let it be printed.). Those words make whatever is printed official Church-backed information.
Actually, despite your assurance of doctrine you assert you find in Rome, there is much disagreement and uncertainty, which even extends to what considered “infallible teaching.”
Can you tell me how many infallible teachings there are? Are all encyclicals infallible? Is everything in the Roman Catholic catechism infallible? Is everything Trent taught infallible?
So far, I've not seen hide nor hair of nihil obstat and Imprimature.
Well, the very article of the OP which you responding to has none, but your statement is just another example of the confusion that exists in Roman Catholicism, in which many opinions are offered as what kind of assurance these stamps provide. Some see them as assuring orthodoxy, while others do not even bother to seek them anymore, despite its history and the weight the Catechism places on such approval.
But since you see these as assuring such are official Church-backed information, then if you must defend such, you must support such teachings as that,
* Genesis 2 (Adam and Eve and creation details) and Gn. 3 (the story of the Fall), Gn. 4:1-16 (Cain and Abel), Gn. 6-8 (Noah and the Flood), and Gn. 11:1-9 are “folktales,” using allegory to teach a religious lesson
*The story of Balaam and the donkey and the angel (Num. 22:1-21; 22:36-38) was a fable, while the records of Gn. (chapters) 37-50 (Joseph), 12-36 (Abraham, Issaac, Jacob), Exodus, Judges 13-16 (Samson) 1Sam. 17 (David and Goliath) and that of the Exodus are stories which are "historical at their core," but overall the author simply used "traditions" to teach a religious lesson.
*The ages of the patriarchs after the flood are artificial and devoid of historical value.
*The Israelites crossed over the Reed Sea, which was “probably a body of shallow water somewhat to the north of the present deep Red Sea” (yet perhaps making the drowning of Pharaoh's army equally miraculous).
*Matthew may have only placed Jesus in Egypt to convince his readers that Jesus was the real Israel, and may have only represented Jesus giving the Sermon on the Mount on a mount.
And there is more, and to which can be added such things as papal sanction of torture of theological deviants, or suspects of such, and burning of heretics, of which class Rome now calls separated brethren.
Your post 13 brings up another question. If you don’t believe in the rapture then you must believe that faithful Christians must go through the time of the wrath of God. Would you show from scripture just one time that those who have been faithful to God had to endure His wrath?
Correct. Also that Mary was bodily assumed into heaven or that she is the “queen of heaven”.
Oh really?
First of all I would have thought you would have put more time investigating the meaning of rapiemur. I’m disappointed in your response Salvation. Did you actually think the RCC made a mistake in the Dewy Rheams and the Latin Vulgate as well? Check here; http://www.latinvulgate.com/verse.aspx?t=1&b=13&c=4.
Even the answers found at catholic.com would disagree with the Catholics on this forum it seems.
“The word Rapture is connected to the Latin word rapiemur, which appears in Paul’s first letter to the Thessalonians in the Latin Vulgate translation of the Bible. It means to be raised up or caught up: Therefore, Catholics believe that those Christians who are still living at the Second Coming of Christ will be gathered together with those who have died in Christ to be forever with the Lord. Catholics do not generally use the term Rapture, nor do they believe in a Rapture that will take place some time before the Second Coming, as do many Evangelicals.” Jim Blackburn http://www.catholic.com/quickquestions/do-catholics-believe-in-the-rapture.
It would appear that in fact Catholics do believe in the rapture but at a later time than many Protestants.
Now that brings up a question. If Catholics think the faithful Christians will be here during the time of the wrath of God they obviously believe that faithful Christians will experience the wrath of God. Would you please show from scripture where faithful followers of God had to endure His wrath as Catholics evidently believe they will in the end times?
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