It May Look Good on Paper [Mormonism]

..................Some of us who have experienced the Mormon life firsthand would rather choose a messy, colorful America.

While it's easy to be seduced by a church known for its practicality, its financial acumen and its commitment to both self-betterment and worldly outreach, I wouldn't buy the underwear just yet. Everything comes with a caveat.

Mormons typically create their perfect world not by embracing the future, but by fetishizing the past. The very qualities America might want — prudence, thrift, even contentment — come at a price. The Mormon way is steadfastly patriarchal; women can't hold the priesthood, and are encouraged to be as procreative as possible. Their rigid concept of "family" owes more to the early 1950s than the 20-teens.

A culture that walks in such tidy lockstep has the advantage of homogeneity, and will always look good on paper. It certainly works for my many cousins, whom I love. But some of us who have experienced the Mormon life firsthand would rather choose a messy, colorful America lurching forward without so many confines — every day and twice on Sunday.

i posted this on another thread...so call me a spammer, i don’t care

it bears repeating

You would think that Utah, whose population is between 2/3 to 3/4 LDS depending on who you ask, should be one of our most peaceful, family oriented states in America, with such a preponderance of pious people in it.

Think Again...

UTAH’S 1998-2008 REVIEW (see below):

CHILD ABUSE AND NEGLECT
In 2005, Utah had 32,203 total referrals for child abuse and neglect. Of those, 21,052 reports were referred for investigation. 7
In 2005, 8,173 children were substantiated or indicated as abused or neglected in Utah, a rate of 17.7 per 1,000 children, and representing a 3.4% decrease from 2004. Of these children, 20.7% were neglected, 14.7% were physically abused, and 19.3% were sexually abused. 8
In 2005, 10 children died as a result of abuse or neglect in Utah. 9
In 2005, 2,285 children in Utah lived apart from their families in out-of-home care, compared with 2,108 children in 2004. In 2005, 22.5% of the children living apart from their families were age 5 or younger, and 27.4% were 16 or older. 10
Of the children in out-of-home care in 2005, 63.5% were white, 4.7% black, 22.5% Hispanic, 5.7% American Indian/Alaskan Native, and 3.5% children of other races and ethnicities. 11
*****************************************************************************************************************
Divorces per 1,000 Population Utah-4.60 MA-2.40 NY -3.20 NJ-3.0

Murder per 100,000 Pop. Utah-3.90 NH-1.70 IO-1.70 ND-0.90

Rape per 100,000 Pop. Utah-42.70 NY -23.70 CA-33.40 VA-27.20

*Source US Census Bureau

Antidepressant drugs are prescribed in Utah more often than in any other state, at a rate nearly twice the national average. Other states with high antidepressant use were Maine and Oregon. Utah’s rate of antidepressant use was twice the rate of California and nearly three times the rates in New York and New Jersey, the study showed. Few here question the veracity of the study, which was a tabulation of prescription orders, said Dr. Curtis Canning, president of the Utah Psychiatric Assn. “In the LDS church, there is a social expectation and women suppression with the males dominating the females who are expected to put on a mask, say ‘Yes’ to everything that comes at her and hide the misery and pain. It’s called the ‘Mother of Zion’ syndrome. The study did not break down drug use by sex. But according to statistics from the National Institute of Mental Health, about twice as many women as men suffer from depressive disorders.

Discussion of the issue inevitably falls along Utah’s traditional fault lines. Some suggest that Utah’s unique Mormon culture—70% of the state’s population belongs to the church—requires perfection and the public presentation of a happy face, whatever may be happening privately. The argument goes that women in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints are beset by particular pressures and are not encouraged to acknowledge their struggles or suppression. “Look around, you can easily find people who take them. I think it’s the cultural environment,” said Helen Wright, whose three grown children also take antidepressants. “Most men here would just as soon their wives take pills than bother to delve into the problems, and maybe find out they might have something to do with the problems.” Utah also leads the nation in the use of narcotic painkillers such as codeine and morphine-based drugs, the study found. “It’s like HappyValley here,” Cindy Mann said, describing the SaltLakeValley. “It’s a scary place sometimes. People don’t talk about their problems. Everything is always rosy. That’s how we got ourselves into this mess—we’re good at ignoring things.”

Salt Lake Tribune, Nov 23, 1998—A9

FBI Report: Crime Falls Nationally, But Climbs Again in Utah

As the nation celebrates a six-year decrease in serious crime, Utah’s crime rate went up—again.

An FBI report released Sunday showed that serious violent and property crimes went down 3 percent nationally. But crime in Utah went up 3.8 percent in 1997, continuing a four-year-trend.

Not only is the state’s crime rate climbing, but more Utahns on average are victims of crime.

Nationally, an average of 4,923 out of 100,000 are affected by crime. In Utah, the number is 5,661 people— 13 percent higher than the national rate.

Utah was one of 15 states whose crime rates increased in 1997.

Florida had the highest rate at 7,272 crimes per 100,000 people. West Virginia was lowest with 2,469 crimes per 100,000 people. . .

In Salt lake City, 11,969 people out of 100,000 were victims of crime in 1997. . .

Report details scope of home violence
Utah’s rate of females murdered by males tops the national average

Salt lake Tribune, Feb 17, 2004
“...The 2004 Utah Domestic Violence Annual Report, created by the state Domestic Violence Cabinet Council...In 2001, the report notes, Utah’s rate of females murdered by males in one-on-one incidents was 23% higher than the corresponding national rate.”

Utah: Salt Lake City

Nearly half of the 131 women killed between 1994 and 1999 in Utah were slain by husbands or boyfriends, according to a report released by state health department officials. They urged judges, prosecutors and clergy to pay more attention to the signs of domestic violence and to intervene before it escalates. USA Today

The New York Times clearly illustrates a recurring problem within the Mormon Church–child abuse. Child abuse is consistently higher in Utah than in the nation as a whole. It is a blight on Mormonism. Utah social workers have been quoted as being “blackly pessimistic” about the problem in their state.

All of this flies in the face of the projected image of Mormonism as a society which places the family at the highest level of its concern.

Of course Mormon authorities love children and want what’s best for them. The failure of Mormonism stems from its hidebound structure. This is the religion of polygamy, patriarchy, and Blood Atonement. Such a culture simply doesn’t have the ability to wave a wand of psychobabble over the Church and make everything right. Mormon social problems are systemic.

One of the worst areas of offense in Mormonism is uncovered in the following article. This story is repeated over and over again as the good old boys have their way with women and children in the ashes of Brigham Young’s Mormonism

Sex Abuse Lawsuit Is Settled By Mormons for $3 Million

By Gustav Niebuhr
New York Times Sep. 5, 2001, A-14

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints disclosed yesterday that it would pay $3 million to settle a suit by an Oregon man who said he was sexually abused as a child by a church member. The suit said Mormon officials had known well in advance of that abuse that the accused man had also faced child molesting allegations before.

The case is unusual not only because the church disclosed the amount of the settlement, in advance of news conferences by the plaintiffs’ lawyers today, but also because it centers on alleged abuse by a man who held no ministerial or leadership role. That man died in 1995.

In an interview, Von G. Keetch, a Salt Lake City lawyer representing the church, said it strongly believed that the case ‘’lacked merit’’ and had settled only out of concern that the litigation, already a decade old, could continue for years more, at high cost.

Mr. Keetch said the decision was made after a number of rulings against the church by a county judge presiding over the case in Portland. Among the rulings were that the church could be held liable for the conduct of one member against another, and that the plaintiff could argue that the abuser was a clergyman because he held the title of high priest, which the church describes as a common lay designation.

The settlement follows by two weeks the disclosure of another settlement by a religious institution in a sexual abuse case. In that instance, two Roman Catholic dioceses in Southern California said they had paid $5.2 million to a man who maintained that as a high school student a decade ago, he was molested by a priest.

The Oregon suit was filed in December 1998 by a Portland man, Jeremiah Scott, who eventually sought $1.5 billion in damages from the church. He accused its authorities of withholding knowledge from his family that another member, Franklyn Curtis, had previously been accused of molesting children.

His lawyer, David Slader, said Mr. Scott was abused in 1991, the year he turned 11, after his mother invited Mr. Curtis to live with the family. Mr. Curtis, who was 88 and had been living in a group home, was a member of the same congregation as the Scotts.

Before bringing Mr. Curtis into her home, Mr. Slader said, Mrs. Scott sought advice from a local Mormon bishop, who advised the family against it because it would be too much work, but who did not inform them of the earlier accusations.

Mr. Slader noted that Mr. Curtis had been previously excommunicated after being accused of molesting children. But when he came to live with the Scotts, his membership had been restored and he held the title of high priest. He had not been criminally charged with abuse at that point, but later pleaded guilty to molesting Mr. Scott, Mr. Slader said.

‘’It’s the institution that knew,’’ Mr. Slader said, referring to church authorities. ‘’A church,’’ he added, ‘’owes a very, very special and high duty to the children of its parishioners, the children whose souls it has taken responsibility for.’’

Mr. Keetch, the lawyer for the church, quoted the bishop who advised the Scotts as saying in a deposition that he had known of no abuse accusations against Mr. Curtis. Mr. Keetch said Mr. Curtis had been excommunicated in the 1980’s in Pennsylvania, where he lived before moving back to Oregon. The decision to excommunicate, Mr. Keetch said, followed another Oregon bishop’s notifying church authorities in Pennsylvania that Mr. Curtis had been accused of having ‘’inappropriately touched a child’’ in an Oregon congregation different from the one where he and the Scotts were later members together. To have excommunicated Mr. Curtis over his conduct would indicate it WAS a serious offense and that it was known to the church who keep meticulous records on every member.

Mr. Curtis was readmitted to membership ‘’after a fairly lengthy period of repentance,’’ Mr. Keetch said, but never had any supervisory position over Mr. Scott and in fact had no leadership position at all. According to the church, the title of high priest is bestowed on Mormon men in good standing over the age of 40.

Mr. Keetch said he believed there was ‘’no church that does more either to protect children or to provide assistance to children’’ who have been abused.— This is a TOTAL LIE! The LDS leadership as the attitude that “right or wrong we have the final say” as quoted by Oscar McKonkie Jr. attorney for Gordon Hinckley and that women and children have no rights –as indicative by the belief and current practice of polygamy and polygamous sealings in the LDS temples of men to multiple wives in cases of divorce or death.

Utah Rape Statistics—2003

Rape Crime in Utah Well Above National Average

A federal report shows that one in five adult women in Utah—or a total of 157,000 women in the state—has been forcibly raped at least once in her lifetime. The report comes from the South Carolina-based National Violence Against Women Prevention Research Center, giving Utah the top spot in the continental United States for its estimated percentage of rape victims. “Our findings clearly demonstrate the fact that Utah has a substantial rape problem,” said the report from the research group, which was established and is partly funded by the federal Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC).

“I was shocked to see this,” said Jamee Roberts, executive director of the Salt Lake City-based RapeRecoveryCenter. “I knew we were bad; I had no idea we were this bad. We should be hanging our heads in shame.” She added that the numbers are reliable and can be trusted. Only Alaska (20.9% of its women raped versus 20.6% in Utah compared to 13.4% of all women nationally) has a higher rate in the United States. The estimates are said to be conservative because they do not include the cases of women who have experienced attempted rape; rapes where the women were unconscious or impaired by drugs or alcohol; or statutory rape where there was no force. (Salt LakeTribune, 7/12/03)

Utah has highest rate of “Food Insecurity”
Child poverty rate up
Utah leads nation in bankruptcy

Excerpted from:
Salt LakeTribune
11-24-03 B1

“Job growth reported in media, but where is it? Utahns wonder”

According to the Utah Department of Agriculture, Utah has the highest rate of “food insecurity”–a measure that reports the number of people who worry where there next meal is coming from–in the nation.

The US Census Bureau reports that the overall poverty rate in Utah jumped 1.1 percent between 2001 and 2002. Utah was one of eight states the Census Bureau found had a “significant change” in its poverty rate.

Movement of the state’s child poverty rate was even more staggering. In 2002, Utah’s child poverty rate jumped 4.3 percent, according to the Census Bureau. Only Massachusetts had a more dramatic increase in the number of children living in poverty…

Utah’s foreclosure rate is almost double that of the national average. The only alternative [for some people] to save their home is] filing for bankruptcy–another inauspicious category in which Utah leads the nation.

Utah is No 1 in Mortgage Fraud!

Utah has dismal rate of mortgage fraud. SLC is ranked No. 1 in early payment defaults

A company that monitors mortgage fraud activity nationwide has ranked the Salt Lake City metropolitan area as the worst in the country for potentially fraudulent home loans in default.

More than a third of the software programs installed in Utah homes and businesses are illegal copies, providing the state with the highest piracy rate in the country, a new study shows.

Tuesday, October 30, 2001 USA Today

Utah:Salt Lake City – Sate officials said that domestic violence cases are climbing in Utah, unlike those in the nation overall. A U.S. Justice Department report showed that domestic violence against women in the USA fell by 41% between 1993 and 1999. Nearly 5,000 women and children stayed at Utah shelters last year, a 32% hike from 1999, according the Division of Child and Family Services.

UTAH’S CHILDREN 2008
Utah’s Children At a Glance

State Population 1 2,550,063
Population, Children Under 18 2 742,556
State Poverty Rate 3 9.3%
Poverty Rate, Children Under 18 4 12.6%
Poverty Rate, Children Ages 5-17 5 11.5%
Poverty Rate, Children Under 5 6 13.8%
All statistics are for 2006.

CHILD ABUSE AND NEGLECT
In 2005, Utah had 32,203 total referrals for child abuse and neglect. Of those, 21,052 reports were referred for investigation. 7
In 2005, 8,173 children were substantiated or indicated as abused or neglected in Utah, a rate of 17.7 per 1,000 children, and representing a 3.4% decrease from 2004. Of these children, 20.7% were neglected, 14.7% were physically abused, and 19.3% were sexually abused. 8
In 2005, 10 children died as a result of abuse or neglect in Utah. 9
In 2005, 2,285 children in Utah lived apart from their families in out-of-home care, compared with 2,108 children in 2004. In 2005, 22.5% of the children living apart from their families were age 5 or younger, and 27.4% were 16 or older. 10
Of the children in out-of-home care in 2005, 63.5% were white, 4.7% black, 22.5% Hispanic, 5.7% American Indian/Alaskan Native, and 3.5% children of other races and ethnicities.
****************************************************************

’ I’m not a Mormon but I wonder how Catholics would like it if Mormons started talking about the “Magic Bread.” ‘

i have not heard of supernatural powers associated with the consumption of the host from any Catholics in my recollection

as an ex-mormon i’ve heard plenty about the supernatural properties of temple garments, or ‘magic underwear’

went looking for corroboration and found a message board where mormons and ex-mormons were discussing “lds urban legends”...magic underwear stories, among others

enjoy

Mormons are fond of spreading “faith-promoting rumors.” Members so badly want for the church to be true, in the absence of any evidence they are prone to grab on to anything that might help promote that belief. Then that rumor gets repeated and embellished to the point where most actually believe it to be true. Here are my top ten, yours may differ.

1- The Smithsonian Institute uses the Book of Mormon in its research.
This one started over a hundred years ago and just won’t die. Periodically the Smithsonian Institute (and the National Geographical Society) sends notices to the church saying “please, please tell your people to stop calling us. We have never found any connection with your book and any archeology discovered in the Americas.”

2- Polygamy was needed in the early church because there was an overabundance of single women who needed husbands.
Not so! A check of every census record of Illinois and Utah, from 1840 through 1900 reveals that (like all western frontier locations) men outnumbered the women by a good margin.

3- The LDS church has no paid ministry.
This in true only at the local level through the stake presidency. The top 85 or 90 leaders (General Authorities) do quite well. They receive a salary, allowances, and also are paid as board members for the vast number of church-owned corporations. In the early history of the church, Joseph had a revelation that God desired “he should not labor” and in an act of nepotism, he named his dad the “patriarch,” authorizing him to charge a dollar a blessing. (today’s patriarchs receive no compensation)

4- The LDS church is the fastest growing church in the world.
It’s certainly fast growing, but if you are talking raw numbers, the Catholic church is probably growing fifty times as fast, simply from the birth rate alone. If you are talking percentages, the Assembly of God in Brazil went from almost zero to ten million in only four years! It took the LDS over 160 years to reach that level.

5- The reason the original LDS temple ceremony and the Masonic ritual were virtually identical was that they were both the original ceremonies of Solomon’s Temple.
Completely untrue! Secret ceremonies weren’t practiced in Solomon’s Temple, it was open. Masonic leaders will explain that when Masonry originated in the 16th century, few people could read or write, so it designed a ritual of skits and symbolism to convey its message, as was done in Solomon’s time. Within a few days after he became a Master Mason, Joseph simply copied the same ceremony for the Mormon Church.

6- The church name, “Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints,” is divinely inspired.
If it is, God sure fumbled around a good while before doling out a little inspiration. The original church name in 1830 was “Church of Christ.” In 1834 it was changed to “Church of the Latter Day Saints.” Then four years later, in 1838 it was again changed to its present name.

7- Joseph Smith made a great prophecy in 1842, the Rocky Mountain prophecy, by predicting the Mormons would come to the Rocky Mountains and become a mighty people.
Church historian Dean Jessee produced the original manuscript from History of the Church showing the authorship was in 1845, after Smith’s death. Then years later, after the Saints were in Utah, someone penciled “Rocky Mountains” into the document. Jessee was chastised for revealing this historical tidbit.

8- After Joseph Smith was killed, the apostles knew Brigham Young was the successor by his “transformation” into the image of Joseph.
All the apostles were requested to keep diaries, which are now historical documents. On this Aug. 8, 1844 meeting not a single one recorded it. It didn’t pop up as a folk legend until about twenty years later.

9- In the first year of the Mormon settlement in Utah, a plague of locusts (Mormon crickets) threatened to wipe out their crops. God responded with a “miracle”, sending an army of seagulls to devour the insects.
This one is true — however the miracle part is somewhat embellished. The locusts have a seven-year hibernation cycle, and unfortunately the early settlers hit it on the end of the seventh year. For mutual protection, they had made the mistake of planting all their fields together. Therefore, the locust attack was concentrated in one spot in the valley. And the seagulls, which by their fossil remains have been at the Great Salt Lake for over 2,000 years, simply enjoyed their every-seven-year feast. They still do — only now it’s spread over thousands of square miles. (2001 was a bad year, 2008 is next).

10- And for the last one, I want to collectively group thousands of “magic underwear” tales. You’ve got to hear some of these! When any TBM survives any accident, calamity, or near miss, the reason is always attributed to his/her wearing the holy drawers.
The reality is that safety records, medical records, and the observations of safety experts, paramedics and hospital emergency room personnel all show that Mormons have the same percentages of accidents per capita, and the same injury/death ratios as anybody else in the general population. But the imagined protection continues to make good fodder for monthly Testimony Meetings.

Subject: Re: Top Ten Mormon Urban Legends
Date: Aug 09 16:35
Author: notamo
Mail Address:

I’m not Mormon. What’s with the underwear?

Subject: Mormons wear secret, magic underwear.
Date: Aug 09 23:05
Author: Cheryl

They think it protects them from harm. It’s sounds strange because it is strange, but true!!!!!

Subject: Notamo....magic undies...
Date: Aug 09 17:28
Author: LAMANWASRIGHT

Magic undies are Mormon’s sacred undergarments, which are white, usually cotton or other material and are extremely unnattractive. They are long enough to keep women from wearing miniskirts, and cover enough arm skin to keep Mormon men and women from showing too much sexy arm. No joke.

They recieve these garments after going through a very amusing Temple ceremony. In different parts of the garments, there are symbols sewn into them, and each symbol means something sacred. Mormons are not allowed to talk about the ceremony outside the Temple, not even about the symbols. But many exmo’s here have been through the temple and I’m sure they would be glad to tell you alot more. I hope someone here provides you with links to pictures of the garmies for a good laugh!

LWR

Subject: Re: Top Ten Mormon Urban Legends
Date: Aug 09 17:29
Author: Percy
Mail Address:

There was a story going around several years ago that a tornado went through an area and wrecked many homes but a ward building was left standing.

There is also a story about two missionaries killed and shortly afterwards (1950’s I think) twin tornados came through the town and destroyed many buildings and killed alot of people. It was God’s revenge.

Subject: 30 more “urban” legends
Date: Aug 09 18:07
Author: PRAVDA
Mail Address:

My list:

1-Abraham wrote his biography upon papyrus and JS translated it into the Book of Abraham.

2-Ancient Inhabitants of the Americas, descendent of Jews wrote their stories in golden plates and JS translated them into the Book of Mormon.

3-There was a religious revival in Manchester, New York in 1820

4-Joseph Smith was a young man confused about religion. One day he went to pray and God and Jesus appeared to him and made him a prophet.

5-Angels and prophets came down from heaven in droves to instruct young Joseph in the prophetic arts.

6-Joseph was a man of unquestionable character and great faith.

7-The witnesses of the Book of Mormon saw actual golden plates with their physical eyes and touched them uncovered at the same time they were looking at them.

8-The witnesses of the Book of Mormon never denied their testimonies.

9-Professor Anton validated Joseph Smith’s translation of the Book of Mormon.

10-Joseph Looked at the plates while he translated them and dictated their contents to Oliver Cowdery, who sat next to him behind a curtain, to keep him from seeing the plates.

11-The BoM predicts Columbus’ discovery (or insert here any other alleged “prediction” — hindsight is not prophecy)

12-The mormons were persecuted for opposing slavery.

13-Brigham Young was firm, but overall a nice guy.

14-Mormon Prophets have always been law-abiding citizens.

15-The church had nothing to do with MMM.

16-The three nephites roam the earth (insert collection of sightings here)

17-The spirits of the dead visit temples (insert collection of sightings here)

18-The dead help the living find their genealogy (insert testimonials here)

19-Jesus talks to the modern prophet in the temple face to face.

20-Whom the Lord Calls, the Lord qualifies.

21-Bigfoot is Cain

22-God shall not be mocked.

23-Apostates leave the church either because they’ve been offended or because they aren’t “valiant enough” to keep the commandments.

24-There is proof out there that the Book of Mormon is true (i.e. Stela 5 of Izapa).

25-Qetzalcoatl was really Jesus.

26-BYU archaeologists have found evidence of the Book of Abraham.

27-The only “evidence” against the BoM is lack of artifacts.

28-The Pope and a few monks know that the LDS church is true because the Vatican vaults contain some of the missing books of the bible which clearly show that fact. They keep them hidden because if they came out it would mean the end of the Catholic church.

29-When the apostles get together they seek the spirit and all always agree, because they are inspired.

30-Jesus is coming back. He will come to the temple first

I could go on, but now that I think about it the whole church and anything that comes out of it isn’t much more than urban legends.

Subject: You left behind one of the ones most of us have seen
Date: Aug 10 02:26
Author: LarryD

How about “They are excommunicated. You want to stay away from them or you are going to be just like them.”

Is rationale somehowe infectious?

When we were exed, there was an article in the Church News by our favorite columnist GBH urging all members to not forget those who had be exed or disfellowship, but try to visit regularly to help them return to the fold.

It was 18 months later before we sae a member of the church in our home and it was only because she wanted me to do something for her personally at church. No danger getting infected with what we had!

Christ taugh forgiveness. When does that become an item of importance for Mormons?

Subject: Great Post! Here’s some more to add to your list...
Date: Aug 09 17:53
Author: Deconstructor
Mail Address:

- The Three Nephites
Lots of stories about these guys roaming around like Highlander.

- Jesus Visits the Temple Regularly to Talk with the Prophet
All the “temple lights were on last night” stories go under here.

- Priesthood Blessings
There’s at least as many stories about blessings as garments. Mormons use the same selective memory trick with blessings. If they live, it’s the priesthood, if they die, it was meant to be so you should be happy.

- The Spirit Helped My Find My Lost Keys/Purse/Wallet/Credit Card/ etc..
‘nuf said.

- We Met Each Other/Were a Family Before We Were Born
Remember the old “My Turn On Earth” and “Saturday’s Warrior” roadshow crap? Lots of urban legends about this.

- Indian Skin Turning White After Joining the Church
There were lots of stories about this during the 1950s and 60s. Even Kimball spread these stories around.

- America’s Founding Fathers are Mormons
There’s the story of the founding fathers all appearing to a prophet in the St. George temple and demanding thier temple work be done. There’s the Mormon leaders saying the Constitution was “inspired” and is “scripture.” Then there’s the new huge statue in Provo of Jefferson, Washington and Franklin all kneeling in prayer Mormon-style.

I could go on... there’s just so many. Mormons thrive on this drivel.

Subject: Re: Great Post! Here’s some more to add to your list...
Date: Aug 09 18:05
Author: Captain Entenille
Mail Address:

I considered the 3 Nephites and the curse of the Lamanite skin, but both of these are (screwy) doctrine, rather than faith-promoting rumors.

However, I didn’t think about Kimball’s “by golly, I think their skin is getting lighter” quote. A lot of TBMs were going around repeating this.

Good additions! several of these would be in my second ten.

Subject: Kimball was probably right...but for the wrong reasons...
Date: Aug 10 02:33
Author: LarryD

Lets choose people I know. The Navajos. Kids today are oftem lighter skinned than their parents seem to be. Not much secret as to why. Instreat of spending their youth outside under the hot southwest sun herding animals or working in the fields, the last few generations have been housed in airconditioned classrooms far away from the sun, or firmly planted infront of the television - also far away from the sun.
Less sun - less tan= lighter skin tone.
A no brainer

Subject: A couple of clarifications
Date: Aug 09 18:29
Author: bruises and all sick cattle
Mail Address:

Captain Entenille wrote:

3- The LDS church has no paid ministry.
.... The top 85 or 90 leaders (General Authorities) do quite well. They receive a salary, allowances, and also are paid as board members for the vast number of church-owned corporations. ....

Actually, the church removed all GAs from the boards of its corporations a few years ago. It’s not allowed anymore.

4- The LDS church is the fastest growing church in the world.
It’s certainly fast growing, but if you are talking raw numbers,

Actually, it’s not. The American Religious Indentification Survey (ARIS) showed that the church is hardly growing at all in the US, and practically all of that growth is “natural” growth, not conversion. The survey results also showed that as many people in the US are leaving mormonism as joining.

ARIS did not give figures for outside of the US, but it is known that retention in practically all foreign countries is negligible. Unit attendance figures (as low as they are) can make the retention seem higher, but a significant number of the attendees are “investigators” (and a lot of kids) who are not members and will never be. The LDS church’s membership numbers bear as much relationship to reality as Enron’s finances did.

Actually, it’s not true. The seagull “miracle” wasn’t considered a miracle until years after the fact. At the time weather was considered as important a factor in crop loss as the crickets. Also, seagull intervention was not some large, global event, but was sporadic and localized. See Hartley’s “Mormons, Crickets and Gulls: A New Look at an Old Story” in The New Mormon History: Revisionist Essays on the Past for more details.

Subject: What happened to the quail at winter quarters?
Date: Aug 10 02:36
Author: LarryD

These birds came into camp so tame they could be captured by hand and saved the saints from starvation
Could it have been they were frozen and seeking shelter in the wagons from the wind on the flat prarie?

Subject: the three nephites are everywhere!
Date: Aug 09 19:07
Author: Poker Face

Every helpful stranger who has ever shared a gas can with a mormon or otherwise fortuitously appeared to help a mormon in need has been attributed as one of the three freakin’ nephites.

This legend is the mormon equivalent of belief in faeries. It’s crazy.

PokerFace

Subject: Re: Top Ten Mormon Urban Legends
Date: Aug 09 19:23
Author: wonderman

Here’s one I heard a few years ago:

In one of the temples, a temple worker became aware of a large crowd gathering in the foyer. She assumed it was a busload of people just arriving to go through and went about her business. Then she observed two very large men dressed in armor and carrying swords who positioned themselves in the entryway so as not to allow the people inside the temple. The temple worker realized that the men were angels protecting the temple from a horde of demons.

I wondered, since both angels and demons are immortal, why would the angels bother to wear armor or carry swords?

Subject: Got to say something on this one....
Date: Aug 09 19:48
Author: A Voice form the past...
Mail Address:

First off, swords are the (near) universal symbol and weapon of truth, righteousness. I do not know why, but the human psyche is almost hard-wired that way. THe sword is a symbol of power, devine right for more human clutures than any other weapon. In fact, every culture that developed the sword has placed a special regard to its mystery and power.

Armor is also symbolic of spiritual protection.

And even though demons and angels may be immotral, it does not make them immutable. A demon can still be cut into little pieces, it would still hurt, and take a long time for the demon to pull itself together again, and even then, it could be ‘alive’ for the whole time. This based on the understanding of spirits and demons I have from my studies, I have limited first hand knowledge.

But, taking what this worker saw at face values (which is a big suspension of disbelief).... Why would a horde of demons be attracted to the Temple? Think about it for a moment, if the temple were so holy, then wouldn’t the very nature of the temple protect it from direct interaction by the demons. Demons being creatures of evil (by definition) cannot tolerate or abide good, and spiritual purity is actually painful to them (another truely universal axiom of the spirit realm, as understood by almost every culture of humans on earth). So, if they were trying to get in, then the temple could not be the ‘holiest place on earth’ now, could it?

Anyway, just some thoughts and information

Subject: The Empty Sea
Date: Aug 09 20:05
Author: al-marek

Uh, MTC.

While there (1984) I heard the following “faith-promoting” rumor:
A mercenary at the Empty Sea had had a dream that there were Nephite warriors guarding every door and window at the Empty Sea. Also, he saw legions of angels descending from above to guard the Clubhouse from hordes of demons. The demons were trying to destroy the Celestial Triangle (MTC-BYU-temple), but the legions of Nephite warriors kept them at bay. This mercenary related this dream to a visiting GA who “confirmed” that it was true.

And speaking of the Clubhouse:
Rumor is that the pres of the Provo Clubhouse lived near the Clubhouse. One night, at about 2 am, he got up for a drink of water. (There must have been a monster outside his room.) He noticed that the lights inside the Clubhouse were on. As he made preparations to dress and investigate, the phone rang. It was the profit of the cult, telling the Clubhouse pres that “the Lord” was in “His House”, you know, just looking around, and that the Clubhouse pres should just go back to bed.

al-marek

Subject: I heard that one too when I was in the Empty Sea
Date: Aug 10 02:57
Author: Buffalo Bill Shakespeare
Mail Address:

Subject: Cain
Date: Aug 09 19:58
Author: percy
Mail Address:

I remember my sister and I talking in great depth about Cain roaming the earth and wondering if he was in fact Bigfoot.
We also had long talks about the 3 nephites LOL

Oh gosh and I really believed all that.

Another thing I remember hearing over the years (and first told by missionaries who baptized me) is how UFO’s came to earth during the time of the pyramids but they weren’t aliens as we would think but from another of God’s planets and were more spiritually advanced than we are.
That most of the UFO sightings are connected with the doctrine and Kolob.

Does anyone else remember hearing that or did I just happen to run into whacko mormons all the time?

Subject: I’d almost forgotten about the UFO-Kolob connection.
Date: Aug 10 00:35
Author: JoeF
Mail Address:

I remember talk of all that nonsense now. Didn’t the line of thinking go something like, “They could buzz-bomb the planet, but direct contact was prohibited.” Or some such BS. If I hadn’t spent so many years preparing the sacrament - I’d say they must’ve put some mind-altering drug in it.

JoeF

Subject: The Holy Ghost will stop you from divulging temple secrets.
Date: Aug 09 20:21
Author: Sobriquet

My TBM mom was really big on this one. It cracks me up when I look back on how melodramatic she’d get when she’d catch herself starting to say too much.

We’d be sitting there talking about the temple, and she’d suddenly stop talking and put her hand over her mouth. When I’d ask her what’s wrong, she’d say, “The Spirit stopped me from talking,” or “The Holy Ghost made me mute because I was starting to tell you too much.” She was very dramatic about it.

I guess I shouldn’t think it’s funny because she was probably terrified that someone or something would soon be coming to slit her throat.

Actually, I’m pissed! Damn cult doing that to my mom!

Subject: RE: #10...could you tell me what study looked at Mormon injury/death ratios...
Date: Aug 09 21:33
Author: Sagan’s Choice
Mail Address:

Also, the “observations of safety experts, paramedics and hospital emergency room personnel” statement sounds pretty subjective. What is your information source?

Thanks

Subject: temple elevators
Date: Aug 09 22:32
Author: nonmemberfriend
Mail Address:

The rumor was, the salt lake temple was designed with these little rooms on each floor, one above the other through inspiration. Nobody knew WHY the little rooms existed. Years later, elevators were installed connecting all the rooms as vertical shafts, and then everyone KNEW god had that in mind the whole time and had inspired the design.

Similarly, the tabernacle rumor I heard was that the ceiling was designed with all these passageways and holes, and years later... WAALA! they were perfect for running electrical wires and lighting. God Again had inspired the architects.

Subject: The seagulls saved the crops, BUT...less than 5% of the journals that the church
Date: Aug 10 00:00
Author: SamIAm
Mail Address:

has from that time even mention seeing a single seagull on that day. But hey, look on the bright side, we here in Utah now have the most popular fowl found at trash dumps as our state bird!

Subject: Did you hear the legend of the unworthy temple attendees?
Date: Aug 10 01:51
Author: All ears
Mail Address:

There was the rumor of a group going into the temple to get their endowments. Allegedly, one of the workers stopped the procession and said, “There are two people here engaged in adultery. Please leave now.” No one moved. The worker repeated what he said. Finally, when no one would leave, he made a THREAT and said “There are two people here engaged in adultery and if they do not leave now I will call out their names!”

Then, quietly, two of the members in the procession left.

Subject: Here’s a treasure from the polygamists.
Date: Aug 10 02:08
Author: Troy

The ancient Nephites used dinosaurs as beasts of burden. These animals were particularly useful in the extensive mining operations of BofM times.

I affectionately refer to this as the Flintstonian Theory.

Subject: Starting an Exmo Urban Legend?
Date: Aug 10 02:12
Author: LarryD

In Item 6. you say “Within a few days after he became a Master Mason, Joseph simply copied the same ceremony for the Mormon Church.” If you look in the records of the Grand Masonic Lodge based in Springfirld at the time, you will discover that Joseph is with a very small group of men who never had to memorize all the Masonic ritual from which the LDS Nauvoo Temple ceremony was populated with. Joseph Smith was made a Master Mason by declaration of the Grand Master of the Illinois Grand Lodge on one of the Master’s visit to the region. Joseph, according to Masonic history soon was selling memberships in the Nauvoo Lodge that met above his store and neither requered men be vouched for, but only that they could pay tyhe initiation fees and dues. He corrupted Masonry.

After Smith’s death all lodges in the Nauvoo area were disfranchised and 1500 masons belong to them were then no longer Masons. The author of the Nauvoo Ceremonies was more likely Brigham or other high ranking “saints” as they also included in the ceremony a promise to avenge the death of Joseph! This was not removed until years later.

The men who attacked the Liberty Jail were most likely a contingent of Masons, or had some Masons among them, for the last thing Joseph was recorded as doing was to give part of the Masonic cry of distress. He only would have done that if there was another Mason at hand who would normally be then obligated to come to his aid.

Subject: You Missed Missionaries not being allowed to cross open water.
Date: Aug 10 02:18
Author: LarryD

Ask around. I ran into this one overseas.
The Mishes said they were not allowed to cross Hong Kong Bay on a ferry. Another group of Mishes said something to the effect they could not take a boat out into the Missouri .
Others here have details.

Subject: This whole thread is hysterical—AND SO TRUEl!! n’t
Date: Aug 10 02:57
Author: makesmyheadspin
Mail Address:

Captain Entenille (great handle, BTW!) started a fun thread about urban legands in the Morg that got too big and is now closed. I want to “resurrect” that thread and add to it:

* Garmie stories

We’ve all heard stories about accidents where the victims weren’t hurt where the garments covered them. Well, my favorite had to do with miners who were trapped in a collapse and whose bodies where unscathed where the garments had covered them.

But the clincher...they all died anyway! D’OH!! But their thighs and torsos weren’t burned like their extremities were. Well, whooptie doo! What a blessed miracle!!

* WWII stories

At work, I heard several people talking about some Kamakaze pilot who was involved in the Pearl Harbor attack who kept trying to bomb the temple in Hawaii, but kept losing track of it and turning around and around trying to get a fix on it until he finally gave up.

Have any of you heard of Kamakaze pilots who live to brag about their antics?

* 9/11 stories

E-mails were flying around the globe claiming that an entire mission should have been in the WTC for a conference that fateful morning but that every single mishie and leader was unexpectedly delayed. Only problem, it was all 100% bogus. Whoever started the story couldn’t even get basic facts like the name of the mission right or the fact that mishies never rented space in the WTC for conferences.

I could go on, but I’m getting very sleepy. It’s probably Heavenly Father trying to get me to stop maligning His one and only true church. Or maybe it’s just that I’ve been up for almost 20 straight hours. :)

Please keep the fun stories coming!

Subject: How about the stupid stories about blessings right before going to the doctor
Date: Aug 11 00:30
Author: opinionated
Mail Address:

and—voila!—the operation works. Praise the lard and the penishood, but don’t give the doc any credit.

Subject: Why would they bomb a temple? They wanted to take our military out.
Date: Aug 11 01:00
Author: GrandpaJim

Targets were ships, airfields, and related military facilities. Anything else was just collateral damage. I’ve read that most of the civilian causualties at Pearl Harbor were from our own anti-aircraft fire.

The Mormons who keep this story going have an exaggerated idea of how important the temple is in the larger scheme of things. No Japanese pilot would have wasted a single bullet on it.

Subject: A few of my favorites
Date: Aug 11 14:04
Author: EnochIpsen

I love missionary folklore

The missionaries took their clothes to the laundry to have them cleaned. The owner thought the garments were funny so he hung them in the store window. The laundry burned to the ground.

To my knowledge this has happened in Mexico, Tahiti, Hawaii, various South American countries and in the Bible Belt.

...

How about the missionaries in England that were bicycling down a country road. They stopped and decided to to confer the priesthood on a fencepost.

In one version, lightning struck them both dead. Obviously, there were no witnesses to see what happened so the story had to be modified.

Soon, the one who conferred the priesthood was killed while the one assisting was merely wounded so he could tell the story later on.

...

How about the missionaries in the MTC (or LTM depending on when you heard it) who got talking about Satan. Satan possesses one of the missionaries and, depending on the story, the branch president, mission president or president of the LTM is called and hurries right on over to cast the demons out.

...

Then again, there is the story of the missionaries in California who went to the Super Bowl. The mission president happened to be watching the game and the camera panned in on the missionaries who were then sent home.

While I was a missionary in Hawaii, the story was related to me that it was missionaries from my mission and even under my mission president. Instead of seeing them on TV, though, other members saw them there and reported to the president. He and the APs went to their apartment, packed their bags and met them at the airport with their tickets home.

...

Don’t forget about the small town in Central America that had one set of elders and one set of sisters. They got married and traded companions for their living arrangements. This went on for months before they were caught and excommunicated.

Enoch

Subject: The most annoying mo urban legend
Date: Aug 11 19:23
Author: James
Mail Address:

I’ve probably heard this stupid story at a dozen sacrament meetings. I’m sure everyone here knows it. “Free the birdies!”

Some 3 year old kid gets crushed under a garage door opener, the paramedics are called and revivce the kid. After the stay in the hospital the kid(who somehow manages to speak impeccable english for a 3 year old) tells his parents about being in a place where there were “birdies locked in cages” and how people were doing work to “free the birdies”. This was supposed to represent the temple and the birdies were the spirits waiting to have temple work done for them. Thats the gist of it. I think I purposely pushed most of this dumb story out of my mind so I’m a little sketchy on some parts. But I’m sure everyone here has heard it.

James

Subject: Guatemala in the version I heard
Date: Aug 11 20:05
Author: A_Grant
Mail Address:

Happened in an all Catholic village in Guatemala.
Difference is the Missionary cursed the Laundry in the name of G0d and pronounced it would suffer the punishment of God ans it burned down.

Subject: Hawaii Temple and Kamikaze Pilots
Date: Aug 12 00:03
Author: Marisa
Mail Address:

When I attended BYU-Hawaii many years ago, I had a religion professor who was rather liberal. He talked about the FPR of Kamikaze pilot(s) trying to bomb the temple. He said that much time had been invested by the Church in trying to track down the mystery pilots(s). They always managed to get one person away from the pilot, but never actually contacted the man. They finally concluded, in the words of my prof., that “It was a story that should have been true, but wasn’t.”

Subject: What about the priest who joined the church
Date: Aug 12 09:58
Author: nomomatt
Mail Address:

and was being tracked down by Vatican hired assasins? That one supposedly involved Brewerton, a Seventy. He publicly disavowed it. The same “letter” outlining this guy’s escape from the Vatican’s killers also said that if a cathedral had a red cross painted inside on the walls, the bishop there was authorized to order murders. All the dips**t missionaries in Argentina would look all around any Catholic church they saw for the red cross!!

Another dumb one that had to do with missonaries—in Argentina again—going to a lady’s home where she served them mate cocido-a kind of herbal tea. They finish their tea, and agree to return the next day. When they come back, she is astonished to see them. When they ask why she was so surprised, she instantly confesses to having put enough poison in their mate to have killed a horse.

And finally, missionaries in my mission Buenos Aires North, said that we would know when the second coming was inminent because missionaries would be allowed to carry handguns. Leaving aside the Freudian implications, this one came from an elder whose uncle was a GA. Guess it must be true then.

The old hitchhiker that a member of the church picks up who warns the member that they should have food storage/go to the temple/do their hometeaching/any other TBM activity. Shortly after that the hitchiker disappears from the front seat of the member’s car.

The macho legends like armed angels patrolling the perimeter of the MTC or giant Nephite warriors guarding the Mexico City temple from an armed mob.

That’s enough for now, makes my head hurt remembering all this crap.

Subject: Japan Didn’t Use Kamikaze Pilots at Pearl Harbor!
Date: Aug 13 01:38
Author: SL Cabbie
Mail Address:

They were conceived of later in the war, as a desperation tactic. And the targets hit in Pearl Harbor were military targets.

Hope everyone read my post a few months ago about the elder waterskiing in his garmies because lightening struck a little close to the group of teenagers he was chaperoning. I still have a hunch that one’s true.

Subject: Terrific! Every single one of those was told in my mission as well
Date: Aug 12 09:33
Author: kilgore

and all supposedly happened in various missions in the country. So you can add Italy to the list of places where all of those stories supposedly happened. Thanks for reminding me! :)

In my mission, the elders “brushed their feet” at the wicked laundry which, leading to its destruction, and I never heard the variation of the fencepost where both got killed (I guess it had already evolved by then).

Subject: Ecco! Io ho fatto la missione nella bella Italia!
Date: Aug 13 00:25
Author: Shiz

I did my time in 1983-1984 - Rome

You?

(I think I too have heard all these same FPR - with a touch of oregano and garlic!)

Subject: Re: Ecco! Io ho fatto la missione nella bella Italia!
Date: Aug 13 23:02
Author: kilgore

‘87-’89 Milano

Subject: Another legend from England...
Date: Aug 13 03:26
Author: Ramses
Mail Address:

where a missionary couple was so despaired in baptizing someone that they baptized a dog and weere subsequently killed.

Subject: The Super Bowl/Missionary Story
Date: Aug 12 00:21
Author: Marisa
Mail Address:

This one has been around in various incarnations for eons.
The version I heard, in the late 70’s, was about missionaries from Italy who snuck away to attend the 76 Olympics in Innsbruck, Austria. They were conveniently positioned right by the end of the ski run when Franz Klammer crossed the finish line to win the gold. They were supposedly in a picture on the cover of Sports Illustrated.
Their mission president saw the magazine, and they were tossed.
The person who told me said they were in his mission a year before he arrived.
I was so gullible that I believed it.

Subject: Re: Two missionaries get caught...
Date: Aug 12 10:10
Author: SD
Mail Address:

sitting on a buddha in Thailand to have their pictures taken. The Thai police arrest them and they spend six months in a Thai jail. No urban legend here. It really happened. I knew one of the guys and he’s the first to admit it was dumb shit, disrespectful thing to do.

Subject: I didn’t know they went to jail
Date: Aug 12 21:22
Author: EnochIpsen

but that one I do remember from the newspapers in here Salt Lake City. If I’m correct, it happened sometime after October, 1995.

Enoch

Subject: Wrong: I remember having seen the pic in a German news mag in the late 1970’s nt
Date: Aug 13 03:23
Author: Ramses
Mail Address:

Subject: Actor Dean Jagger (Brigham Young in the movie)......
Date: Aug 13 00:45
Author: Captain Entenille
Mail Address:

was so smitten with Mormonism, after making the movie he converted and went on a mission.

The cigar smoking Jagger spoofed this of course, but in spite of his denials, the rumor still circulates among the old timers, 60 years after the movie was made.

Subject: Jacqueline Bisset
Date: Aug 13 00:56
Author: Tyler

I had heard that the ultra sexy Jaqueline Bisset was taking the missionary discussions and was very near the blessed baptism.

The whole thing was called off when she had the torrid love scene with Rob Lowe in the early 80’s movie, “Class”. It was mentioned that she would be one who would wail and gnash her teeth during the second coming as she accepted then rejected the gospel

I felt so bad for her sinning soul!! LOL

Tyler

Subject: notice the common thread in all of them.....
Date: Aug 13 03:04
Author: sparkle
Mail Address:

almost all of these stories have the same theme of making a little human error and being “cursed” for it, usually at the hands of a glorious/righteous mormon. disgusting brain-washing propaganda bs!!!!!!!

Also they follow the elitist theme in mormonism.

Subject: The three Nephites
Date: Aug 13 09:59
Author: ExMoron
Mail Address:

(Larry, Moe, and Curly) saved many a lone farmer/rancher after some terrible accident, then disappeared. Ain’t it grand?

How about the night driver on some deserted, country road, that has Satan try to wrest the steering wheel out of his/her hands. Only the power of prayer/the priesthood saved them!! Really!!!

Subject: I don’t know about anyone else...
Date: Aug 13 10:15
Author: AprilZ76
Mail Address:

but I always heard about how Satan would try to “grab hold” of young men right before their missions. I even heard stories about young men being woke up with “someone’s” hands around their throats choking them so they couldn’t go carry out their sacred work on their mission. And what’s the deal with missionaries not being able to swim? I live in FL and I always felt sorry for the mishes down here that could go the the beach or the pool parties but weren’t allowed to swim. Is there a clear reason for that?

Subject: Mission Swimming and Toga Parties
Date: Aug 13 11:37
Author: Shiz
Mail Address:

Same in my mission (Italy) I missed all those great beaches, but a companion of mine did get a picture of him with four beautiful topless gals on the beach!

Anyways, about swimming: the real scoop is to minimize accidents and liabilities. Sorta scare them straight! Too many drown while swimming and I would gather that high energy 19 and 20 year old males are often, shall we say, reckless!

Subject: Mission Swimming and Toga Parties
Date: Aug 13 11:37
Author: Shiz
Mail Address:

Same in my mission (Italy) I missed all those great beaches, but a companion of mine did get a picture of him with four beautiful topless gals on the beach!

(source: exmormon.org)

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