Bishop's Barroom Musings Brew up Controversy

The Republic (Clumbus, OH) ^ | 2/22/12 | Terry Mattingly

[marshmallow]

"Atheocracy" is not the kind of word that gets tossed around in bars.

Nevertheless, Bishop James Conley recently defined that term and defended its use while speaking in a pub in the heart of Denver's trendy Capitol Hill neighborhood. The goal, as always, was to use this "Theology on Tap" forum for an informal, frank encounter with young Catholics and others who might be curious.

"America today is becoming what I would call an atheocracy -- a society that is actively hostile to religious faith and religious believers. And I might add, the faith that our society is most hostile toward is Christianity in general, and Catholicism in particular," said Conley, who is serving as apostolic administrator of the Archdiocese of Denver until Pope Benedict XVI names a new archbishop.

"I think we all recognize that there is a new mentality in America, one that has grave risks for all believers -- and puts in jeopardy all faith-based movements for social change and renewal. An atheocracy is a dangerous place -- morally and spiritually. ... We risk becoming a nation without a soul, a people with no common purpose apart from material pursuits."

What happened next was as ironic as public discourse gets there days.

Although Conley was speaking in an isolated part of Stoney's Bar and Grill, some patrons in the establishment began making snide remarks.

Eventually, one man aimed obscene remarks at the bishop.

On top of that, the management said some workers complained about serving the bishop and the crowd that came out to hear him on a cold weeknight. It seemed that allowing a bishop to talk theology while sharing a few beers with his flock was too controversial for some customers and bar staffers.

[iowamark]

the management said some workers complained about serving the bishop and the crowd that came out to hear him on a cold weeknight. It seemed that allowing a bishop to talk theology while sharing a few beers with his flock was too controversial for some customers and bar staffers.

Sounds like they need to find a new bar.

[campaignPete R-CT]

eggselent.

[iowamark]

It sounds like they are finding a new venue. Note that Bishop Conley’s talk drew “hundreds of young adults.”

http://www.catholicnewsagency.com/news/denver-theology-on-tap-inspires-controversy-venue-change/
“”Denver Theology on Tap inspires controversy, venue change”

Denver, Colo., Feb 15, 2012 - The Archdiocese of Denver’s Theology on Tap program was compelled to seek a new venue after a lecture on religious liberty by Auxiliary Bishop James D. Conley reportedly caused controversy among some patrons and staff.

“This was a misunderstanding and we hope to be able to work with the group again in the future,” Stoney’s Bar and Grill owner Stoney Jesseph told CNA on Feb. 10.

On Jan. 26 Bishop Conley spoke to hundreds of young adults at the bar, which is less than five blocks from Denver’s Cathedral of the Immaculate Conception. His topic was “Atheocracy and the Battle for Religious Liberty in America.”

Shortly after the talk, however, organizers were told to find a different location for the program because of its “controversial” content and the fact that that some of the bar staff said they would refuse to work the event again.

“It’s ironic that the talk itself pertains so well to what happened,” said Chris Stefanick, director of the archdiocese’s office for youth, young adults and campus ministry who helps run the event.

Stefanick said he was surprised to hear Jesseph’s desire to work with Theology on Tap in the future given that the archdiocese was told by the restaurant that the gathering was “too controversial.”

“Those were the words they used,” he said.

But he suggested that Jesseph’s business partners may have had a role in the decision. “I don’t think it was all on Stoney’s shoulders. Frankly, if it was just up to Stoney, this never would have happened.”

However, for “whatever reason,” he added, “I think the establishment has made it clear that they’d rather not have a public, Catholic event there.”

Theology on Tap is an ongoing outreach program of the archdiocese. It meets in a bar, Stefanick explained, because it intends to provide “a non-threatening place to gather with friends” for Catholics to “draw people into the faith.”

“It’s also a great social connecting point for people to realize they’re not alone.”

The January event was in a section of the bar where other patrons wouldn’t be able to hear what the bishop was saying, added Stefanick, who thought it was only the appearance of a man in a Roman collar that provoked a reaction.

One bar patron, who Stefanick believes was not in a position to hear the talk, shouted obscenities at the bishop.

“The people at the talk couldn’t hear, because the way the amplifiers were set, but the bishop heard him and I heard him.”

Stefanick clarified that he thinks Stoney’s Bar and Grill has a right to refuse to host anyone they want.

“But they should expect those who are refused to react accordingly, and they shouldn’t be surprised at the angry e-mails and the Catholic groups who no longer want to go there.”

Jeanette DeMelo, the Archdiocese of Denver’s communications director, echoed Stefanick’s comments.

“A local bar is discriminating against our group and the content of our talks. For this bar, it’s a business decision and it’s acceptable for them to make that decision,” she told CNA Feb. 13.

“The bar has a right to be what it is, a sports bar with a noncontroversial atmosphere, which allows anyone and everyone to feel at home – except Catholics in collars.”

She lamented what she called a “double standard” in public opinion. The business decisions of secular businesses like Stoney’s Bar and Grill are seen as acceptable, while the Catholic Church is not allowed similar self-determination like refusing federal mandates for insurance coverage of contraception and sterilization.

“Catholics must make our stand – with charity but with great clarity. We can’t allow ourselves to be pushed out of the public square,” DeMelo said.

Stefanick added in his comments to CNA that the event draws a crowd. “There were about 300 people there on a night that otherwise would be kind of dead,” he said.

Theology on Tap’s next meeting will take place Feb. 15 at 7 p.m. at Katie Mullen’s Irish Restaurant and Pub on Denver’s 16th Street Mall. Theology professor Tim Gray will speak on the topic “Religionless Christianity,” in response to a popular YouTube video which professes love for Jesus but hate for religion.””

[A.A. Cunningham]

They did.

Theology on Tap leaves Stoney’s Bar and Grill; announces new location at Katie Mullen's

Theology on Tap leaves Stoney’s Bar and Grill; announces new location at Katie Mullen's
By Nissa LaPoint

Organizers of a well-attended young adult Catholic group were forced to quickly find a new location after a Denver bar owner announced last week it would no longer host its “controversial” monthly events.

Denver’s Stoney’s Bar and Grill, above, hosted just one Theology on Tap lecture before asking organizers of the event to find a new location. Katie Mullen's Irish Pub and Restaurant, 1550 Court Place in Denver, is the new venue and will host the next event on Wed., Feb. 15 beginning at 7 p.m.

In an initial email to one organizer, Stoney Jesseph, co-owner of Stoney’s Bar and Grill in Denver, said that he and his business partners decided not to host another Theology on Tap gathering after the first event Jan. 18 at the bar caused “a ton of controversy” and that some of his staff refused to work future events.

“They have every right not to have us there,” said Chris Stefanick, director of the Youth, Young Adult and Campus Ministry Office, who organizes the events. “But we have the right to make this known.”

Theology on Tap, a gathering of adults ages 18 to 35 that invites guest speakers to discuss topics on the faith, found a new home for its events just two days after Jesseph’s email at Katie Mullen’s, an Irish restaurant and bar, in Denver. The next scheduled event will be held 7 p.m. tonight at Katie Mullen’s.

Some Catholics in the group reacted to Jesseph’s decision calling it “discrimination” and another example of marginalization “by anti-Catholic bigotry.”

Jesseph told the Register Feb. 11 that the whole situation was a misunderstanding.

“I had written an email and literally the words got twisted and someone got upset,” Jesseph said. “It was a poor choice of words on my part. I can understand (why people thought it was discrimination) just by reading the email myself.”

In subsequent emails to other organizers, Jesseph said his staff felt they were “being forced into hearing about religion” and that his partners felt “the message did not belong in a bar (and) restaurant and were afraid of upsetting regular customers.”

Jesseph commented that he valued the business from Theology on Tap, which draws between 100 to 300 young adults every month.

Although he knew some people were uncomfortable at the last event and had heard reports of some hecklers in the crowd during apostolic administrator Bishop James Conley’s talk about the battle for religious liberty, Jesseph thought it went well, he said.

“I want to clear our name,” Jesseph told the Register, adding that his establishment has hosted events for other religious groups and political parties. “We hope to be able to partner up with them again.”

One of the group’s organizers, Kenn Cramer, said he doesn’t fault Jesseph and his partners’ original decision to cancel events.

“I understand that if you don’t want politically charged or religious things happening in your business because of this very thing. Jesus makes people angry. Jesus is controversial,” Cramer said. “I don’t think it’s (Jesseph) trying to marginalize Catholics or things of that nature. He’s just trying to be a responsible business owner.”

Other Catholic young adults said they’ve frequented Stoney’s and are appalled at the situation.

“We aren’t victims, but we certainly have a right to make our disappointment known,” said Jeanette DeMelo, spokeswoman for the Denver Archdiocese.

For seven years Theology on Tap was held at Braun’s Bar and Grill in Denver next to the Pepsi Center until it moved to a new location on Blake Street. Braun’s later closed in January.

Theology on Tap’s next event at Katie Mullen’s is hoped to be the start of a long-term relationship, said Caroline Collins, who handles its public relations.

“This is something different for us and we’re looking forward to it,” Collins said.

Katie Mullen’s has been open for three years and has space for up to 566 patrons, she said. It advertizes in Holy Ghost Parish’s bulletin and holds an annual Christmas party for the parish priests, she added.

“I think this is a good fit for both parties,” Collins said.

[ansel12]

Christianity in general, and Catholicism in particular

Way, way, wrong, Evangelical Protestantism is by far the most reviled, and hated, and held in universal contempt by the left and especially by media.

The Catholic denomination is very often attacked and mocked, but it is also given the respectable role of being a fellow institution and respected opponent at it's worst, and it's representatives are required on all Sunday news shows and religious discussions.

TV and Movies very, very often portray it positively, in fact it is the default church of almost all heroes, Detectives, close, charming families, monster killers in horror films, of honorable peasants, and working people, with Christian and Catholic imagery and ceremonies used respectfully and very often

Evangelical Christians are treated as weird, Southern, backwards, ignorant, even inbred and psychotic, as not even really Christian, when they are portrayed at all. When a bible or bible quotes show up among Evangelical/fundamentalist type Protestants, we all know that the crazy is coming.

[mosesdapoet]

This place sounds like they don’t serve kat liquors. Wonder if the Good Lord is running a “tab” on the place, and when HE will collect. To many fundamentalist Christian sects consuming alcohol is (oncluding moslems) strictly taboo.

Actually this sounds like a setup. Management should keep their patrons in line apparantly they don’t. A good place to stay out of. As far as this bishops reach out idea goes, I think it’s a dumb idea.

[Unknowing]

‘Jesseph said his staff felt they were “being forced into hearing about religion” and that his partners felt “the message did not belong in a bar (and) restaurant and were afraid of upsetting regular customers.” ‘

Maybe they should go next door to “Sutra,” or up Lincoln Avenue to “The Church” or the “Funky Buddha?” How about “The Cheeky Monk” 4 blocks away up Colfax? Mocking religion is a professional sport in Denver, but here we see outright hatred.

[Unknowing]

‘Jesseph said his staff felt they were “being forced into hearing about religion” and that his partners felt “the message did not belong in a bar (and) restaurant and were afraid of upsetting regular customers.” ‘

Maybe they should go next door to “Sutra,” or up Lincoln Avenue to “The Church” or the “Funky Buddha?” How about “The Cheeky Monk” 4 blocks away up Colfax? Mocking religion is a professional sport in Denver, but here we see outright hatred.

[Shark24]

Understand the truth in your reply but please let us not be the Catholic and Evangelical Protestant walking up to the guillotine together for a common cause yet discussing our differences. BTW, great FR homepage.

[redgolum]

From experience, talking theology around the usual bar crowd can have interesting results. Granted, it is a grand Lutheran tradition, but we were asked to leave quite a few bars.

We also ended up having a Bible study at a few. The good bishop needs to find a different bar. Though it he runs into enough Lutherans, there won’t be enough beer.

[A.A. Cunningham]

Way, way, wrong, Evangelical Protestantism is by far the most reviled, and hated, and held in universal contempt by the left and especially by media.

Yeah right. That's why there are so many Catholic Soetoro/left appointees to the USCIRF.

[marron]

"Theology on Tap"

This is a great idea.

[A.A. Cunningham]

As far as this bishops reach out idea goes, I think it’s a dumb idea.

Then don't go. Theology on Tap was started in 1981 in Chicago and if it was "a dumb idea" it would have withered on the vine long ago. In fact it's been such "a dumb idea" that it's spread to 180 dioceses, six countries and a number of protestant denominations.

[ansel12]

Yep, no religious person is more hated by the left than an Evangelical Christian, even in a political sense, Southern Baptists are our second largest church, yet they don’t exist to the media, or in movies, except as representing the primitive, the backwards, I can’t imagine the troubled movie hero being a Southern Baptist, he will always be a Catholic.

Even Christian terrorists are Evangelicals in the movies and on TV.

The Catholic denomination is very often attacked and mocked, but it is also given the respectable role of being a fellow institution and respected opponent at it’s worst, and it’s representatives are required on all Sunday news shows and religious discussions.

TV and Movies very, very often portray it positively, in fact it is the default church of almost all heroes, Detectives, close, charming families, monster killers in horror films, of honorable peasants, and working people, with Christian and Catholic imagery and ceremonies used respectfully and very often

Evangelical Christians are treated as weird, Southern, backwards, ignorant, even inbred and psychotic, as not even really Christian, when they are portrayed at all. When a bible or bible quotes show up among Evangelical/fundamentalist type Protestants, we all know that the crazy is coming.

[ansel12]

The obvious truth has to at least be mentioned by Christians.

[mosesdapoet]

Then don’t go. Theology on Tap was started in 1981 in Chicago and if it was “a dumb idea” it would have withered on the vine long ago.

1981 B ernadine was Cardinal who closed down operating Catholic schools and parrish churches because he bought into the Demo-Com approach...What you learn about Catholicism and the mass at any of these tap sessions you can put that dose of hallelujah served in ademi-tasse spoons

[vladimir998]

You wrote:

“Way, way, wrong, Evangelical Protestantism is by far the most reviled, and hated, and held in universal contempt by the left and especially by media.”

No, not really.

[ansel12]

Yes really.

See post 15.

[vladimir998]

You post is meaningless because you apparently fail to grasp the obvious.

Evangelicals annoy and yes, even frighten, liberals. But the Catholic Church truly terrifies liberals.

Liberals are pro-birth control. So are evangelicals by-and-large.

Liberals are “pro-choice”. So are many evangelicals - even the so-called pro-life ones. Jerry Falwell and others, for instance, were hunky-dory about abortion in cases of rape and incest.

Often the difference between evangelicalism and liberalism is by degrees since both are products of liberalism to begin with. The difference between Catholicism and liberalism is the difference between night and day.