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Posted on 02/20/2012 3:19:02 PM PST by WKB
NASHVILLE, Tenn. (AP) — The nation's largest protestant denomination will definitely remain "Baptist," but leaders are thinking about whether it will be "Southern" for much longer.
(Excerpt) Read more at home.myhughesnet.com ...
Gramps was uninformed. There might be some small Baptist group that does foot-washing, but that’s more in line with Pentecostals. Definitely not SBC or any mainstream Baptist group.
As far as over-zealous... My ex-husband was Lutheran, and when we attended his church I was tempted to hold a mirror to the mouths of the congregation just to see if they were breathing. I mean... why bother going?
I certainly don’t believe baptizing infants is a sin. I’m Presbyterian(PCA, conservative Bible believing variety, definitely not PCUSA). It was just my tongue-in-cheek way of describing the beliefs of liberal, pro-abortion Baptists(probably better called BINOs a/k/a Baptists In Name Only).
I’m sure Hollywood, fame and the money that came with it along with the leftism of the current legal profession itself has caused the person you’re talking about to reject the belief in the inerrancy of the Bible and replace it with belief in the “inerrancy” of the Democratic party political platform(again, being tongue-in-cheek).
Sounds like a reasonable assessment to me.
Oh? Do you have any sound theolgical arguments?
What denominations would be 'Christian', in your opinion?
Saying things just to see if they stick?
Southern Baptists neither footwash, nor speak in tongues, as a church. I have known some individuals do the later privately, but never have I known a ‘footwasher’
There are some liberals in the Sotuhern Baptists but they are fewer and fewer in number. If I remember correctly Southern Baptists Were a bit more liberal in the 1920s than today but it is getting more conservative each year.
The liberals made a run at our seminaries in the 1980s and early nineties and they were cleaned out in the mid 1990s by a couple of SBC presidents, but there are still some left.
That statement is pretty much what one would expect from a hyper-Calvinist.
The process that they are using to bring it to the delegates of the Southern Baptist Convention convention (for lack of a better phrase) is quite normal.
The Southern Baptist Convention is managed from the church up, not from the top down. I doubt that this proposal will go anywhere as the value of the brand Southern Baptist Convention is extremely high with world wide recognition. Various expectations are set with the brand such as help during disasters, large amounts of missionary activity and Biblical teaching. It’s not going to go anywhere.
“The Southern Baptist Convention is not Christian.”
You funny, meester....
His congregation was full of Calvinists. As Al Mohler has pointed out, the rise of Calvinism was the logical outcome of the battle Adrian Rogers (and others) waged for the Bible.
When I was challenged with the Doctrines of Grace by a friend I resisted. I was around thirty-five at the time and firmly believed what I had been taught by my parents, my pastor and my bible professors at Union. I engaged the debate purely as a thought exercise. But as I argued and debated my friend, I began to have doubts and decided I needed to study the matter in a serious way for myself. I had no intention of becoming a Calvinist. What I was really doing was studying so I could win the argument. I understood the profound implications of Calvinism so I was very reluctant. But I knew that the Apostle Paul said we all see through a glass darkly. I knew I could be wrong, so my continual prayer was for God to show me the truth from His Word. I decided that I would stand on the Scriptures, regardless.
Many of my fellow Bellevue deacons, choir members, and Sunday School teachers were Calvinists, too. There were even some on staff. Once I was convinced of the Doctrines of Grace I and admitted it to a friend, I was shocked to discover how many were sitting in the Bellevue pews with me. Everywhere I went I met another Calvinist. I had no idea Calvinists were teaching across the street at Mid-America.
Interestly enough, a few months before he died, Adrian Rogers told a friend of mine he was a four and a half point Calvinist. Though I didn’t hear the conversation, I am sure he struggled with the idea of particular redemption (limited atonement). (W.A. Criswell was also a four-pointer, as was J. Vernon McGee I believe). If you go back and listen to his preaching, Dr. Rogers clearly preached election, but he did not talk about it in quite the same way as most Calvinist pastors do. When I was initially studying the Doctrines of Grace I realized I already believed much of it based on what I had been taught by Adrian Rogers.
Many do not know that the founders of the Southern Baptist Convention were Calvinists. I did know it because I had taken Baptist history in college. There was a drift that coincided with the rise of dispensationalism and other factors.
When I first told my parents I was a Calvinist they were upset. My father had been a deacon for more than forty years and both of my grandfathers were as well. My great-grandfather was a Baptist pastor. It took years of working on them, but thanks to God’s grace, today both of my elderly parents are Calvinists, too.
“Many do not know that the founders of the Southern Baptist Convention were Calvinists. I did know it because I had taken Baptist history in college.”
Indeed. The 1689 London Confession of Baptist Faith is almost word for word the same as the Presbyterian Westminster Confession of Faith(1643-1646) with the exceptions of views on Baptism, the sacraments and church government.
A couple more things I forgot to say, one of the causes of the rise of Calvinism in the SBC was the installment of a Calvinist, Al Mohler, at the helm of Southern Baptist Seminary in Louisville. That happened because of the Conservative resurgence lead in part by Adrian Rogers. It’s my understanding that Dr. Mohler would not have been chosen if not for Adrian Rogers direct involvment. Today Southern has many Calvinists teaching and they turn out scores of Calvinists each year.
But Southern isn’t the only seminary turning out Calvinists. Two of the strongest Calvinist preachers in the entire SBC graduated from Mid-America Seminary—Jeff Noblit and Roy Hargrave. God used men like Adrian Rogers and Gray Allison to raise up a new generation of Baptists who hold to the historic baptist theology of men like John Bunyan, John Gill, William Carey (considered the “Founder of Modern Missions”), Charles Spurgeon (the “Prince of Preachers”) and the founders of the Southern Baptist Convention.
The week Adrian Rogers died, WCRV interviewed John MacArthur, a Calvinist, and his tribute to Adrian Rogers was quite moving.
I know a local Presbyterian pastor who was a friend of Adrian Rogers. He still speaks lovingly and often of Adrian Rogers. I once met Dr. D. James Kennedy, a staunch Presbyterian Calvinist to be sure. He got excited when he learned Adrian Rogers was my pastor and he raved about his love for him.
My point is that Dr. Rogers was not the enemy of Calvinism that some seem to believe. I am not the only Calvinist who loved Adrian Rogers.
The sermon linked below from 2002 was the one that finally broke through my father’s old Baptist heart on the matter of Calvinism.
Election - Pure and Simple (Jeff Noblit from Muscle Shoals)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qx4BBgqokeI
Here is another interesting tid bit: I came across a book which contained memoirs and diary entries of a man who was very influential in a rural parish in So. Louisiana. These writing were from around 1870. Apparently, he at some point came under the teachings and influence of Alexander Campbell(Cambellite Church of Christ) whom he mentioned by name. It caused him to repudiate his Baptist associations and upbringing. He rejected the Baptist view of election which he spoke of as monolithic view of the Baptists of that day. Unfortunately, he fell sink line and hook for the Pelagian redux and spent a lot of time discussing mans free agency and self determination.
That is indeed interesting. I’m under the impression that in those years many were swayed by the Cambellites because of eschatology, though I don’t know enough about that movement to be confident that’s correct.
I do know that my own 19th century Southern Baptist ancestors were Calvinists.
The SBC exists for one thing-money.
There is nothing Christian about it.
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