Posted on 01/28/2012 9:20:46 AM PST by pinochet
Almost all Christian denominations can be traced to 3 main traditions - the Catholic, the Protestant, and the Eastern Orthodox traditions. All three traditions are based on the Bible. Mormonism is a religion that has a heritage that is very different from traditional Christianity, and is based on the Book of Mormon.
The theological differences that separate a Baptist from a Catholic, are not the same as those which separate a Baptist from a Mormon, or a Catholic from a Mormon. In a dispute between a Baptist and a Catholic, they will argue over whether Church tradition prevails over scripture on some issues, and on whether salvation is by faith alone, or a combination of faith and works. The main argument will focus on how they interpret the Bibilical verse, James 2:17, which notes "Faith without works is dead".
But Mormonism doctrines involve stuff that is completely incomprehensible to Christians. It is not just the fact that Mormon Prophet Joseph Smith was a polygamist, like the Muslim Prophet Muhammad. I will grant you that Joseph Smith was not as violent as Muhammad. But Mormons have this crazy doctrine that Jesus visited America, and that some Native Americans are the lost tribes of Israel.
They also have secret ceremonies in Mormon temples, in which they perform wierd rituals and ceremonies, such as one creepy ritual called "naked touching". Non-mormons are never allowed to attend those secret Mormon ceremonies, and only a minority of Mormons - those in good standing with the church, are allowed to witness the strange ceremonies. One is also required to wear special undergarments as part of the faith. Here is a description on "naked touching" by ex-Mormons: http://www.exmormon.org/mormon/mormon366.htm
Many of us have met individual Mormons, and admired them and their families. They are a model religious minority like Hindus from India. Hindu immigrants in America are hard working, law-abiding, and their children do well in school. But we cannot get over the fact that Hinduism is a really strange religion with multiple gods and goddesses, and strange cultural practises such as viewing cows as holy animals. Some Hindu gods like Shiva, Hanuman, Ganesha, and Kali, are really weird creatures. I have always viewed Mormons as a nice pro-family people, but with a religion as strange as Hinduism.
Hiccup!
Is more Mormon bashing really necessary? Seriously?
Mormonism/LDS in its various guises is a seriously revised version of Christianity. They claim that it is the “restored gospel”. Their doctrine is at serious variance with historical Christianity in multiple significant areas. They believe that the historical churches left the true path a God sent messengers to correct things. At a macro level, their approach is quite defensible theologically. It would make things simpler for some if they declared themselves a separate religion, but their claim of Christianity is not without some basis, though it is clearly not historical Christianity.
As for it being strange, talk to some serious Mormons who were raised in their faith. They kind of get how the Roman Catholic church operates, but Protestants are beyond comprehension. It just depends on what you were brought up with. When it comes to weird, LDS followers are not all that different than historical Christianity when compared to some of the other religions out there.
LDS is no less respectable to me that other religions including historical Christianity. I respect (within some limits) the rights of others to believe and worship as they please. The practical values of the LDS community are OK by me, even if I don’t agree with them theologically. While I am a fundamentalist Christian, my political support and vote does not hinge on someone’s religion, but their policies and behavior.
When discussing ‘naked touching’ keep in mind that the Puritans practiced ‘bundling’ wherein an unmarried young man and woman would be put in bed together, naked, with a sheet between them, and encouraged to rub against each other, while family and friends looked on.
It was considered a courting ritual.
by contrast, playing cards was strictly forbidden.
The past is a different country.
Sounds a bit like Amway.
On the comparison between Mormonism and Hinduism, I have fewer problems understanding how people can believe in the latter as opposed to the former. Hinduism is a very ancient religion, probably the oldest surviving faith on Earth, its adherents are born into it, and those followers can at least point to several thousand years of tradition to support why they believe. According to a Hindu friend of mine they do actually believe in a single supreme God of which the others are sub-manifestations. While I am not a Hindu myself I have never felt any discomfort in discussing my faith with Hindu friends and acquaintances. Try discussing traditional Christian beliefs in detail with a Mormon, or even risk your throat doing so with Muslim, sometime.
Speaking of which, there are many parallels between the founding history of Mormonism and Islam. A latter day (post-resurrection) prophet is exposed to Christianity and decides that it is a misinterpretation of the "truth". He then (through supposed ecstatic revelation) receives a new revealed word which, to any objective reader, is a mass of contradiction and embarrassingly ignorant made up history. Nonetheless, both prophets attract devoted followers who are willing to kill and die for their new faith. Both condone and practice polygamy and what we would today classify as pedophilia, the treatment of some races of man as sub-human, and require complete submission of the individual to the prophet and his "church".
There was a time when there was much less controversy surrounding Mormonism on FR. Mormons as a whole (Harry Reid notwithstanding) are a conservative, patriotic people.
What changed all that, what created the divisiveness and the acrimony, spun off of the 2008 Presidential primary. Mitt Romney made a determined effort to dispel the notion that Mormonism isn’t Christian to aid his own electability, despite over a century of even Mormon founders stating that it isn’t. Partisans began to make the claim on FR, on the Religion Forum.
Then the refutations began, led primarily by former Mormons. There have been all manner of wild back-and-forths, the most memorable of which have come from Mormons themselves. I forget the name of the one particularly paranoid gentleman, but he’s still attacking FR and coming on as a retread from time to time, Greg something I believe. He takes the cake for sure.
Be ashamed all you want, but that’s the sound of free speech and freedom of religion. Does it “look bad” to people who really have no idea what’s going on? Probably. Stifling it leads to all manner of other things that don’t just merely look bad, though.
The basis for the BoM comes from Freemasonry writings since Mr. Smith was a Freemason. Smith took what he wanted from them and twisted it for his own nefarious purposes. The Freemasons writings come from the Kabbalistic writings of the rabbis that they took and ran with and twisted it for their own purposes, also. The BoM is just a distortion of a distortion.
I think they did a lot of that bundling in Intercourse, Pennsylvania!
Actually Joseph Smith wrote the BoM years before he learned anything about Freemasonry. The Temple rites, however, were heavily dependent on Freemason rituals.
If Moses could do it, if Paul could do it, then why not Joseph Smith Jr?
Who decided what was scripture? Why would G-d communicate to us based on a system of “jam yesterday, and jam tomorrow, but never jam today”?
If the Genesis story of “Noah and the flood” could be adapted from the epic of Gilgamesh, why could not Joseph Smith Jr. adapt his story of Laban from “A View of the Hebrews” by Ethan Smith?
We could probably assess the real threat from Mormans to America better if someone would supply this data for consideration:
1. Morman divorce rate
2. Percentage of Morman children born out of wedlock
3. Percentage of Morman families on welfare, and/or food stamps.
4. Drop-rate rate for Morman school children
5. Crime rate for Mormans
6. Morman percentage of prison population
7. Morman gang activity
It seems those, and a few I’ve probably forgotten, are the things that threaten our society more than theology.
If you take the time to open- mindedly study the catholic church teachings and history you may come to the conclusion, as have I
, that all the truths are found there.and Anyone outside the church
Has a(what I consider) gargoyl mindset. Read GK Chesterton or the book by Israel Zolli’Why I Became a Catholic’. God be With you in your search
It's sad, and hits close to home for me too. I had a Thai girlfriend once here in the states (I also lived in Thailand for many years) whose family was politically very right leaning in almost every way, yet supported Democrats because they always claimed conservatives didn't like Buddhists. To me it seemed irrational, but that is what they felt. Another family I am very close to is Palestinian Christian, and they do the exact same thing. Again, conservative in almost every way yet vote Democrat because they feel Republicans just don't really like them.
In the last election 63% of Asian voters cast a ballot for Obama. This is the same voting block that went 55% for Bush in 1992. There are just not enough white people moving to the GOP fast enough for us to keep losing these minority voting blocks by ever increasing margins. Do people just not get it?
Yes, I know the MSM/media meme that conservatives are intolerant is largely BS, but do have to wonder when I read posts like this if some people are literally TRYING to alienate anyone not white and Christian (Catholic or Protestant)? I wonder if people realize this nation is demographically changing to such an extent that it will simply not be possible to win national elections (and even states we still carry) in a few years is folks persist in making Buddhists, etc, feel like they aren't welcome in the party (and as office holders).
Voting is about electing politicians, not clergy. There is so much wrong with Romney, namely that he is not a conservative, that there is simply no reason to bring his religion into the discussion. There is also nothing wrong with electing Buddhist, Hindu's, etc if they champion conservative policies. I'd happily vote for a conservative Mormon, Hindu, Buddhist, etc over a liberal Christian every day of the week.
Actually Mormon rather than Morman.
There wass a ‘bundling board placed between the bundelers, IIRC.
Based on tthe 25% bastardy rate, that board sometimes had a knothole in it.
Hinduism was something of an artificial umbrella erected over the various offshoots and enhancements to the early vedantic tradition of which they had common origins. (As, some would argue, does Christianity.) Lining all of the gods and practices up into a single pantheon of a single religion makes it look something different from how it has been commonly practiced.
Exactly. I’d say it’s unfair to Hinduism to compare it to Mormonism.
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