15/16ths and 1/16ths ...
... see, I like kittens.
Posted on 01/24/2012 7:05:25 AM PST by EnglishCon
One of the questions I get a lot is what is my stand on abortion. To be flippant, I don’t stand on abortion, that is a heavy enough load for me to need to sit down and catch my breath.
Flippancy doesn’t really cut it.
I believe that, outside certain specific circumstances, abortion is wrong. I believe it is right for pregnancies which imperil the mother. Triage is an old part of medicine, and you save the one that is most likely to be salvagable. Usually, that is the mother. Rarely, it is the child, yet it happens.
I believe it is right for pregnancies resulting from rape or from incest. If there is a textbook definition of an unwanted child, it is the child of rape or incest, and I don’t want to go there. No decent man does. No woman should be expected to love and care for a child concieved in violence. The ladies - and that is the correct word - who carry to term and put the baby up for adoption or raise it get all my respect. But I would not force them to do so.
The rest - I dislike and disapprove of it. And it means absolutely Jack Shit. I am male. I will never be pregnant. I will never, unless I specifically wish it and go to court to fight for it, be left “holding the baby.” The option is there, but men should butt out of the discussion. We don’t have the skin in the game that women do.
Women have the right to decide their own fate. Their own path. One of the things I got from reading the bible and the Christian fathers is yeah, you can tell most of those guys were not married. They had far too high opinion of the “head of the household” influence.
The newer aspect, that the pill is actually an abortition tool because it prevents implantation of a fertilized zygote, I withhold judgement on. The pill hurts women. I don’t like it at all. It is a wee bit better now, but even 20 years ago it was a thing which caused cancers. A fertilized egg may not implant in the uterine lining, even in the best of circumstances.
Like many who believe in both life and rights, I find this issue a hard one to deal with.
You’re both pro-choice. Abortion is NEVER acceptable. Not even in rape and/or incest. Neither of you think too deeply, do you?
And, ixtl, I am a woman, as if that even matters.
15/16ths and 1/16ths ...
... see, I like kittens.
No, everything is not a nail, but some things are.
Look at the title to the thread: the fact is that it IS an easy question, abortion is wrong PERIOD even in cases of rape or incest.
I have asked hundreds of people to list other crimes where they believe the father's children should be put to death for the father's crime and NOBODY has ever given a sufficient answer. Yet, that is EXACTLY what abortionists propose when they talk about rape and incest.
Abortion is like slavery, pretending we can find "common ground" or similar nonsense will NEVER end abortion.
For the life of me, I cannot understand how this isn’t cut & dry to people.
A baby/fetus/embryo/zygote whatever has its own set of DNA. It is a HUMAN BEING, regardless of the stage of development. What’s the difference if it’s 5 days post-conception or 55 years?? We all fall somewhere along the spectrum of human develpment; a 90 year-old is not physiologically the same as a 9 year old BUT that dosen’t make either any less precious. But why is it acceptable to murder an embryo but not a toddler???
Even Dr Seuss gets it: “A person’s a person, no matter how small.” What the hell is wrong with some FReepers???
I don't see him as a nail. I see him as someone who hasn't been given the truth and is searching for it. Salvation did a wonderful job at giving information. That's what he needs. Truth.
I’ve been thinking about your post. Why don’t you go to silentnomore.com & read the testimony of women who’ve had abortions after rape. Almost always, they regret the abortion. Many say they can deal with the rape, but they cannot cope with the abortion. Society is victimizing these women even further by pressuring them to abort their children conceived through rape.
The rape/incest question is a false argument. Aborting these children is WRONG WRONG WRONG. I hope you reach that conclusion.
Your logic is flawed on several levels my friend:
first and foremost:
“The option is there, but men should butt out of the discussion. We don’t have the skin in the game that women do. “
Is complete mush minded BS. The notion that fathers have no skin in the game of their own children, just because that child hasn’t breathed a lungful of air yet, is nonsense. That woman didn’t get spontaneously pregnant, in all of human history, there has only ever been one single allegation of such an event happening, and I don’t recall Mary rushing out to find a coat hanger. So that tidbit of mental tapioca can be flat out dismissed.
Secondly:
Abortion, is not now, nor has it ever been declared legal. What the Supreme Court did in 1973 was a travesty, it did not legalize abortion, it declared there was a inpenetrable veil that the government could not pierce between a doctor and their patient. This allowed abortions to occur, it did not codify them into law. Shockingly though, this supposedly unpenetrable veil is pierced routinely for other matters such as assisted suicide, and the like. So this argument too is falacy and beyond pretzel logic.
Finally, Abortion justified under the context of its a womans right to choose, is absolutely foolish (The libertarian stand, her choice her business)... This of course is an affront to the very concept of libertarianism. To live in Liberty is to be free from opression, one cannot use ones own libterty to engage in the Opression of another, and claim they are exercising and embracing Liberty, they are not, they are engaging in opression. To engage in abortion is to engage not only in opression, but in the most heinous type of opression, the denial of an innocent human being, its fundamental and inalienable right to life. To claim your Liberty allows you the right to do that is a complete afront to the very concept of liberty.
Abortion is murder, nothing less, its a less enflaming word than infanticide, but that is exactly what it is. You cannot turn it into anything else, without creating a world of logical denial and selfishness to attempt to justify the act, but that is indeed all it is, nothing more.
The UK got abortion in 1967.
I don't see him as a nail.
Nor do I, abortion is the nail.
I see him as someone who hasn't been given the truth and is searching for it. Salvation did a wonderful job at giving information. That's what he needs. Truth.
Here is the truth: in the past century more than ONE BILLION babies have been murdered in abortuaries worldwide. That is more deaths than all of the wars, famines, plagues, natural disasters and acts of genocide in the history of the world COMBINED.
There is NOTHING to debate.
Baloney! For starters, being a man means you don't have relations with a woman who may kill your child.
Is an unborn child a human being? It's a yes or no question. If yes, then children conceived of rape or incest should be protected. However, if it took that exception to pass a law protecting the millions of other children, then I would favor the exception.
It's also a total red herring.
AT MOST there are about 3400 pregnancies per year as the result of rape (the actual number is much smaller because it is presupposes that none of the victims are on the Pill, patch, implant etc. and that the rapists all ejaculated in to the woman and didn't use a condom -- simple logic dictates that a very large number rapes do not fit into this category). However, this relatively small number of pregnancies is used to justify the murder of nearly 4000 babies EACH DAY.
I hope your day is lovely. Give people the truth wagglebee. No one has as much info as you do. :-)
You have given very wise words of wisdom. If someone is questioning, then they areable to be persuaded.
I’ll catch a lot of crap over it but I agree with a lot of what you say.
Men have more of a stake in the Abortion War than women do.
Bonus points for anyone who can say how that is so before reading the lines below.
Currently, via Supreme Court pronouncement and the wimpy acquiescence of state legislatures to that pronouncement, women are legally authorized to kill a couple's child by abortion between conception and birth.
What that tells every man in the United States and other countries in which abortion is legal is that his child can be killed by someone else - the mother of his child - and that she is legally authorized to do so.
Indeed, her doing so is celebrated as "a woman's right to choose".
What greater stake in anything could any man - any father - possibly have than protecting the life of his daughter or his son?
Why is it that men are spoken of only in terms of responsibility instead of in terms of rights???
At most, that argument supports a rape/incest exception. If the sex was consensual, that's where her "right to decide" was exercised.
“Why is it that men are spoken of only in terms of responsibility instead of in terms of rights???”
###
Lots of Lesbo and other, assorted man-haters in positions of power?
Here’s an excellent you tube video about abortion based on a Michael Card song, *Spirit of the Age*. It’s VERY moving.
Spirit of the Age - Michael Card
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CT8OPGrTg-c
I would like to know the source of your figures on abortion?
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