Posted on 01/14/2012 12:04:24 AM PST by Brian Kopp DPM
CONGREGATION FOR THE DOCTRINE OF THE FAITH
RESPONSE TO A 'DUBIUM'
on the validity of baptism conferred by
«The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints»,
called «Mormons»
Question: Wheter the baptism conferred by the community «The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints», called «Mormons» in the vernacular, is valid.
Response: Negative.
The Supreme Pontiff John Paul II, in the Audience granted to the undersigned Cardinal Prefect, approved the present Response, decided in the Sessione Ordinaria of this Congregation, and ordered it published.
From the Offices of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, 5 June 2001.
+ Joseph Cardinal RATZINGER
Prefect
+ Tarcisio BERTONE, S.D.B.
Archbishop emeritus of Vercelli
Secretary
Huge divergence on Trinity and baptism invalidates the intention of the Mormon minister of baptism and of the one to be baptized
Colofornian does great work in her exposure of Mormonism, she needs more Catholic participation and supportive rebuttal of those Catholics who are sympathetic to Mormonism though, in my opinion.
I remember GOP_Lady for instance, I don’t know why she wasn’t under constant attack by her fellow Catholics, she was a fierce warrior for promoting the idea that Mormonism was Christian, I fought her tooth and nail, and constantly exposed her to the official Catholic view.
ansell2:
If the tract has an Imprimatur on it, then that will tend to quite the protests down a bit.
What do you mean?
You mean for Catholic Answers?
ansel12:
Some of the Catholic Answers tracts do in fact have an Imprmatur and Nihil Obstat on them. That is what I was refering to.
Even many, if not most Catholics don’t know what that means, only a rare non-Catholic would, I was asking what they are.
When Catholic Answers was rejected when it came to Mormonism, I never saw any Catholics come to it’s defense, is CA just no good as a source?
Most of the LDS members I have encountered are Trinitarian (One Godhead), especially if they grew up in a Protestant church.
- - - -
Actually they are not, not really. They are more henothesists. They believe there are millions of gods, and that there are 3 separate gods who are the “God” for this world. They flat out reject the Trinity.
I grew up in Protestant churches but never ‘got it’, converted to Mormonism, then left and became a Christian after several years.
Mormons WILL lie to you and use Christian terms that make them seem Christian or trinitarian but they aren’t really and they know it.
“Mormons WILL lie to you and use Christian terms that make them seem Christian or trinitarian but they aren’t really and they know it.”
Which begs the question; How do you know they are lying?
How do *I* know? Or how can a casual never Mormon know?
Ping
Jesus answered, “The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent.”
1 John 3:21-24
Dear friends, if our hearts do not condemn us, we have confidence before God and receive from him anything we ask, because we keep his commands and do what pleases him. And this is his command: to believe in the name of his Son, Jesus Christ, and to love one another as he commanded us. The one who keeps God’s commands lives in him, and he in them. And this is how we know that he lives in us: We know it by the Spirit he gave us.
Acts 2:40-41
And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.
Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.
Oh??
Not to that thief fellow next to him on the cross.
And, in Acts, chapter 15, it somehow never got mentioned.
5 Then some of the believers who belonged to the party of the Pharisees stood up and said, “The Gentiles must be circumcised and required to keep the law of Moses.”
6 The apostles and elders met to consider this question. 7 After much discussion, Peter got up and addressed them: “Brothers, you know that some time ago God made a choice among you that the Gentiles might hear from my lips the message of the gospel and believe. 8 God, who knows the heart, showed that he accepted them by giving the Holy Spirit to them, just as he did to us. 9 He did not discriminate between us and them, for he purified their hearts by faith. 10 Now then, why do you try to test God by putting on the necks of Gentiles a yoke that neither we nor our ancestors have been able to bear? 11 No! We believe it is through the grace of our Lord Jesus that we are saved, just as they are.”
12 The whole assembly became silent as they listened to Barnabas and Paul telling about the signs and wonders God had done among the Gentiles through them. 13 When they finished, James spoke up. “Brothers,” he said, “listen to me. 14 Simon[a] has described to us how God first intervened to choose a people for his name from the Gentiles. 15 The words of the prophets are in agreement with this, as it is written:
16 “‘After this I will return
and rebuild David’s fallen tent.
Its ruins I will rebuild,
and I will restore it,
17 that the rest of mankind may seek the Lord,
even all the Gentiles who bear my name,
says the Lord, who does these things’[b]—
18 things known from long ago.[c]
19 “It is my judgment, therefore, that we should not make it difficult for the Gentiles who are turning to God. 20 Instead we should write to them, telling them to abstain from food polluted by idols, from sexual immorality, from the meat of strangled animals and from blood. 21 For the law of Moses has been preached in every city from the earliest times and is read in the synagogues on every Sabbath.”
The apostles and elders, your brothers,
To the Gentile believers in Antioch, Syria and Cilicia:
Greetings.
24 We have heard that some went out from us without our authorization and disturbed you, troubling your minds by what they said. 25 So we all agreed to choose some men and send them to you with our dear friends Barnabas and Paul— 26 men who have risked their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ. 27 Therefore we are sending Judas and Silas to confirm by word of mouth what we are writing. 28 It seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us not to burden you with anything beyond the following requirements: 29 You are to abstain from food sacrificed to idols, from blood, from the meat of strangled animals and from sexual immorality. You will do well to avoid these things.
Farewell.
30 So the men were sent off and went down to Antioch, where they gathered the church together and delivered the letter. 31 The people read it and were glad for its encouraging message. 32 Judas and Silas, who themselves were prophets, said much to encourage and strengthen the believers. 33 After spending some time there, they were sent off by the believers with the blessing of peace to return to those who had sent them. [34] [d] 35 But Paul and Barnabas remained in Antioch, where they and many others taught and preached the word of the Lord.
Oh??
PAUL was a little limp on it's REQUIREMENT...
1 Corinthians 1:10-17 10 I appeal to you, brothers and sisters,[a] in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that all of you agree with one another in what you say and that there be no divisions among you, but that you be perfectly united in mind and thought. 11 My brothers and sisters, some from Chloe’s household have informed me that there are quarrels among you. 12 What I mean is this: One of you says, “I follow Paul”; another, “I follow Apollos”; another, “I follow Cephas[b]”; still another, “I follow Christ.” 13 Is Christ divided? Was Paul crucified for you? Were you baptized in the name of Paul? 14 I thank God that I did not baptize any of you except Crispus and Gaius, 15 so no one can say that you were baptized in my name. 16 (Yes, I also baptized the household of Stephanas; beyond that, I don’t remember if I baptized anyone else.) 17 For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel—not with wisdom and eloquence, lest the cross of Christ be emptied of its power.
I am TIRED of these softballs!
Got anything harder to swing at? ;^)
That’s why you didn’t answer it.
Well; since it wasn't directed expressly to me and I was just butting in...
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