Posted on 01/03/2012 3:30:48 PM PST by Gamecock
Not many people get the opportunity to attend seminary. In an amazing way I have attended two. The first was training for the Roman Catholic priesthood in Ireland and the second at a conservative Evangelical seminary in England.
Raised a Catholic . . . but not knowing God Like most boys in the Republic of Ireland in the 1980s, I was brought up a Roman Catholic. My parents taught me to live a good life, say my prayers, and attend mass every Sunday. I believed there was a God, but I didn't know him personally. I prayed as my mother taught me, but I never knew whether or not God was really listening. I attended confession monthly and did many penances. Conscious of my sinfulness, I hoped that God would accept me into heaven if I did enough good works. I tried to live the best life I could. It was like balancing the accounts, hoping that my credits (good works) would cancel my debits (sins). Zealous to please God, I was just eleven years old when I decided to become a Roman Catholic priest. I told the local priest, but he said I would have to wait until I was eighteen before I could enter the seminary.
During my teenage years I got involved in much sinful behaviour. I rebelled against God and disobeyed his commandments. I loved my sin, but I hated that miserable life and started to cry out to God. I realise now that God was working in my heart. He showed me I was a sinner. I longed to be right with him. This became the focus of my life. I knew that I needed to be saved from my sins. I went on a pilgrimage to a famous Roman Catholic shrine. I ate oatcakes, drank black tea, and crawled on my knees around the Stations of the Cross over three days to do penance for my sins. I fasted and meditated but never knew pardon for sin. I wanted to know forgiveness, but how?
Training for the priesthood
At the age of nineteen, and after checking different possible organisations, I finally decided to join the Society of Missions to Africa (SMA). They are a society of priests who live together in small communities in different parts of the world, seeking to convert pagans to the Roman religion. I entered the Roman Catholic Seminary located in Maynooth, County Kildare, Ireland. During my two years at seminary, I learned about religion and philosophy but there were no biblical studies. I attended daily mass and monthly confession but, alas, there was no teaching on forgiveness for sin. We had set times of prayer as a community - morning, evening, and night. I heard many talks that were focused on pleasing God by doing charitable works and buying favour with God through the church. I also heard a lot about how to use psychology to counsel people spiritually. Not once did I hear how to be reconciled to God through Christ who alone could forgive my sins.
I began to read the Bible (a Protestant translation my parents had given to me). As I read it, I asked the priests serious questions about the religious rituals in the Roman Catholic faith, but they couldn't show me any scriptural basis whatsoever for so much of their superstition and their many traditions. I discovered that the Bible does not promote the veneration of Mary as practiced in the Roman Catholic Church. The official teaching of the Roman Church is that Mary does not necessarily answer prayers but rather intercedes on the Catholic's behalf and prays for them. However, the Bible teaches that she is a sinner: in the famous 'Magnificat' she is found praying to God her Saviour. Mary knew she had sinned and we find her rejoicing in God her Saviour, the one conceived in her womb by the Holy Spirit - Jesus Christ her Lord.
I realised that rosaries and prayers to the saints have no scriptural basis. Mary is addressed in Roman Catholic prayers (eg 'O Mary, conceived without sin, pray for us who have recourse to thee'), but the Saviour teaches us to pray to the Father directly. Indeed, the Bible warns us against ritualistic prayer. This described me exactly: outwardly very holy and pious, but inwardly my heart was sinful and corrupt. Also, the Roman Church teaches its followers to pray to the saints. There is a saint for almost every circumstance, such as St Christopher for travel, St Anthony for lost property, St Martin de Porres for healing, St Joseph for the dying, St Vincent de Paul for the poor, and St Jude for lost causes. Unable to find anything in Scripture to support these things, I asked the priests many questions, and I was told that these Church traditions could not be questioned.
I was conscious of my sin and longed to have assurance of salvation. I asked the priests but I was told that we could never be sure of salvation until we died. I was instructed to attend the priest for confession, but I did not find that in Scripture either. The Bible instructs us to confess our sins to God, not to human priests. I also realised that as a priest I would have to hear people's confessions and absolve them. I was confused. How could I forgive other people's sins, when I did not even know forgiveness myself? I now realise that the Lord was lifting the veil from my eyes to show me that true faith and forgiveness for sin is to be found in Christ alone.
Eventually, I left the Roman seminary in 1995. The Society had decided that I was not suitable, but the Lord, through his Word, had shown me the errors of Rome and that I shouldn't continue training for the priesthood. I had entered the seminary thinking that I would find God's answer to my sins. When I left, I thought that I had finished with God - but he hadn't finished with me! Over the next two years I lived in Dublin and continued my search for God. I went to various Protestant churches and also met people from different cults. One cult told me that if I was to be baptized again, then I would be born again. This sounded too much like the Roman Church and its teaching of justification by works, so I had nothing more to do with them.
Going to England
I went to London in preparation for nursing studies. On the first night I met a man who told me how I could know forgiveness for sin. He gave me a leaflet that emphasized the need to trust in Jesus Christ alone. I read this leaflet many times, but still had no peace with God. Although well physically, I became very depressed spiritually.
I knew that I was condemned if I was not converted. The Bible told me that if I did not believe then the wrath of God abode upon me. Then I read 'There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit' (Rom. 8:1). This was a constant challenge to me. I was alone in a huge city with no one to turn to for spiritual help. How my heart yearned to be right with God.
While pursuing my nursing studies, I met some students who seemed to know God. I attended their church where the Bible was central to the whole service. The sermon was preached from the Bible - that was something completely new to me. Deep down I knew these people were genuine Christians. I asked many questions and started to attend the church regularly. About this time, a small Christian group was meeting in my halls of residence. I went along aiming to disrupt the meetings, but slowly began to be drawn to Christ. I saw that they had something that I didn't have - peace with God and a real love for Christ. They knew the reality of 'Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ' (Rom. 5:1). One of them gave me J. I. Packer's book, Knowing God. I read the book and saw that I too could know God in a personal way.
My conversion
One Sunday morning, 8th February 1998, I was listening to a sermon from Luke 10:30-37 about the Good Samaritan. The preacher spoke of Jesus Christ being like the Good Samaritan - coming to help us in our wretched sinful state - while revealing that the Holy Spirit gives new life to lost sinners. He also urged the listeners to repent of sin and trust in Jesus Christ alone for forgiveness. I called upon Jesus Christ to save me, 'For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved' (Rom. 10:13). There and then, I knelt down in my room and prayed, 'O God, I know that you have sent your Son Jesus Christ into the world to save sinners. Will you save me? I trust in Christ alone and ask that you would come into my life by the power of your Holy Spirit and make me new.' I felt a huge weight of guilt and sin taken from my heart. As soon as I opened my eyes a deep sense of peace came over me. At that moment I knew that I was a Christian and truly forgiven of all my sins. The Bible became the living Word of God and he was speaking to me as I read. I realised that we are not saved by works but by grace, 'For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast' (Eph. 2:8,9). I was baptised in London as a believer in September 1998. After my baptism I struggled with temptations and trials, but the Lord was my constant refuge: 'God is our refuge and strength, a very present help in trouble'(Psa. 46:1).
My life as a Christian
On my first visit back to Ireland, I did not know of a Christian church, so I went to mass with my parents. I realised the priest was re-enacting a sacrifice that was accomplished once and for all on the cross of Calvary (Heb. 9:26; 1 Pet. 3:18). For this reason, I couldn't attend the Roman Catholic mass any longer. As a young Irish man, swearing was second nature to me. Very soon after my conversion this dried up. Worldly pursuits like drinking in pubs and going to nightclubs ceased. Prayer and communion with God became a whole new area of experience. I had learned formal rote prayer as a young boy, but now I began truly to pray from my heart. This is still an amazing experience to me: to be able to lift my heart to God as my Father and know that he is listening and will answer my prayers according to his will.
My family were upset that I had left the Roman Catholic faith. At first they thought it was another religious phase I was going through, but they soon realised that this was different. However, the Lord gave me opportunities to share the true gospel with them. About a year later my youngest brother was converted. What joy filled my heart!
Since my conversion, the Lord has taught me so much from his Word. I am especially thankful to one man from the church in London who helped me to study the Bible. We did a complete overview of the Scriptures together, as well as an in-depth study of the doctrines of grace (Calvinism). The glorious truth that God is sovereign in salvation and reaches out in mercy to sinners is truly humbling and amazing. That God, the Creator and Sustainer of the world, should call wretched sinners to himself illustrates his grace. What a joyful day it will be when all his people are united with him in heaven.
Christian service and ministry
About a year after my conversion I was seeking the Lord about serving him. One Lord's Day evening after the service I was praying to the Lord asking him where he wanted me to serve. I read 2 Timothy 3:16-4:5 and was profoundly challenged. I had never studied this portion of God's Word before. It was impressed on me that this was how the Lord wanted me to serve him - to preach the Word. I graduated and worked for a year in the National Treatment Centre for Alcohol and Drugs. Some of the patients were hardened criminals; others were involved in sordid areas of society due to their addictions. I realised the psychological treatment was not dealing with their real problem: their unpardoned sin. I couldn't witness openly to the patients but some enquired what kept me through the difficult times in my life. I told them that it was my faith in the Lord Jesus Christ, and they were amazed. Both my housemate and a Roman Catholic friend were converted and baptised during this time. It was a great privilege to see the Lord use even me to win sinners to Christ. I conducted a Bible Study in Colossians with some Jehovah's Witnesses. They began to seek Christ but their leaders visited and put an end to it. I pray for these people, that the Lord would open their eyes to his truth. As I taught young boys in a Crusaders Class I soon realized that children can be taught the deep truths of Scripture in a simple, understandable way.
The Lord opened up the way for me to study at London Theological Seminary. The lasting memories of my time there are of the nightly prayer meetings with fellow students and the godly men who taught us theology and prepared us for the ministry.
How about the Church following Scriptural mandate, from the Bible that Catholics claim the RCC wrote, in 1 Corinthians 5 and purge the evil from within themselves.
And how about that's a REALLY, REALLY good reason why a person's salvation is not dependent on going through some other human being than Jesus Christ?
No. What makes me feel like throwing up over the situation is what I said, plain and simple. But perhaps that's why you're having trouble understanding it.
Like caww said, imagining where the priest put those same hands that are now lifting up the host in consecration.....
That's what's sickening, and no, I don't think God is going to damn a child because of a priest.
You need to sincerely pray to God that the Holy Spirit will enlighten you and guide you to the fullness of truth only found in the Catholic Church, the Church founded by Jesus Christ.
I see you’ve dropped the pretense that this has anything to do with doctrine.
I agree, mm. Of course God isn’t going to damn a child because of a priest. The problem is the child, being taught from the beginning that that priest can retain or remit that child’s sins, is bound and chained to that priest and the Church for his salvation. (He THINKS, because that’s what he’s been taught). THAT’S what is sickening, to me. Pray for those children to have their eyes opened and to see the truth of God’s Word. That their salvation depends on no man or institution, but on the finished work of Christ. And that alone.
If you truly believe in Him, receive him as Savior, then, yes, you WILL do as he commands. Jesus said, "If you love me you will obey my commandments." We are indwelt with the Holy Spirit, reborn as children of God, and the new nature seeks after goodness and light. But, here's the difference, one does not "do" or "obey" in order to BE saved, but because we ARE saved. "He who has the Son has life and he has not the Son of God has NOT life, but the wrath of God abides on him." (John 3:17). By faith is how we are saved. By our works, our fruit, is how we demonstrate our faith. Faith that does not demonstrate good fruit is a dead faith, one that is not genuine. It should be obvious, though, that works are an outward sign of an inward change.
As far as "unless you eat of my flesh and drink of my blood, you shall not have life within you", I fully believe that. But I also believe that when we receive him, believe on him, we ARE consuming Him. Look what he actually said as recorded by John 6:27-29
Do not work for food that spoils, but for food that endures to eternal life, which the Son of Man will give you. For on him God the Father has placed his seal of approval.” Then they asked him, “What must we do to do the works God requires?” Jesus answered, “The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent.”
Then he added, verses 35-40:
Then Jesus declared, “I am the bread of life. Whoever comes to me will never go hungry, and whoever believes in me will never be thirsty. But as I told you, you have seen me and still you do not believe. All those the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never drive away. For I have come down from heaven not to do my will but to do the will of him who sent me. And this is the will of him who sent me, that I shall lose none of all those he has given me, but raise them up at the last day. For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.”
We CAN'T observe the commandments of God because it impossible for a sin tainted human being to do so, ...Really a very odd idea. And I suspect you reject the following, as well:
“Jesus said to them again, ‘Peace be with you. As the Father has sent me, even so I send you.’ And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and said to them, ‘Receive the Holy Spirit. If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained.’ “
Let's see what Jesus says.
John 15: 1 I AM the true vine; and my Father is the husbandman. 2 Every branch in me, that beareth not fruit, he will take away: and every one that beareth fruit, he will purge it, that it may bring forth more fruit. 3 Now you are clean by reason of the word, which I have spoken to you. 4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, unless it abide in the vine, so neither can you, unless you abide in me. 5 I am the vine; you the branches: he that abideth in me, and I in him, the same beareth much fruit: for without me you can do nothing. 6 If any one abide not in me, he shall be cast forth as a branch, and shall wither, and they shall gather him up, and cast him into the fire, and he burneth. 7 If you abide in me, and my words abide in you, you shall ask whatever you will, and it shall be done unto you. 8 In this is my Father glorified; that you bring forth very much fruit, and become my disciples. 9 As the Father hath loved me, I also have loved you. Abide in my love. 10 If you keep my commandments, you shall abide in my love; as I also have kept my Father's commandments, and do abide in his love. 11 These things I have spoken to you, that my joy may be in you, and your joy may be filled.
What else does Jesus say?
Matthew 5: 43 You have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbor, and hate thy enemy. 44 But I say to you, Love your enemies: do good to them that hate you: and pray for them that persecute and calumniate you: 45 That you may be the children of your Father who is in heaven, who maketh his sun to rise upon the good, and bad, and raineth upon the just and the unjust. 46 For if you love them that love you, what reward shall you have? do not even the publicans this? 47 And if you salute your brethren only, what do you more? do not also the heathens this? 48 Be you therefore perfect, as also your heavenly Father is perfect.
Yes, you might be right. Let's not even bother trying while we struggle to open the champagne bottles during our limo ride to heaven.
They don’t care. They all think they’re going to heaven anyway because they believe in their ersatz Jesus; They’re “born again”.
In their minds it doesn’t matter what they do. Ersatz Jesus covered all their sins, every last one of them, even their pedophile preachers. No one is going to hell except the Catholics, buddists, Jews, etc.
See, what you don’t realize is that you’ve come all the away around to the position that the Catholic Church was arguing in refutation of Luther. Luther was charged with making the following statements:
In every good work the just man sins.
A good work done very well is a venial sin.
No one is certain that he is not always sinning mortally, because of the most hidden vice of pride.
Great is the error of those who approach the sacrament of the Eucharist relying on this, that they have confessed, that they are not conscious of any mortal sin, that they have sent their prayers on ahead and made preparations; all these eat and drink judgment to themselves.
As long as we wish to confess all sins without exception, we are doing nothing else than to wish to leave nothing to God’s mercy for pardon.
By no means may you presume to confess venial sins, nor even all mortal sins, because it is impossible that you know all mortal sins.
Contrition, which is acquired through discussion, collection, and detestation of sins, by which one reflects upon his years in the bitterness of his soul, by pondering over the gravity of sins, their number, their baseness, the loss of eternal beatitude, and the acquisition of eternal damnation, this contrition makes him a hypocrite, indeed more a sinner.
Thus, the pope wrote of Luther as he excommunicated him:
Nevertheless Martin himself—and it gives us grievous sorrow and perplexity to say this—the slave of a depraved mind, has scorned to revoke his errors within the prescribed interval and to send us word of such revocation, or to come to us him-self; nay, like a stone of stumbling, he has feared not to write and preach worse things than before against us and this Holy See and the Catholic faith, and to lead others on to do the same.
Not through works. Not through baptism. Not through some organization which claims it was established by Jesus. Through JESUS HIMSELF.
Works don't save. Without the shedding of blood there is no remission of sins.
Jesus died for me, not the pope, the ECF's, the saints, Mary, the priests, nobody.
My sin is against God. HE is the one of whom I must ask forgiveness and He's the only one who can grant it.
Nobody else can forgive and cleanse my sin against someone else. It's only the person who the offense is against who I must ask forgiveness from and who can forgive me.
“Jesus said to them again, ‘Peace be with you. As the Father has sent me, even so I send you.’ And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and said to them, ‘Receive the Holy Spirit. If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained.’ “
“Jesus said to them again, ‘Peace be with you. As the Father has sent me, even so I send you.’ And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and said to them, ‘Receive the Holy Spirit. If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained.’ “
Additionally...The ONLY reason the world even knows of the clergy abuse is because the press has exposed it. It certainly isn't because the catholic membership or leadership spoke up to the authorities as they should of to stop these perverts.
Furthermore...It’s really disingenuous for the catholic church to try to deflect its faults to others.... In the rest of the world if a person is involved in felony rape of a child then they are accused, go to jail if found guilty, and are labeled as a “sex offender.”....... In contrast the Catholic Church has a long history of hiding and moving priests around and only until recently were still not fully cooperating with the law enforcement authorities.
You can claim all you want of what PaulII did but few would agree 95% of the problem is resolved...the evidence shows otherwise....and the only reason the mechanisms the church has now put into place are there because your church was shamed into doing it……exposed for what it's been doing,…….....individuals who cared more for their reputations and monies, and it's abusive perverts than they have or do for children... or the devastation which comes to their families.
Benedict XVI,.... who as head of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith has publicly acknowledged the enormous pain he endured reading the thousands of reports of abuse that crossed his own desk year after year. Rome..... Since the early 1980s , he was in a position to know the extent, the depth and the horror of the problem, and he was in a position to lead the Church in responding to the problem....he “supremely” failed.
And let's be frank of what some of these Priests have done just so your eyes are wide open...this was in the Phila. Archdiocese and only some of the happenings the grand jury reported:
- An 11-year-old girl was repeatedly raped by a priest who took her for an abortion when she became pregnant.
- A fifth grader was molested by a priest inside a confessional.
- A teenage girl was groped by a priest while she lay immobilized in traction in a hospital room.
- A priest offered money to boys in exchange for sadomasochistic acts of bondage and wrote a letter asking a boy to make him his “slave.” The priest remains in ministry.
- A sadistic priest enjoyed having children play the roles of Jesus and other biblical characters in parish Passion plays. He made them disrobe and whip each other until they had cuts, bruises and welts.
- A priest falsely told a 12-year-old boy his mother knew of the assaults and consented to the rape of her son.
The grand jury found that many victims were abused for years and that many priests abused multiple victims, sometimes preying on members of the same family. One of the Priests was determined to be on a “criminal rampage” abused 17 victims,.. many of them from a single parish. Another abused 16 victims and was allowed to stay in his pastoral role for decades after the first abuse report in 1966.
And so....this is just on ONE Diocese.....how many are still being hidden and protected which we do not know of because the Pope and others are sheltering them.????
So, what you may not realize is that I have not arrived at the position of the Catholic Church WRT justification since I know full well what they teach and I find it both unscriptural and irrational. It fits Paul's definition of an accursed Gospel since it misses the whole point of grace. Something Luther understood pretty well.
Wrong again....the fullness of truth is found only in Christ Jesus...not in a denomination especially that of Catholicism.
Jesus said....I am the way.. the truth.. and.. the life no man can come to the father except by me...Jn 14:6 .... if indeed you have heard Him and have been taught in Him, just as truth is in Jesus....Eph 1
Fixing our eyes on Jesus, the author and perfecter of faith...HEB: 12:2... consider Jesus, the Apostle and High Priest of our confession.... Heb 3:1
" And we know that the Son of God has come, and has given us understanding so that we may know Him who is true; and we are in Him who is true, in His Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God and eternal life"...1Jn 5:20
John 20:23 (KJV)"Whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them; and whose soever sins ye retain, they are retained."
Acts 10:41-43 "He was not seen by all the people, but by witnesses whom God had already chosen—by us who ate and drank with him after he rose from the dead. He commanded us to preach to the people and to testify that he is the one whom God appointed as judge of the living and the dead. All the prophets testify about him that everyone who believes in him receives forgiveness of sins through his name.”
Yes, they shall receive forgiveness THROUGH HIS NAME. Meaning, they will be forgiven in the name of Christ. Who dares speak in the name of Christ? Only he who does so not from his own will, but who is granted such authority to do so. And who is that? Any Christian? No, for one Christian may forgive sins, while another retains them, making the promise of Christ a logical contradiction. Only one who speaks for Christ, annointed with the specific authority to do so, can remit or forgive sins.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.