Posted on 12/28/2011 5:47:17 PM PST by rzman21
How I led Catholics Out of the Church STEVE WOOD I was a Protestant for twenty years before I became a Catholic. I led many people out of the Catholic Church. My formula for getting Catholics to leave the Church usually consisted of three steps.
Step 1: Get Catholics to have a conversion experience in a Protestant setting. Most Fundamentalist, Evangelical, and charismatic Protestant churches have dynamic youth programs, vibrant Wednesday and Sunday evening services, and friendly small-group bible studies. In addition, they host special crusades, seminars and concerts. At the invitation of a Protestant friend, a Catholic may begin attending one or more of these events while still going to Sunday Mass at his local parish. Most Protestant services proclaim a simple gospel: repent from sin and follow Christ in faith. They stress the importance of a personal relationship with Jesus and the reward of eternal life. Most of the Catholics who attend these services are not accustomed to hearing such direct challenges to abandon sin and follow Christ. As a result, many Catholics experience a genuine conversion.
Protestants should be commended for their zeal in promoting conversions. Catholic leaders need to multiply the opportunities for their people to have such conversions in Catholic settings. The reason is simple. About five out of ten people adopt the beliefs of the denomination where they have their conversion. This percentage is even higher for those who had profound conversions or charismatic experiences that were provided by Protestants. (Believe me, I know; I was a graduate of an Assembly of God college and a youth minister in two charismatic churches.)
Protestant pastors, evangelists, youth leaders, and lay ministers are acutely aware that conversion experiences in Protestant settings often lead to a Protestant faith and church membership. Why do so many Catholic leaders fail to see this? Why are they so nonchalant about a process that has pulled hundreds of thousands of Catholics out of the Church?
Step 2: Give their conversion a Protestant interpretation.
A genuine conversion is one of life's most precious experiences, comparable to marriage or the birth of a child. Conversion awakens a deep hunger for God. Effective Protestant ministries train workers to follow up on this spiritual longing.
Before a stadium crusade, I would give follow-up workers a six-week training course. I showed them how to present a Protestant interpretation of the conversion experience with a selective use of bible verses. The scripture of choice was of course John 3:3, the "born-again" verse: "Jesus declared, 'I tell you the truth, no one can see the kingdom of God unless he is born again.'
I used the "touch and go" scripture technique, similar to that used by pilots training for landings and takeoffs. We would briefly touch down on John 3:3 to show that being born again was necessary for eternal life. Then I would describe conversion in terms of being born again. We would make a hasty takeoff before reading John 3:5 which stresses the necessity of being "born of water and spirit." I never mentioned that for 20 centuries the Orthodox and Catholic Churches, echoing the unanimous teaching of the Church fathers, understood this passage as referring to the Sacrament of Baptism! And I certainly never brought up Titus 3:5 ("He saved us through the washing of rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit") as a parallel reference to John 3:5.
In my experience as a Protestant, all the Catholics who had a conversion in a Protestant setting lacked a firm grasp of their Catholic faith.
In twenty years of Protestant ministry, I never met a Catholic who knew that John 3:3-8 describes the sacrament of Baptism. It wasn't hard to convince them to disregard the sacraments along with the Church that emphasized the sacraments.
Proverbs says: "He who states his case first seems right, until the other comes and examines him" (18:17). Catholics without a scriptural foundation for their Catholic beliefs never hear "the rest of the story." My selective use of scripture made the Protestant perspective seem so absolutely sure. Over time, this one-sided approach to scripture caused Catholics to reject their Catholic faith.
Step 3: Accuse the Catholic church of denying salvation by grace.
Catholics often consider Protestants who proselytize to be bigoted, narrow-minded, or prejudiced. This is unfair and inaccurate; a profound charity energizes their misguided zeal.
There was only one reason I led Catholics out of the Church: I thought they were on their way to hell. I mistakenly thought the Catholic Church denied that salvation was by grace; I knew that anyone who believed this wasn't going to heaven. Out of love for their immortal souls, I worked tirelessly to convert them.
I used Ephesians 2:8-9 to convince Catholics that it was imperative for them to leave the Church:
For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith — and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God — not by works, so that no one can boast. First I would say, "The Bible says that salvation is by grace and not by works. Right?" Their answer was always yes. Then I would say, "The Catholic Church teaches that salvation is by works. Right?" (I never met a Catholic who did not say yes. Every Catholic I met during my twenty years of ministry confirmed my misconception that Catholicism taught salvation is by works instead of grace.) Finally, I would declare, "The Catholic Church is leading people to hell by denying salvation is by grace. You'd better join a church that teaches the true way to heaven."
Because I would also do a "touch and go" in Ephesians, I rarely quoted verse 10 which says, "For we are God's workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do." Listen carefully to stadium evangelists, televangelists, and radio preachers. Nine times out of ten they will quote Ephesians 2:8-9 with great emphasis and never mention verse 10.
We are not slaves futilely trying to earn salvation by doing "works of the law" (Eph. 2:8-9). Yet as sons of God we are inspired and energized by the Holy Spirit to do "good works" as we cooperate with our heavenly father in extending the Kingdom of God (Eph. 2:10). Catholicism believes and teaches the full message of Ephesians 2:8-10, without equivocating or abbreviating the truth.
For twenty centuries the Catholic Church has faithfully taught that salvation is by grace. Peter the first pope said, "We believe it is through the grace of our Lord Jesus that we are saved" (Acts 15:11). The Catechism of the Catholic Church, fully endorsed by Pope John Paul II, says, "Our justification comes from the grace of God" (section 1996).
Protestantism started when Martin Luther declared that we are justified (made righteous) by faith alone. At the time I was leading Catholics out of the Church, I wasn't aware that Martin Luther had added the word alone to his translation of Romans 3:28 in order to prove his doctrine. (The word alone is not found in any contemporary Protestant English translation of Romans 3:28.) I didn't realize that the only place the bible mentions "faith alone" in the context of salvation is in James 2:24, where the idea of faith alone is explicitly refuted: "You see that a person is justified by what he does and not by faith alone." This verse was troubling, but I either ignored it, or twisted it to mean something other that what the verse and its context clearly taught.
Should Catholics participate in Protestant events?
I have no objection to Catholics participating in Protestant-oriented events and worthwhile ecumenical activities provided that:
they have a firm grasp of their Catholic faith. they know their faith well enough to articulate it to a non-Catholic, using scripture and the Church fathers. they have the maturity to realize that the most profound presence of Christ isn't necessarily found in the midst of loud noise and high emotion, but in quiet moments like Eucharistic adoration (see 1 Kings 19:11-12). Unfortunately, the majority of Catholic men born after WWII don't meet the above conditions. For them, attending Protestant functions may be opening a door that will lead them right out of the Catholic Church.
There are now thousands of Catholic men on the brink of leaving the one Church Christ died to establish. I recently heard of a group of Catholic men who decided not to consult the Catechism of the Catholic Church in their small-group bible study. They believed that all they needed was scripture alone. Three of these men claimed that they no longer believe in the Real Presence of Christ in the Eucharist. I can tell you from experience where this group is headed: straight out of the Catholic Church.
Over the past three decades, thousands of Catholics have left the Church for Protestant pastures. The largest church in America is the Catholic Church; the second largest group of Christians in America is former-Catholics. The Catholic men's movement has a solemn obligation to help men discover the biblical and historical roots of their Catholic faith. Then, rather than leaving, they will become instruments to help others discover the treasures of Catholicism.
Remember that a man who leaves the Church will often take his family with him — for generations. It took my family four hundred years — 10 generations — to come back to the Church after a generation of my ancestors in Norway, England, Germany and Scotland decided to leave the Catholic Church.
As one whose family has made the round-trip back to Catholicism, let me extend a personal plea to Catholic men, especially the leaders of various Catholic men's groups: don't put untrained Catholics in a Protestant setting. They might gain a short-term religious experience, but they take the long-term risk of losing their faith. It would be highly irresponsible to expose them to Protestantism before they are fully exposed to Catholicism.
At my dad's funeral twenty-nine years ago, I tearfully sang his favorite hymn, Faith of Our Fathers. Little did my dad, a minister's son, or I realize that the true faith of our forefathers was Roman Catholicism. Every day I thank God for bringing me back to the ancient Church of my ancestors. Every year God gives me breath on this earth I will keep proclaiming to both my Protestant brethren and to cradle Catholics the glorious faith of our fathers.
ACKNOWLEDGEMENT
Wood, Steve. "How I led Catholics Out of the Church." St. Joseph's Covenant Newsletter 4 no. 2 (March/April 1998).
Reprinted with permission St. Joseph's Covenant Newsletter.
THE AUTHOR
Steve Wood is the founder of St. Joseph's Covenant Keepers (SJCK), a dynamic apostolate for Catholic men, and runs the web site dads.org.
Copyright © 1998 St. Joseph's Covenant Newsletter
It is the written Word of God. It provides the basis for our prayers and knowledge of how best to please Him.
>>So that is why Protestants can’t even agree among themselves what the Bible means with unanimity.
While undeniable that many Catholics have left the Church for Protestant churches, it does not follow that these churches were actively engaged in "stealing sheep" from the Church. Many of the new adherents to these growing Protestant denominations came from "liberal" and mainline Protestant denominations that were denying fundamental Christian dogmas and moral teachings.
I have been associated with a good number of Protestant churches and ministries, and have never seen any formal attempt to "convert" Catholics.
Truth be told, most of these new "converts" are attracted to growing Protestant churches because they sense a more lively and active expression of the Christian faith. This may be an inadequate reason to leave the Church, and may - as you suggest - be largely for "emotional" reasons, but there is no evidence I know of that those churches actively attempted to "recruit" Catholics or preached against Catholicism from the pulpit.
The daily anti-Mormon diatribes on FR are another good example. Mormonism has some really kooky doctrines, but the Mormon Church has been a fighter for family values for all Americans against gay rights, abortion, etc.
This last statement I found positively astounding. You call Protestants "apostates" without batting an eyelid, and in the next breath defend Mormons, whose religious tenets are "apostate" and "heretical" in the extreme?
You didn’t sin against me.
Funny, I was thinking the same thing AMPU. And his comments are contrary to the teachings of JPII as I recall.
It’s been more than 20 years already.
You call Protestants “apostates” without batting an eyelid, and in the next breath defend Mormons, whose religious tenets are “apostate” and “heretical” in the extreme?
>>I call Catholics who leave for Protestantism apostates. Those like my family members who were born into Protestantism are as Pope Pius IX said, “Invincibly ignorant” and are not culpable for their schism with the Catholic Church.
Catholics who become Protestants, however, are culpable for their schism and heresy.
I have been associated with a good number of Protestant churches and ministries, and have never seen any formal attempt to “convert” Catholics.
>>Perhaps, yours hasn’t, but there are quite a few that do.
Excellent post.
Clearly your experiences are the exception, not the norm.
I have, many times, had Protestant “friends” actively try to convert me. Many times. And some Catholic friends of mine have likewise experiences. One friend, a Catholic female, went to her boyfriend’s Protestant church (why on earth she did this I don’t know) only to find it was a set-up. After everyone was seated, they all surrounded her, basically cornering her, and hammered the Catholic Church with lies & outright distiruons. Thank God she left & never looked back.
I could go on with many examples from my own life & the lives of friends. I’m not sure where you’re coming from, but your experiences are unique.
You don’t answer my specific point. “Let nothing be done without the bishop” doesn’t mean that congregations can’t be involved in managing their finances, and in helping to select their pastor (with the bishop agreeing on the final choice). It doesn’t say that the bishop has to rule them like a dictator and impose a priest on them without their having any say in the matter, or any knowledge of the priest’s background.
It must be that individual thing again. Tell me this, does one stand judged before God as an individual responsible for their individual deeds or are they judged by congregation? Will there be sections of Heaven reserved for Catholics and another (poorer?) section for Baptists? Did the apostles ever argue amongst themselves? Did they call one out for an action that was unseemly? And these were the men who walked with the Master! God speaks to individuals. They should listen to Him.
You’re dishonest and I doubt the Catholic church teaches taqqiya.
>>Give me a break. The only apostates are those Catholics who leave, according to Canon Law. Protestants who are born that way as I was are simply “invincibly ignorant” according to Catholic teaching. That means “Let God be the judge.”
A Catholic who culpably leaves the Catholic Church loses his/her salvation.
Vatican II’s document Lumen Gentium teaches:
14. This holy Council first of all turns its attention to the Catholic faithful. Basing itself on scripture and tradition, it teaches that the Church, a pilgrim now on earth, is necessary for salvation: the one Christ is mediator and the way of salvation; he is present to us in his body which is the Church. He himself explicitly asserted the necessity of faith and baptism (cf. Mk. 16:16; Jn. 3:5), and thereby affirmed at the same time the necessity of the Church which men enter through baptism as through a door. Hence they could not be saved who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, would refuse either to enter it, or to remain in it.
http://www.christusrex.org/www1/CDHN/v3.html
If you take my restating Catholic doctrine that refusal to belong to the Catholic Church is dishonest, then that is your problem.
Vatican II’s decree on Religious Liberty states:
This Vatican Council likewise professes its belief that it is upon the human conscience that these obligations fall and exert their binding force. The truth cannot impose itself except by virtue of its own truth, as it makes its entrance into the mind at once quietly and with power.
Religious freedom, in turn, which men demand as necessary to fulfill their duty to worship God, has to do with immunity from coercion in civil society. Therefore it leaves untouched traditional Catholic doctrine on the moral duty of men and societies toward the true religion and toward the one Church of Christ.
Vatican II’s Decree on Ecumenism states;
“11. The way and method in which the Catholic faith is expressed should never become an obstacle to dialogue with our brethren. It is, of course, essential that the doctrine should be clearly presented in its entirety. Nothing is so foreign to the spirit of ecumenism as a false irenicism, in which the purity of Catholic doctrine suffers loss and its genuine and certain meaning is clouded.”
I agree. Someone who is so anti-Evangelical/anti-Protestant yet pro-Mormon doesn’t quite pass the sniff test.
Keep talking troll boy we’re on to you.
Taking a stance Protestant Freepers don’t like=Being a troll.
Perhaps I was being a bit tongue-in-cheek with my second post.
A former Catholic is an apostate, not someone who was Protestant from birth and who refuses to convert.
rzman21 responds: >>Truth is not an individual thing. The Protestant idea that the subjective is the truth and that individuals create their own truth is why our culture is plagued by moral and religious relativism today. Protestantism=Liberalism.
I disagree with the contention that Protestants do not believe what they are taught: i.e., Protestant "use their brains" while Catholics do not. A lifetime in a variety of Protestant churches has convinced me that many of those in the pews believe what their pastors tell them. Much of the time this is fine, but we also need to exercise our own God-given discernment.
I also (somewhat) disagree with the contention that Protestantism = Liberalism. I recall what one of my old Jesuit professors said: "Liberalism is sterile" (i.e., being spiritually dead, it cannot "reproduce" - that is why liberal denominations unfailingly decline and die).
However, there is a Great Mystery here: the Holy Spirit often exercises a restraining effect that prevents - or at least delays - the effects of an experientially-based faith. Thus many churches in the "Protestant" tradition remain faithful to the Gospel when one would expect them to disintegrate. It is their simple faith and trust in their Savior along with a strong devotional life which mitigates whatever theological shortcomings they may have.
Eventually over time most Protestant denominations tend to become liberal - i.e., denying the fundamental doctrines and moral teachings of the Faith. But there is always a rejuvinating process going on, where new churches spring up that are teaching the true Gospel (if incomplete according to the Church).
You don’t answer my specific point. “Let nothing be done without the bishop” doesn’t mean that congregations can’t be involved in managing their finances, and in helping to select their pastor (with the bishop agreeing on the final choice). It doesn’t say that the bishop has to rule them like a dictator and impose a priest on them without their having any say in the matter, or any knowledge of the priest’s background.
>>I can see your point. I’ve seen things like this in the Orthodox Church, but it has been equally disastrous.
That tells me nothing. Rather I would ask “Do you believe that Jesus in God incarnate who died for your sins?” That would at least be a starting point to determining whether you were Christian and to what sect you belonged.
Is this an Apostasy thread or can anybody post?
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