Posted on 12/27/2011 8:24:19 PM PST by RnMomof7
That's exactly what they study. That's why they post all kinds of opinion pieces from the *church fathers* and so few from Scripture.
That's because they're trusting the Catholic church to save them, not Christ.
Their church teaches that salvation is only through it and they believe it.
Only ONE version uses *prelates* and it’s the Douay-Rheims Bible. The rest say *leaders*.
http://bible.cc/hebrews/13-24.htm
In the Greek, the word is.....
hégeomai: to lead, suppose
“Jesus said to them again, ‘Peace be with you. As the Father has sent me, even so I send you.’ And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and said to them, ‘Receive the Holy Spirit. If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained.’ “
How else can they all get along? Every sect is right, the Seventh Day dudes, the Christmas is Pagan dudes, the God the Mother dudettes - all of them in agreement - that Our Lord did NOT establish One Church, that Our Lord did NOT appoint Apostles and through them their successors. How else?
Who, in scripture, are referred to as bishops or elders.
Bishop – episkopos
1. an overseer
a. a man charged with the duty of seeing that things to be done by others are done rightly, any curator, guardian or superintendent
b. the superintendent, elder, or overseer of a Christian church
(http://www.searchgodsword.org/lex/grk/view.cgi?number=1985)
Elder – meizōn
1. greater, larger, elder, stronger
Priest – hiereus
Never used of church leadership in the New Testament.
That site is really convenient isn’t it? An eye opener at times. It’s no wonder the CC didn’t want Bibles into the hands of the lay.
I go with what Jesus said to the stewards at the Wedding Feast at Cana. "Do what she tells you". Jesus chose to begin his public ministry after being asked to do so by His Mother. He listened to her, which means he respected her judgement and decision. She knew who He was, and why He was here. There are many in this world who are led by her gentle ministrations to her Son. They don't worship her in the way they worship Jesus, though they do revere her, as He did.
Since all believers have the same Holy Spirit, then all believers can have the same ability to retain or remit other’s sins.
I love it. It is SOOOOO easy to use and find an accurate translation of a word.
I’ve learned some interesting stuff that way.
Jesus never told the servants to do what Mary told them. It was the other way around. Mary came to Him and told Him the problem, not even asking Him to do something about it, just telling Him what was wrong.
then SHE told the servants to do whatever HE told them to do.
John 2:1-5 On the third day there was a wedding at Cana in Galilee, and the mother of Jesus was there. 2 Jesus also was invited to the wedding with his disciples. 3 When the wine ran out, the mother of Jesus said to him, “They have no wine.” 4 And Jesus said to her, “Woman, what does this have to do with me? My hour has not yet come.” 5 His mother said to the servants, “Do whatever he tells you.”
And He never addresses her as anything other than *Woman*.
If He indeed started His public ministry at her request, He sure had a strange reaction to her request.... “Woman, what does this have to do with me? My hour has not yet come.”
Her timing was off then because He said that His hour had not yet come.
I have my own idea about what was going on there and I honestly don't think that Mary even knew what Jesus was going to do or how He was going to address the wine shortage.
Wrong
From Saint Clement of Rome’s first Epistle to Corinthians written sometime around 80 AD
No, Clement I is assumed to be written c. 80 AD. The earliest extant ms is from the 5th century IIRC. Knowing the Roman church's penchant for inclusions...
Chapter 44. The Ordinances of the Apostles, that There Might Be No Contention Respecting the Priestly Office.
Our apostles also knew, through our Lord Jesus Christ, that there would be strife on account of the office of the episcopate. For this reason, therefore, inasmuch as they had obtained a perfect fore-knowledge of this, they appointed those [ministers] already mentioned, and afterwards gave instructions, that when these should fall asleep, other approved men should succeed them in their ministry. We are of opinion, therefore, that those appointed by them, or afterwards by other eminent men, with the consent of the whole church, and who have blamelessly served the flock of Christ, in a humble, peaceable, and disinterested spirit, and have for a long time possessed the good opinion of all, cannot be justly dismissed from the ministry. For our sin will not be small, if we eject from the episcopate those who have blamelessly and holily fulfilled its duties. Blessed are those presbyters who, having finished their course before now, have obtained a fruitful and perfect departure [from this world]; for they have no fear lest any one deprive them of the place now appointed them. But we see that you have removed some men of excellent behaviour from the ministry, which they fulfilled blamelessly and with honour.
Why do you keep repeating this same argument and NEVER address the verses from St. Peter's epistle where the idea of the "priesthood of all believers" COMES FROM??? For you memory they are:
I Peter 2:5 you also, like living stones, are being built into a spiritual house to be a holy priesthood, offering spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ.
I Peter 2:9 But you are a chosen people, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, God’s special possession, that you may declare the praises of him who called you out of darkness into his wonderful light.
Will you at least once address what Peter meant under inspiration of the Holy Spirit if not the priesthood of ALL believers? Like I have said numerous times already, nobody would be talking about it if it wasn't taught in Scripture. It seems your problem is with God, NOT "Proddys".
If someone doesn't want to answer your question about the church they attend, then quit hounding them. I've seen Metmom reply specifically many times that where she attends church is something she doesn't want to disclose and she has legitimate reasons. She has not once refused to disclose what she believes about any doctrine, and on a forum that discussed issues of doctrine, that should be all that is necessary. Besides, Narses, you can hardly blame someone for holding back when you, before you even know what denomination, call it a heretical sect, a cult, or all kinds of UN-Christian and UN-loving names. You aren't exactly relaying any honest intentions by asking now, are you?
Never ceases to amaze me the lengths some go to in attempting to squeeze and manipulate scripture into what they want it to say, rather than “accept” the truth of what it does say.
Once again evidencing that their belief system is based on what their leadership tells them first and foremost... and THEN they abuse scripture while trying to harmonize it with those teachings after the fact.......
As someone once said...”It is possible to derive mental stimulation from the Bible and nothing else.”
James Buchanan, a nineteenth century Scottish theologian, says,......” There can be no doubt that the Bible, like any other book, may convey much instruction to an ‘unrenewed man’. .... When it is affirmed that a natural man cannot know the things of God, it is not implied that the Bible is unintelligibly written, or that he cannot understand the sense and meaning of scriptural propositions, so as to be able to give a rational account of them..... He may investigate the literal meaning of Scripture, and may attach a definite idea to many of its statements—may be able to see their mutual relations—to reason upon them,.. and even to expound them;... and yet in the scriptural sense, he may be in darkness notwithstanding.”
Edwin Palmer observes,..... “In Jesus’ parable of the rich man and Lazarus, what the rich man’s brothers needed for their conversion was not more knowledge or a proof by a man rising from the dead. No, they had Moses and the prophets.... What they needed was a spiritual awakening and illumination so they could believe what was already in the Bible.”
The scribes and Pharisees believed in the literal truth of the Hebrew Scriptures ..but still they rejected the Lord of Glory and had Him crucified.
The Holy Spirit enlightens a person, not by giving an added content of knowledge,... but by mysteriously operating on his heart so that he can see the revelation ‘already given’.
The image used in Scripture is of removing a veil. In 2 Corinthians 3:15 Paul says of the unbelieving Jews,..... “But even to this day, when Moses is read, a veil lies on their heart.”.... He continues, ....“Nevertheless, when one turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away” (2 Cor. 3:16).
The truth was there before them all the time, only they were prevented from seeing it.
Exerts from...
http://www.mountainretreatorg.net/articles/holy_illum.shtml
Amen! Thank you. Who-oah!
Jude 1:10 But these men blaspheme whatever things they know not: and what things soever they naturally know, like dumb beasts, in these they are corrupted. Jude 1:11 Woe unto them! For they have gone in the way of Cain: and after the error of Balaam they have for reward poured out themselves and have perished in the contradiction of Core.
Are you saying that these verse you post speak against the heresy of "the priesthood of all believers"???
And just how do you get that out of those verses? They say NOTHING about the priesthood of the believer.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.