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To: metmom

Never ceases to amaze me the lengths some go to in attempting to squeeze and manipulate scripture into what they want it to say, rather than “accept” the truth of what it does say.

Once again evidencing that their belief system is based on what their leadership tells them first and foremost... and THEN they abuse scripture while trying to harmonize it with those teachings after the fact.......

As someone once said...”It is possible to derive mental stimulation from the Bible and nothing else.”

James Buchanan, a nineteenth century Scottish theologian, says,......” There can be no doubt that the Bible, like any other book, may convey much instruction to an ‘unrenewed man’. .... When it is affirmed that a natural man cannot know the things of God, it is not implied that the Bible is unintelligibly written, or that he cannot understand the sense and meaning of scriptural propositions, so as to be able to give a rational account of them..... He may investigate the literal meaning of Scripture, and may attach a definite idea to many of its statements—may be able to see their mutual relations—to reason upon them,.. and even to expound them;... and yet in the scriptural sense, he may be in darkness notwithstanding.”

Edwin Palmer observes,..... “In Jesus’ parable of the rich man and Lazarus, what the rich man’s brothers needed for their conversion was not more knowledge or a proof by a man rising from the dead. No, they had Moses and the prophets.... What they needed was a spiritual awakening and illumination so they could believe what was already in the Bible.”

The scribes and Pharisees believed in the literal truth of the Hebrew Scriptures ..but still they rejected the Lord of Glory and had Him crucified.

The Holy Spirit enlightens a person, not by giving an added content of knowledge,... but by mysteriously operating on his heart so that he can see the revelation ‘already given’.

The image used in Scripture is of removing a veil. In 2 Corinthians 3:15 Paul says of the unbelieving Jews,..... “But even to this day, when Moses is read, a veil lies on their heart.”.... He continues, ....“Nevertheless, when one turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away” (2 Cor. 3:16).

The truth was there before them all the time, only they were prevented from seeing it.

Exerts from...

http://www.mountainretreatorg.net/articles/holy_illum.shtml


577 posted on 01/01/2012 8:08:45 PM PST by caww
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To: caww

578 posted on 01/01/2012 8:10:45 PM PST by narses
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To: caww

That’s excellent. Great find.

We really don’t need new revelation. We have enough to keep us busy for a long time simply with what God has already given.

That’s a very good point to keep in mind when dealing with the likes of the New Apostolic Movement that appear to be promoting that kind of thing.

I can’t tell you how many Pentecostal leaning Christians I know are big on this new thing of someone has a *word* from God for us.


583 posted on 01/01/2012 8:29:22 PM PST by metmom (For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore & do not submit again to a yoke of slavery)
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To: caww
The image used in Scripture is of removing a veil. In 2 Corinthians 3:15 Paul says of the unbelieving Jews,..... “But even to this day, when Moses is read, a veil lies on their heart.”.... He continues, ....“Nevertheless, when one turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away” (2 Cor. 3:16).

I think we see evidence of this exact same "heart veil" on this forum just about every day.

Happy New Year!

585 posted on 01/01/2012 8:53:44 PM PST by boatbums (Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us. Titus 3:5)
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To: caww; metmom

So who’s “squeez[ing] and manipulat[ing]” the scripture? The ones who follow and conform to the teachers and overseers established by the apostles, or the ones who invent new interpretations? I’ll give you a hint: When Luther invented the doctrines of sola fides, sola scriptura, and rejected purgatory and atonement, the Church said, “Here, in the bible, is where we find our doctrines, and here, in the bible, is where your false doctrines are refuted.” And Luther rejected those books of the bible, Revelations, 2-3 John, Hebrews, 1-2 Macabees, Wisdom, Sirach, 1-2 Peter and James.

Only when later Protestants were able to “squeeze and manipulate” certain of those books into conforming with Protestant doctrines were those certain books returned to their canon. The ones they couldn’t squeeze and manipulate were left out to this day.


620 posted on 01/02/2012 2:13:11 PM PST by dangus
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