Posted on 12/27/2011 8:24:19 PM PST by RnMomof7
Rome, Italy, Dec 8, 2011 / 04:28 pm (CNA/EWTN News).- Pope Benedict XVI reflected on the biblical description of a “woman clothed with the sun” in his remarks at Rome's Spanish Steps on the 2011 Feast of the Immaculate Conception.
“What is the meaning of this image? It represents the Church and Our Lady at the same time,” the Pope told the crowd assembled before the nearby statue commemorating the 1854 definition of Mary's Immaculate Conception. “Before all, the 'woman' of the apocalypse is Mary herself.”
The 12th chapter of the Biblical Apocalypse – also known as the Book of Revelation – describes the glorification and persecution of “a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet, and on her head a crown of twelve stars.”
Though not named, this woman is described as the mother of the Messiah. In poetic language akin to the Bible's other prophetic books, Saint John says she faced the threat of “a huge red dragon, with seven heads and ten horns,” and “fled into the desert where she had a place prepared by God.”
Pope Benedict, offering white roses in his traditional yearly act of Marian veneration, gave listeners his insight into the connection between the Virgin Mary and the Church – portrayed in the Apocalypse through the single image of the sun-clad woman.
“She appears 'clothed in sunlight,' that is, clothed in God,” observed the Pope. “The Virgin Mary is in fact completely surrounded by the light of God and lives in God … The 'Immaculate One' reflects with all of her person the light of the 'sun' which is God.”
“Besides representing Our Lady, this sign personifies the Church, the Christian community of all times,” he continued.
The Church, he explained, is “pregnant, in the sense that she carries Christ” and “must give birth to him to the world.”
“This is the labor of the pilgrim Church on earth, that in the midst of the consolations of God and the persecutions of the world, she must bring Christ to men.”
Because the Church continues to bring Jesus into the world, Pope Benedict said, it “finds opposition in a ferocious adversary,” symbolized in scripture by the “dragon” that has “tried in vain to devour Jesus,” and now “directs his attacks against the woman – the Church – in the desert of the world.”
“But in every age the Church is supported by the light and the strength of God,” the Pope said. “She is nurtured in the desert with the bread of his word and the Holy Eucharist.”
“And in this way, in every tribulation, through all of the trials that she finds in the course of the ages and in the different parts of the world, the Church suffers persecution, but comes out the victor.”
Pope Benedict said the Church should not fear persecution, which is bound to arise, but will be defeated.
“The only pitfall of which the Church can and must be afraid is the sin of her members,” he warned, highlighting the key difference between the Church and the woman who is its prototype.
“While in fact Mary is immaculate – free from every stain of sin – the Church is holy, but at the same time marked by our sins.”
While sinless herself, Mary remains in solidarity with the Church struggling against sin.
“That is why the people of God, pilgrims in time, turn to their heavenly mother and ask for her help,” explained Pope Benedict.
He stressed the world's need for the hope brought by the “woman clothed with the sun” – “especially in this difficult moment for Italy, for Europe and for different parts of the world.”
“May Mary help us to see that there is a light beyond the veil of fog that appears to envelop reality,” he declared.
“For this also we, especially on this day, never cease to ask with filial trust for her help: 'O Mary, conceived without sin, pray for us who have recourse to you.'”
With that information and knowledge of the person's general geographic location, it would be quite easy for someone to identify the FReeper with a little determined sleuthing.
What with the crazies out surfing the internet, I don't blame anyone for not wanting to compromise their screen name to that extent.
And again, for about the bazillionth time, our identity is in Christ. I am a follower of HIM, not of Luther, Wesley, Calvin, I don't identify as Baptist, Presbyterian, Methodist, AoG, independent, whatever, because neither the men nor the churches save me.
The label they bear means nothing to God and nothing to me. I've been to services in a wide variety of churches and denominations and have worshiped God in them and had a great time meeting fellow Christ followers.
My fidelity it to Jesus and His word. That's the only answer you or any other Catholic is going to get from me about my beliefs.
Live with it.
“...I’ve been to services in a wide variety of churches and denominations...”
So anything is OK EXCEPT a Catholic Church, right?
“”There was no priests in the new church, it was about 300 AD before the first priesthood appeared.””
Wrong
From Saint Clement of Rome’s first Epistle to Corinthians written sometime around 80 AD
http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/1010.htm
Chapter 44. The Ordinances of the Apostles, that There Might Be No Contention Respecting the Priestly Office.
You still don't get it??? It's not about a religion...It's about a relationship...
Are there Christians in the Catholic religion??? Probably...
Is the Catholic religion the 'church'??? Of course not...
The ones I’ve been to.
But then again, almost everything has a website these days to peruse first so I’ve avoided the Episcopalian and liberal mainline ones.
FWIW, I could go into a Catholic church for whatever reason and still be able to worship God.
There are believers in every denomination and there are unbelievers in every denomination.
That’s because the denomination isn’t what saves. It’s just a local assembly place where people, believers or not, can meet together for worship and fellowship.
It’s got to have a name so that people can at least know which church everyone is talking about. Everything else has a name for identification purposes; schools, hospitals, businesses, etc.
So Our Lord really doesn’t care where, or maybe in IF we go to a Church, right? I can wander in and out of this congregation and that, sometimes worshipping where God the “Mother” is celebrated (as in some Episcopal chapels in my area) and others where the Trinity is denied, where Christmas and Easter are decried as PAGAN — all of that is just Okey-Dokey? What a very odd reading of what Our Lord and His Apostles left us.
“It’s got to have a name so that people can at least know which church everyone is talking about.”
Exactly!
” Everything else has a name for identification purposes; schools, hospitals, businesses, etc. “
Well, no. The odd collection of anti-Catholic screechers, the few, the ufo believers, the JW’s and others here refuse any identification. Very odd that.
“It’s just a local assembly place where people, believers or not, can meet together for worship and fellowship.”
In a REAL Church it is much more. It is a House of God, and His Son is Present in the Tabernacle. The Sacraments are present, the Priest is available and it is a REAL Church, not just another meeting place - rather a House of God.
Now the question is will RnMomof7 acknowledge that she is wrong? Any bets?
Thank you, caww. I know - it was one of the first things I encountered when I first came to the RF threads. It wasn’t hard to see back then some weren’t about Truth but labeling - Alinsky tactic.
They can’t handle someone belonging to God alone as a child of God does. For they ‘must’ have allegiance to man somewhere because that’s all they are taught. Orphans with many ‘self proclaimed’ fathers are desperate for what we have - belonging to ONE father who desires for us to go to HIM alone because He loves us so much and gives us the assurance now we will live with Him for eternity. And are told whatever we ask Our Father for, in JESUS name, we shall receive it according to His Word. God’s children as blessed, blessed, blessed! There are many jealous children peering over the fence at us as they are being man handled and held hostage.
John 10:28,29 “I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one can snatch them out of My hand. My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of My Father’s hand.
“But you are A CHOSEN RACE, A royal PRIESTHOOD, A HOLY NATION, A PEOPLE FOR God’s OWN POSSESSION, so that you may proclaim the excellencies of Him who has called you out of darkness into His marvelous light” 1 Peter 2:9
Praise God! God’s Word IS The Final Authority for His children, His Church.
It is an important point of nomenclature, the actual point which has been in discussion, being that presbyter, and it's associated use and meaning in context of how it shown to be used and understood in Apostolic times, is quite different from the role of a sacerdotal priesthood.
Clement is not a savior for you in this, please ratchet the hatreds of other Christians down. Thank you.
The real church is the body of believers in Christ. It's made of people, not brick and mortar and stone. The building in which they meet may be called a church, for lack of a better term, but that is not the church as God identifies it.
I agree with you post completely. The attempts by Catholics to put everyone in some box is certainly not to just “learn”.
“Not so strange they want more because Jesus isn’t enough for them either, they question how could it be enough for you.”
PERIOD. Should be your tagline. AMEN!
No. It's most definitely to label and judge, as we have seen many times on the RF already.
If they wanted to learn, they could research it on the web or ask questions about whatever it is that they want to know. The information is out there.
What they want to know is not general information about different theology but personal information about individuals.
AMEN, mm. As much as it pains those who seek pigeons for their holes, they are seeking in vain. I belong to the Church the Body of Christ. As do you and all who are saved by the finished work of Christ. AMEN.
Now WHY does this particular Scripture come to mind...
It gets better..
"But we will not boast of things without measure, but according to the measure of the rule which God hath distributed to us..." v. 15. And what would that measure of the rule which God hath distributed to us be?
..."For we are come as far as to you also in PREACHING THE GOSPEL OF CHRIST.." v. 14.
"But he that glorieth, let him glory in the Lord." v. 17.
There are those who are so busy comparing themselves to each other, they forget what their rule of measure God has given to them...PREACHING THE GOSPEL OF CHRIST. IF they even know what the Gospel of Christ is. And I doubt that the ones who most want to compare and pigeon hole people actually know what the Gospel is. Or care, particularly. All they want is to make sure they are feeling puffed up in their vanity of works and patting themselves on the back for their "sufferings" for the Lord.
Matthew 28:18-20 18 And Jesus came and said to them, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19 Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you. And behold, I am with you always, to the end of the age.”
2 Corinthians 5:18-21 18 All this is from God, who through Christ reconciled us to himself and gave us the ministry of reconciliation; 19 that is, in Christ God was reconciling the world to himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and entrusting to us the message of reconciliation. 20 Therefore, we are ambassadors for Christ, God making his appeal through us. We implore you on behalf of Christ, be reconciled to God. 21 For our sake he made him to be sin who knew no sin, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.
And I will not be harassed, nagged, pestered, badgered, tricked, provoked, or manipulated into giving out personal information that would compromise my screen name.
It's funny, the Pharisees kept nagging Jesus about who he was and even when He told them, it wasn't good enough for them. They blew a gasket because He said He was God, just like the Catholics blow a gasket when we say we are in Christ, we have Christ in us, the hope of glory.
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