[Colofornian]

From the article: I believe the cause of the problem is medicine we keep taking and that the underlying and resulting problem we face is credibility. It’s the milk before meat approach itself that undermines Mormon credibility...Let’s consider just one of 21 Questions Answered About Mormon Faith that the Fox News prepared in conjunction with the LDS church’s PR folks: Q: Does the Mormon Church believe its followers can become “gods and goddesses” after death? A: We believe that the apostle Peter’s biblical reference to partaking of the divine nature and the apostle Paul’s reference to being ‘joint heirs with Christ’ reflect the intent that children of God should strive to emulate their Heavenly Father in every way. Throughout the eternities, Mormons believe, they will reverence and worship God the Father and Jesus Christ. The goal is not to equal them or to achieve parity with them but to imitate and someday acquire their perfect goodness, love and other divine attributes. [Back to article]: Whachama-come again? This is a hefty dose of the medicine of de-emphasizing weird beliefs when speaking to non-Mormons. Can you argue that this bizarre answer is “not false”? Of course! And whenever anyone argues that any one of these medicinal answers is false, apologetic Mormons across the blogosphere will leap into heroic action in the answer’s defense. And that is the problem! The problem is not whether the medicinal answers can be argued to be “not-false.” The problem is that these answers are not open and forthright, and that they thus lack credbility.

This Mormon author says that Mormons trying to avoid the "weird" tag do too many verbal and keyboard cartwheels...to the point that Mormons have lost credibility in the public square...this is especially true on the 'net...

[altsehastiin]

You know, colofornian, I never paid much attention to the mormonism before I started reading your posts. But you’ve really opened my eyes with all your helpful information about mormonism. I think I’ll check them out - seems like there are some compelling ideas in the LDS church, and you really can’t argue with their results. After all, mormons as a people seem to be incredibly happy, prosperous and well-adjusted.

Thanks again for turning me on to mormonism.

[svcw]

P M

[Fiji Hill]

If You Could Hie to Kolob--The Mormon Tabernacle Choir.

[edpc]

Credibility ultimately comes down to whether you believe Joseph Smith was who he claimed to be.

I don't.

Beyond that, the "weird" stuff is superfluous.

[Jack Hydrazine]

Kolob = Dog. How?

Take the consonants K-L-B and look at the Semitic languages for similarities.

Arabic has the word, ‘kalb’ which uses the same consonants, which means ‘dog.’ The worst insult you can throw at a Muzzie is to say, “Ya kalb!” which means “You dog!” because dogs are considered unclean in Islam.

Hebrew has the same word, “kelev.” The ‘b’ sound is the plosive form of the ‘v’ sound.

When dogs die they don’t go to heaven, but instead, go to Planet Kolob!

[DannyTN]

LOL So this Mormon author believes it’s not the weird Mormon beliefs, but that Mormon’s just need to stand behind their weird beliefs and be more open and forthright about them.

Here’s a clue: It’s both!

The weird Mormon beliefs fail because Joseph Smith fails the test of a prophet that Moses laid out. And the weird Mormon beliefs are contradictory to what is in Old and New Testament scripture.

We have no more reason to accept Joseph Smith as a prophet with his condemnation of prior scripture as being “full of errors and omissions” and his new scriptures , than we have to accept Mohammad as a prophet with his similar condemnation and new scriptures.

Mormon’s do indeed lack credibility. Their “We are Christians too” is proclaimed simultaneously with Joseph Smith’s vision that all existing Christian denominations were abominations. Mormon’s careful use of “highly nuanced” language to try to trick Christians into thinking that Mormon’s really are very similar, when Mormon missionary’s know full well the difference in meaning when they use those terms, is no difference than open lying.

[dragonblustar]

To sum up, Mormons should embrace their "weirdness" otherwise get use to being called liars, ( or just embarrassed about their beliefs which points to a lack of true faith..?)

De-emphasize (or eliminate) weird beliefs. Explain Mormonism using highly-nuanced language, which we (as Mormons) believe will satisfy non-Mormon ears (“milk before meat”).

Cult, cult, cult.

[InterceptPoint]

I'm not going to take a position on Mormon vs. traditional Christian beliefs. That's a pretty personal thing.

But the politics are what this forum is all about. And the Mormonism of Romney is, IMHO, a huge burden that will be difficult for him to overcome in this primary election but much more so in a general election.

My rationale is simple: I don't think most Americans really know much about Mormonism's beliefs. They understand that Mormons are generally speaking very good people who take care of themselves without a lot help from society.

But they are learning about Joseph Smith and some of the core Mormon beliefs now and it is hurting Romney in his run for the nomination. Assuming he wins that nomination is there any doubt that the MSM would be giving us daily lessons and not very favorable daily lessons in Mormonism. Their goal: split off the Evangelical vote, get them to stay home and win the election for Obama.

Is there any doubt about this? I don't think so. Obama wold be above the fray and the MSM would carry the water.

[TPOOH]

Mormons.....the people who march through neighborhoods two by two telling people their religion is "apostate." But of course we should be "tolerant."

[Elsie]

It’s that we lack credibility.

Uh...

False prophets will tend to cause that problem.

[Elsie]

We believe that the apostle Peter’s biblical reference to partaking of the divine nature and the apostle Paul’s reference to being ‘joint heirs with Christ’ reflect the intent that children of God should strive to emulate their Heavenly Father in every way.

Why don't they QUOTE their OWN 'scrfipture'??

---

The Doctrine and Covenants

 

Section 132

Revelation given through Joseph Smith the Prophet, at Nauvoo, Illinois, recorded 12 July 1843, relating to the new and everlasting covenant, including the eternity of the marriage covenant, and also the plurality of wives (see History of the Church, 5:501–7). Although the revelation was recorded in 1843, it is evident from the historical records that the doctrines and principles involved in this revelation had been known by the Prophet since 1831.

1–6, Exaltation is gained through the new and everlasting covenant; 7–14, The terms and conditions of that covenant are set forth; 15–20, Celestial marriage and a continuation of the family unit enable men to become gods; 21–25, The strait and narrow way leads to eternal lives; 26–27, The law is given relative to blasphemy against the Holy Ghost; 28–39, Promises of eternal increase and exaltation are made to prophets and Saints in all ages; 40–47, Joseph Smith is given the power to bind and seal on earth and in heaven; 48–50, The Lord seals upon him his exaltation; 51–57, Emma Smith is counseled to be faithful and true; 58–66, Laws governing the plurality of wives are set forth.

 

---

 

 16Therefore, when they are out of the world they neither marry nor are given in ^amarriage; but are appointed angels in ^bheaven, which angels are ministering ^cservants, to minister for those who are worthy of a far more, and an exceeding, and an eternal weight of glory.

 17For these angels did not abide my law; therefore, they cannot be enlarged, but remain separately and singly, without exaltation, in their saved condition, to all eternity; and from henceforth are not gods, but are ^aangels of God forever and ever.

 18And again, verily I say unto you, if a man marry a wife, and make a covenant with her for time and for all eternity, if that ^acovenant is not by me or by my word, which is my law, and is not sealed by the Holy Spirit of promise, through him whom I have anointed and appointed unto this power, then it is not valid neither of force when they are out of the world, because they are not joined by me, saith the Lord, neither by my word; when they are out of the world it cannot be received there, because the angels and the gods are appointed there, by whom they cannot pass; they cannot, therefore, inherit my glory; for my house is a house of order, saith the Lord God.

 19And again, verily I say unto you, if a man ^amarry a wife by my word, which is my law, and by the new and ^beverlasting covenant, and it is ^csealed unto them by the Holy Spirit of ^dpromise, by him who is anointed, unto whom I have appointed this power and the ^ekeys of this priesthood; and it shall be said unto them—Ye shall come forth in the first resurrection; and if it be after the first resurrection, in the next resurrection; and shall inherit ^fthrones, kingdoms, principalities, and powers, dominions, all heights and depths—then shall it be written in the Lamb’s ^gBook of Life, that he shall commit no ^hmurder whereby to shed innocent ⁱblood, and if ye abide in my covenant, and commit no murder whereby to shed innocent blood, it shall be done unto them in all things whatsoever my servant hath put upon them, in time, and through all eternity; and shall be of full force when they are out of the world; and they shall pass by the angels, and the gods, which are set there, to their ^jexaltation and glory in all things, as hath been sealed upon their heads, which glory shall be a fulness and a continuation of the ^kseeds forever and ever.

 20 Then shall they be gods, because they have no end; therefore shall they be from ^aeverlasting to everlasting, because they continue; then shall they be above all, because all things are subject unto them. Then shall they be ^bgods, because they have ^call power, and the angels are subject unto them.

 21Verily, verily, I say unto you, except ye abide my ^alaw ye cannot attain to this glory.

 22For ^astrait is the gate, and narrow the ^bway that leadeth unto the exaltation and continuation of the ^clives, and few there be that find it, because ye receive me not in the world neither do ye know me.

 23But if ye receive me in the world, then shall ye know me, and shall receive your exaltation; that ^awhere I am ye shall be also.

 24This is ^aeternal lives—to ^bknow the only wise and true God, and Jesus Christ, whom he hath ^csent. I am he. Receive ye, therefore, my law.

 25^aBroad is the gate, and wide the way that leadeth to the ^bdeaths; and many there are that go in thereat, because they ^creceive me not, neither do they abide in my law.

[Elsie]

Why don't they QUOTE their OWN 'scripture'??

And sing their own hymns?

---

(click)

Praise to the Man!

 

 

 

Praise to the man who communed with Jehovah!
Jesus annointed that Prophet and Seer.
Blessed to open the last dispensation,
Kings shall extol him, and nations revere.

Chorus
Hail to the Prophet, ascended to heaven!
Traitors and tyrants now fight him in vain.
Mingling with Gods, he can plan for his brethren;
Death cannot conquer the hero again.

Praise to his mem'ry, he died as a martyr;
Honored and blest be his ever great name!
Long shall his blood, which was shed by assasins,
Plead unto heav'n while the earth lauds his fame.

Chorus
Hail to the Prophet, ascended to heaven!
Traitors and tyrants now fight him in vain.
Mingling with Gods, he can plan for his brethren;
Death cannot conquer the hero again.

Great is his glory and endless his priesthood.
Ever and ever the keys he will hold.
Faithful and true he will enter his kingdom,
Crowned in the midst of the prophets of old.

Chorus
Hail to the Prophet, ascended to heaven!
Traitors and tyrants now fight him in vain.
Mingling with Gods, he can plan for his brethren;
Death cannot conquer the hero again.

Sacrifice brings forth the blessings of heaven;
Earth must atone for the blood of that man.
Wake up the world for the conflict of justice.
Millions shall know 'Brother Joseph' again.

Chorus
Hail to the Prophet, ascended to heaven!
Traitors and tyrants now fight him in vain.
Mingling with Gods, he can plan for his brethren;
Death cannot conquer the hero again.

[Elsie]

Throughout the eternities, Mormons believe, they will reverence and worship God the Father and Jesus Christ.

Indeed!e MORMONs are the ONLY folks with ONE god that happens to have TWO phyiscal bodies!

--MormonDude(No; I do NOT know why the Holy Ghost hasn't attained one yet...)

[Elsie]

Throughout the eternities, Mormons believe, they will reverence and worship God the Father and Jesus Christ.

Indeed!

We MORMONs are the ONLY folks with ONE god that happens to have TWO phyiscal bodies!

--MormonDude(No; I do NOT know why the Holy Ghost hasn't attained one yet...)

[Guyin4Os]

The takeaway could be termed "Embrace your inner weirdness."

Another could be "Embrace the Disgrace."

[Tennessee Nana]

A little weirdness wont lead anyone into Hell...

and the author is right about the lack of credibilty...

See how fair and objective I can be ???

BUT

Mormonism is not merely weird...

Its blasphemy and unBiblical...

Mormonism is not Christianity...

[Tennessee Nana]

See how fair and objective I can be ???
_______________________________________

Yes I must remember that I was at least once...

for those times I get bashed by the anti-Christians for not being etc...

Meanwhile

still

Mormonism is not Christianity...

[Busywhiskers]

“The real problem Mormons face is not that we have weirdness. It’s that we lack credibility.”

Actually the problem is both. Many of their beliefs are factually and historically incorrect and many are theologically abhorrent to orthodox Christianity, accordingly they are accurately described as “non-Christian”. They have no credibility because they attempt to conceal their beliefs behind a vale of deceit. It is sort of like President Obama portraying himself as fiscally responsible.

[cloudmountain]

My read:
Thanks to the Internet Mormonism will die a natural death. There is just too much information there to ignore.
Young people will quietly leave their church because they won't be able to ignore all the information that shows their faith as absurd as the rest of the planet thinks it is.
Since their young people are their future, the Mormons will be left with an elderly and dying-out population, isolated, bitter and not understanding "what went wrong."

It reminds me of the CLOSED world of communism that failed to sustain belief with the glaring light of ANY OTHER information. The Chinese have their military to keep the lid on but the Mormon Church can only wave "byebye" to the flood of refugees from an "ism" started by a prolifigate who was one of the greatest con artists and con men of the 19th century.

Wait until the masses of Hindus get access to the rest of the world...yes, beyond their gawd-awful movies, TV programs and ragnewspapersmagazines. Their 330 million gods won't save Hinduism from Christian evalization. It's impossible to resist the Way, the Truth and the Life.

God's plan is, without doubt, interesting.

As I said, my read.

[rzman21]

I’ll stick to Battlestar Galactica. Mormonism is science fiction.