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Tis the season for Smithmas; Whom do you worship? [Mormon Merry Smithmas]
Life After Ministry: Leading Mormons to the REAL Jesus Christ ^ | April 17, 2011 [original: December 2008] | Michelle Grim

Posted on 12/06/2011 6:06:40 AM PST by Colofornian

‘TIS THE SEASON for Smithmas

(Originally posted in December 2008)

Here we are with another Thanksgiving and Christmas season upon us! I love this time of year for the changing colors of the trees, the air smells like the season’s cold is getting ready to lay itself down upon us, and of course for the food. Yum!

Alas, I would be remiss if I were to go about my day in this glorious time without giving my favorite reason…Jesus!

While December 25th may not be the actual date of Jesus’ birth, it serves as a great reminder for us as to why we celebrate to begin with!

I was writing an article a few weeks ago when I noticed a pattern of sorts in my copy of the Gospelink Program I use for research on Mormonism. It has a section where you can store your favorite quotes and scriptures for easy access. Skimming through the file for a specific quote, I noticed how many entries I had placed in this folder for references in regards to Joseph Smith and the homage members pay to him.

I have written many times on the importance of Smith’s claims and the impact they have upon the members of the Church. I could write a book on the many letters we receive and how many times I’ve been told that they do not worship Joseph Smith, but as I’ve said before and will say again…you be the judge and read what they say! Below are a mere handful of examples of what they think of ol’ Joe.

1. Choice seer 9. Voice crying/wilderness 17. People studied at feet of
2. Joseph and God partners 10. Has more to boast of 18. Smith's greatness
3. Brings purpose to life 11. Is meek and lowly 19. Gospel according to Joe
4. Did more than anyone 12. Is needed, foreordained 20. Superior intelligence
5. Is god to all 13. Not always a prophet 21. Praise to the man
6. Helped save world 14.Not armed 22. Knowledge of God from
7. Holds keys of authority 15. Related to Jesus 23. Greater than Isaiah
8. Was a Mason 16. Smith's consent needed 24. Is both Jew and Gentile

For the sake of brevity, I will be posting only the vital parts of the actual document, but will include the exact location for the reader to do further investigation. If you cannot find the documentation in your own books or library you can read them at www.lds.org for verification. As always, I strongly encourage each member of the Church to read the actual document for proof as I have nothing to hide.

1. Joseph Smith: The Choice Seer, epilogue: “Ours is the song of praise to the man ordained from eternity past to part the veil and open the heavens, for through him the fulness of truth and the fulness of priesthood powers have come to earth again.” – Joseph Fielding McConkie.

2. Handbook of the Restoration [pamphlets], pg. 50; “…God chose this man. He spoke through him. The virgin, unsophisticated mind of the youth was a fertile field for the planting of spiritual seeds. They grew and matured into a perfect faith that brought Joseph into partnership with God. When that came to be, there was nothing unattainable, for as we are told of old, one man and God are a majority.” – Various Authors

3. Handbook of the Restoration [pamphlets], pg. 50-1; “If any man has received in his heart the witness of the divine truth embraced in the contributions of the Prophet Joseph, I charge him to be true,-true to his testimony, true to the Prophet, the founder, true to the cause… If any man has not received this witness, I appeal for his thoughtful, prayerful, sympathetic consideration. I offer to him…assurance that if he will receive and apply the teachings of Joseph Smith he will be made happy. Doubt and uncertainty will leave him…” – Various Authors

4. Discourses of the Prophet Joseph Smith, pgs. 22-3; “…He opened up communication with the heavens in his youth. He brought forth the Book of Mormon, which contains the fullness of the Gospel… In a word, he did more in from 14 to 20 years for the salvation of man than any other man save Jesus only, that ever lived. (JD 24:14-15.).” – Comment by Joseph F. Smith. Also D&C 135.

5. Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, pg. 363; “…God made Aaron to be the mouthpiece for the children of Israel, and He will make me be god to you in His stead, and the Elders to be mouth for me; and if you don’t like it, you must lump it. I have been giving Elder Adams instruction in some principles to speak to you, and if he makes a mistake, I will get up and correct him. (April 8, 1844.).”

6. The Doctrine and Covenants Speaks, 2:456; “One of Joseph Smith’s contributions to the salvation of men in this world was the bringing forth of “. . . the Book of Mormon, which he translated by the gift and power of God. . . . ” (D&C 135:3.).”

7. Doctrines of Salvation 1:192; “ONLY JOSEPH SMITH FULFILS ANCIENT PROMISES. Joseph Smith declared that he, with Oliver Cowdery, his companion, received the keys of the gathering of Israel. No one else ever claimed to have had them revealed to him. If Joseph Smith did not receive them, then someone must be empowered with this authority before the coming of the Lord…Malachi has said that the Lord would send Elijah before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the Lord. The Prophet Joseph Smith said he (Elijah) came to him and Oliver Cowdery with the keys of that power. If he did not, and they have told a falsehood….”

8. Answers: Straightforward Answers to Tough Gospel Questions, pgs. 48-9; “Joseph Smith and many of the leading brethren of that day were Masons. The question implies that there is something secret or sinister in their Masonic affiliation. This was hardly the case. The Saints who built Nauvoo built a Masonic lodge there. It is among the buildings that have been restored in Nauvoo, and visitors are encouraged to visit it…It is not inconceivable that the Prophet, sensing something about the ancient roots of Masonry, inquired of the Lord about it. In that sense it may have been one of the influences that prepared the way for the revelations that restored the ceremonies of the temple…The idea that the kind of faith and courage common to our pioneer forebears grew out of rituals copied from a fraternal organization is ludicrous.”

9. Discourses of the Prophet Joseph Smith, pg. 200; “In relation to the power over the minds of mankind which I hold, I would say, It is in consequence of the power of truth in the doctrines which I have been an instrument in the hands of God of presenting unto them, and not because of any compulsion on my part…Why do not my enemies strike a blow at the doctrine? They cannot do it: it is truth, and I defy all men to upset it. I am the voice of one crying in the wilderness, “Repent ye of your sins and prepare the way for the coming of the Son of Man…”

10. Discourses of the Prophet Joseph Smith, pg. 31; “The Prophet’s Effectiveness – I have more to boast of than ever any man had. I am the only man that has ever been able to keep a whole church together since the days of Adam. A large majority of the whole have stood by me. Neither Paul, John, Peter, nor Jesus ever did it. I boast that no man ever did such a work as I. The followers of Jesus ran away from Him; but the Latter-day Saints never ran away from me yet. (HC 6:408-9.)”

11. History of the Church 5:218; “Some of the company thought I was not a very meek Prophet; so I told them: “I am meek and lowly in heart,” and will personify Jesus for a moment, to illustrate the principle, and cried out with a loud voice, “Woe unto you, ye doctors; woe unto you, ye lawyers; woe unto you, ye scribes, Pharisees, and hypocrites!” &c. But you cannot find the place where I ever went that I found fault with their food, their drink, their house, their lodgings; no, never; and this is what is meant by the meekness and lowliness of Jesus.”

12. Doctrines of Salvation 1:184; “Joseph Smith was chosen to stand at the head of the work of the Lord in the last days, and his work was assigned to him through the fore-knowledge of our Eternal Father in the eternities before he was born. He came in the spirit of Elias to prepare the way for the coming of our Lord. No prophet since the days of Adam, save, of course, our Redeemer, has been given a greater mission.”

13. Discourses of the Prophet Joseph Smith, pg. 179; “My enemies say that I have been a true prophet. Why, I had rather be a fallen true prophet than a false prophet. When a man goes about prophesying, and commands men to obey his teachings, he must either be a true or false prophet. False prophets always arise to oppose the true prophets and they will prophesy so very near the truth that they will deceive almost the very chosen ones. (HC 6:364.)”

14. History of the Church, 6:364-5; “…He that arms himself with gun, sword, or pistol, except in the defense of truth, will sometime be sorry for it. I never carry any weapon with me bigger than my penknife. When I was dragged before the cannon and muskets in Missouri, I was unarmed. God will always protect me until my mission is fulfilled.(Joseph Smith, History of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, 7 vols., introduction and notes by B. H. Roberts [Salt Lake City: The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, 1932-1951], 6: 364 – 365.)”

15. Great are the Words of Isaiah, pg. 71; “Isaiah 11:10; The interpretation of this passage has been given by Joseph Smith in D&C 113:1-4. The stem of Jesse is Christ. The book of Revelation also identifies Jesus as such (see Rev. 5:5; 22:16). The rod is “a servant in the hands of Christ, who is partly a descendant of Jesse as well as of Ephraim” (D&C 113:4). That the servant is Joseph Smith himself seems evident.”

16. Journal of Discourses 7:289; “…no man or woman in this dispensation will ever enter into the celestial kingdom of God without the consent of Joseph Smith. From the day that the Priesthood was taken from the earth to the winding-up scene of all things, every man and woman must have the certificate of Joseph Smith, junior, as a passport to their entrance into the mansion where God and Christ are—I with you and you with me. I cannot go there without his consent. He holds the keys of that kingdom for the last dispensation—the keys to rule in the spirit-world; and he rules there triumphantly, for he gained full power and a glorious victory over the power of Satan while he was yet in the flesh, and was a martyr to his religion and to the name of Christ…”

17. Joseph Smith: Choice Seer, preface; “In assessing the marvelous impact of the Choice Seer’s work on this dispensation, we will turn first and foremost to the doctrinal teachings of Joseph Smith as set forth in his sermons, letters, revelations, translations, and narrations. In addition, we will rely occasionally on the clarifications and expansions of those who knew Brother Joseph firsthand and studied at his feet, as well as those apostolic and prophetic successors to whom is given the divine mandate to build on the doctrinal foundation he laid.”

18. Handbook of the Restoration: A Discussion of Gospel Themes, pg. 25-35; “Joseph Smith… That he was an extraordinary man is conceded by friend and foe…a restorer of the pure and uncorrupted gospel of Jesus Christ. At no time did he declare that he brought a new message of salvation to the world; his mission was to restore and declare, to expound and enlarge the old truth… the commentaries by the apostles, which constitute the latter part of the New Testament, are fragmentary and incomplete. Joseph, the Prophet, gave to the world in this day a large and rich interpretation of the gospel of Jesus Christ…The achievements of Joseph Smith are much greater than those of ordinary men; they appear to transcend usual human powers, and cannot be explained in terms of common experience… Space does not permit us to illustrate the divine power of Joseph Smith by the many principles of truth that he taught.”

19. Joseph Smith’s Idea of the Gospel, pg. 8; “Joseph Smith’s view of the gospel is based upon the assumption that, before the fall, Adam resided in the presence of God and, consequently, was enveloped in the life-giving, quickening powers that constitute God’s glory or presence. In this condition, his whole being was filled with intelligence and life, and corruption in every form was foreign to his nature. In the words of the Prophet, “All corruption is devoured by the fire.”

20. Divine Authority or the Question, Was Joseph Smith sent of God?, pg. 4; “How came Mr.Smith, if a deceiver, to think of all this? Did Martin Luther, Wesley, Whitfield, Swedenborg, or Irving think of this? Whence his superior intellect, his depth of understanding, his extensive foresight, that he should so far surpass all former impostors for 1700 years? John testifies that when the everlasting gospel is restored to the earth it shall be by an angel. Mr.Smith testifies that it was restored by an angel, and in no other way. This is another presumptive evidence that he was sent of God.”

21. LDS Hymn #27; Praise to the man, verses. 1, 2, 4;

“Praise to the man who communed with Jehovah!

Jesus annointed [sic] that Prophet and Seer.

Blessed to open the last dispensation,

Kings shall extol him and nations revere.

Hail to the Prophet, ascended to heaven!

Traitors and tyrants now fight him in vain.

Mingling with Gods, he can plan for his brethren;

Death cannot conquer the hero again.

Great is his glory and endless his priesthood.

Ever and ever the keys he will hold.

Faithful and true, he will enter his kingdom,

Crowned in the midst of the prophets of old.”

22. Encyclopedia of Mormonism, pg. 546; “Though Latter-day Saints extensively use the scriptures to learn about God, their fundamental knowledge concerning him is based upon the Prophet Joseph Smith’s first vision, the Prophet’s subsequent revelatory experiences, and individual personal revelation.”

23. Discourses of the Prophet Joseph Smith, pg. 7; “In thirty nations are men and women who look upon him as a greater leader than Moses and a greater prophet than Isaiah; his disciples now number close to a million [the present figure is over 3.5 million]; and already a granite shaft pierces the sky over the place where he was born, and another is in course of erection over the place where he is credited with having received the inspiration for his Book. (John Henry Evans, op. cit., introduction.)”

24. Answers: Straightforward Answers to Tough Gospel Questions, pg. 48; “… Joseph Smith was told that he was a descendant of Abraham…He was also told that he was a lawful heir, “according to the flesh,” to the priesthood…Prophecy further identified him as a direct lineal descendant of Joseph of Egypt… More particularly, he is represented as being a descendant of Ephraim and as having some of the blood of Jesse… title page to the Book of Mormon, which was written by Moroni, says that it will come forth by the hand of a Gentile. Reference here is to his citizenship in a Gentile nation… Thus Joseph Smith was a literal descendant of the house of Israel while at the same time being a citizen of a Gentile nation.”

So we’ll ask the question again. Doesn’t this sound like worship? We’ve listed more than enough examples where various leaders have claimed Smith is greater than Moses or Isaiah, he is related to Jesus, has done more than any other man on earth except Jesus, people studied at his feet and don’t forget, he saved the world! The most startling evidence is taken from their hymn book, Praise to the Man. To the average member of the Church it may not seem as if you’re worshipping Joseph and I can remember thinking and feeling the same way. I encourage the members to take another look after reading this and then ask yourself; “who am I worshipping”?

We see in Hebrews 9:24-28; 10:1-4; “For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us: Nor yet that he should offer himself often, as the high priest entereth into the holy place every year with blood of others; For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself. And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment: So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation….For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect. For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins. But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year. For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.”

It is impossible for man to please God without the blood of Jesus Christ. This doesn’t mean that we work for salvation because Jesus died for us! It means that Jesus did all the work alone! If you love Jesus like you say you do, please, take one day in the next week and think about everything He did for you! Think about the time He spent on the cross, read the gospels, see what He said, where He walked, what did He do? These are the things we set our minds upon as members of the body of Christ. We think about what Jesus did, the various titles that are given to Him and why, people’s reaction to Him, the patience that He portrayed for people and His unselfish love. As a Mormon can you name Jesus’ favorite place to pray?

Why would you as a Christian place a mere human between yourself and Jesus? This is exactly what the LDS Church has done with Joseph Smith! Many times members of the Church don’t even use Joseph Smith’s last name. Most refer to him as just “Joseph” and everyone knows who is being spoken of; yet when was the last time you heard a Mormon use the name of just “Jesus”? If a Christian were to use just the name of Joseph when speaking about “religious” topics they would think of Joseph from the Bible, not Joseph Smith!

Oh, He so wants for you to know Him! For just one day think upon only Jesus, if you’re really a Christian this shouldn’t be a problem. See if you can name 24 facts about Jesus in regards to His birth, how He fulfilled an Old Testament prophecy, what if anything did He say about His own death, what significant things took place when He died, a miracle He performed and why, etc. Use just the Bible for your investigation and find out first hand if it really does contradict itself.

If you’re a Mormon know that we’re praying for you. If you’re a Christian who has a friend or family member who is LDS, let us know how we can pray for you and him/her! We’re not here to bash the LDS people or to bring shame upon them publicly; we are here to contend for the faith as it says in Jude 3 and to share the truth about God’s Son, Christ Jesus!

With Love in Christ;

Michelle Grim

1 Cor. 1:18


TOPICS: History; Other non-Christian; Theology; Worship
KEYWORDS: inman; josephsmith; lds; mormon; mormonism; mormons; smithmas; worship
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To: Saundra Duffy

I don’t care if Mormons deify a dead rabbi from a couple thousand years ago and try to follow his example the best they know how. That part is great, but the mainstream Mormon beliefs that come out of the Book of Mormon and the DnC and other writings, such as becoming a god of your own planet, just strike me as odd.


41 posted on 12/06/2011 2:22:35 PM PST by Jack Hydrazine (It's the end of the world as we know it and I feel fine!)
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To: Saundra Duffy

We celebrate the birth of our Savior and love and joy of the Season.

I feel sorry for the anti Mormons; they are missing out on all the Goodness.
_________________________________________________________

Sandy, Im not missing anything by not worshipping your false prophet the criminal and child rapist Joey Smith ..

But you as an anti-Christian are missing eternity with God by not worshipping the LORD Jesus Christ and Him only...


42 posted on 12/06/2011 2:47:39 PM PST by Tennessee Nana
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To: Saundra Duffy

It looks like you are saying that we believe that Christ was a polygamist.
________________________________________

Of course...

Because thats what mormons believe...


43 posted on 12/06/2011 2:50:23 PM PST by Tennessee Nana
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To: Saundra Duffy

Oh, for .... sake. (The Name dedacted)
__________________________________________

Sandy no Christian...no believer in the God of the Christian Bible would ever take His Name in vain...

We know however that you are not a believer and therefore do not care what you say about him...


44 posted on 12/06/2011 2:53:53 PM PST by Tennessee Nana
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To: Saundra Duffy

Please be more careful when speaking of our Savior, Redeemer, and Soon Coming King, Jesus Christ of Nazareth - the Great Jehovah of the Old Testament and Savior in the New Testament.
___________________________________________

Maybe you just cut and pasted this from your Mormon website for FARMS/FAIR/LDSInc withoput reading the words...

You might want to see my last post

HYPOCRITE !!!!

Meanwhile you pitiful mormons are adding more and more words from that Christian Bible you dont believe...

and Sandy unless you say that God is Triune and that the Trinity is Truth...

and that the LORD Jesus Christ is God and always has been God...

you are just giving lip service (keyboard service ???) to these words and terms...

They mean nothing to you...

I could say and write allahu akbar all day long and it would mean nothing...


45 posted on 12/06/2011 3:00:22 PM PST by Tennessee Nana
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To: Saundra Duffy

I do not appreciate your comments about my Church and my Faith,
_______________________________________

I couldnt care less about your dumb pagan religion or what you have faith in..

If you dont like the written truth about your chosen religion

then get out...


46 posted on 12/06/2011 3:03:43 PM PST by Tennessee Nana
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To: Jack Hydrazine

Whited sepulchres. MormonISM requires of them that they earn Salvation, so they learn from childhood to behave as best they can ... until, like Milt Rominy or Harry Reid they see an opportunity to use their outward good behavior as a foil to obtain from their fellow creatures. The secret pride they carry about puts them at emtity with God, but they don’t really believe that so they continue in the lie, with pride corroding their souls the more. They are not forgiven, just goody two shoes outwardly. You see, they are taught that they ‘can’ obtain salvation necause of the Mormon jesus, after all that they can do to earn it. Devilish trap that


47 posted on 12/06/2011 3:27:56 PM PST by MHGinTN (Some, believing they cannot be deceived, it's impossible to convince them when they're deceived.)
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To: Ruy Dias de Bivar
They’re just buttering up old Joe for when they stand before him he will see how they “worshiped” him and he will let them into heaven

I hadn't thought of that before.

Interesting spiritual psycho-analysis. And probably spot on; I just can't say for certain 'cause I don't know individual Mormons' motives for Smith veneration.

Certainly, for those who believe what other Lds leaders have taught -- that they need Smith's consent to enter (celestial) heaven -- I'd say that would be a "butter up" motivator if there e'er was one.

Interesting how Mormons replace the Subject of John 14:6 (Jesus) with both "Consenter" Smith and the Mormon church (Lds first President Marion Romney called the Mormon church "the way, the truth, and the life").

48 posted on 12/06/2011 3:30:51 PM PST by Colofornian (JoePologists: Those who defend the personality cults of Joe Smith and Joe Paterno)
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To: Saundra Duffy

Your bitterness is oozing out, Sandy. Have a cookie and a cup of tea.


49 posted on 12/06/2011 3:31:46 PM PST by MHGinTN (Some, believing they cannot be deceived, it's impossible to convince them when they're deceived.)
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To: Saundra Duffy
We believe that Joseph Smith was a Prophet of God - he was just a man - and we do not worship him.

Another round of Praise to the Man shall we.

50 posted on 12/06/2011 3:43:50 PM PST by Godzilla (3/7/77)
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To: Tennessee Nana; Saundra Duffy
It looks like you are saying that we believe that Christ was a polygamist. [Saundra Duffy]

________________________________________

Of course...Because thats what mormons believe... [Tennessee Nana]

TN, I try at times (not always successful) to refrain from superimposing all past Mormon teachings on current Mormon adherents. Thousands and thousands of individual Mormons have jettisoned all kinds of beliefs -- even currently held tenets of the Mormon faith!

So even when past Lds "apostles" like the Orson trio (Orson Hyde, Orson Pratt, and Orson Whitney) taught that Jesus was a polygamist, I don't assume that's been embraced by 21st century Mormons.

What I think we can say is that I haven't seen current Mormons and current Mormon leaders directly critique those 19th century Lds "apostles" for teaching that Jesus was a polygamist.

Therefore, what Saundra and other Mormons are "guilty" of here is...
...(1) harboring false teachers -- which is failure to expose these false teachers to the light of Scripture...calling them on the carpet, so to speak...therefore sanctioning false teachings by their silence to specifically address past blasphemous Mormon teachings;
...(2a) failure to call their general authorities accountable for exercising bad cases of eisegesis (reading content into Biblical material that's just not there);
...(2b) "sustaining" current Mormon general authorities who indirectly sanction past false teachings by not correcting -- and, even worse, covering up -- those false teachings.

The bottom line here is that the financial supporters of Lds, Inc. are MOST guilty of operating as enabler-sustainers of false teachings. It's at Lds General Conferences where they verbally (and unanimously) "sustain" their leaders. Therefore, grassroots Mormons have failed miserably in holding their leaders accountable.

These things can be just as "bad" in our Lord's eyes as believing Jesus to be a polygamist!

51 posted on 12/06/2011 3:51:34 PM PST by Colofornian (JoePologists: Those who defend the personality cults of Joe Smith and Joe Paterno)
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To: Saundra Duffy
Oh, for God’s sake. It looks like you are saying that we believe that Christ was a polygamist. Please be more careful when speaking of our Savior, Redeemer, and Soon Coming King, Jesus Christ of Nazareth - the Great Jehovah of the Old Testament and Savior in the New Testament. As a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints I do not appreciate your comments about my Church and my Faith, not to mention my wonderful beautiful Savior Jesus Christ the Head of my Church.

For starters SD - cite for me an official position from your lds church regarding pro or con. Jedediah M. Grant, Orson Hyde and Orson Pratt are all documented as teaching that Jesus was polygamous. Church President Joseph F. Smith taught that at the marriage in Cana at Galilee, Jesus was the Bridegroom and Mary and Martha the brides. (Wilford Woodruff Journal, July 22, 1883). The Prophet Brigham Young taught "The Scripture says that He, the Lord, came walking in the Temple, with His train; I do not know who they were, unless His wives and children." - The Prophet Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses Vol. 13, p.309

Now SD, lets see if you have the moxie enough to denounce these prophets and apostle with the same bile as you accused "anti's" of. Oh btw, there is no 'official' church position on Jesus' polygamy SD, I've already looked, so in the absence of doctrine are you qualified to say they were teaching false doctrines? What qualifies you as an lds woman to make that proclaimation absent mormon doctrines. The assembled multitude await your answer.

52 posted on 12/06/2011 3:57:22 PM PST by Godzilla (3/7/77)
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To: Saundra Duffy; Jack Hydrazine; Godzilla; reaganaut; All
We believe that Joseph Smith was a Prophet of God - he was just a man - and we do not worship him.

ALL:

1st Question here, in light of Saundra's comments, is: Do Mormons believe that the counterfeit elohim (name for the Mormon god) was once a man? Yes or no?

Answer? Yes

2nd Question here: Do Mormons worship that ex-man?

Answer? Yes

3rd Question here: So does being a man-become-god stop Mormons from worshiping such an entity?

Answer? No

4th Question here: Do Mormons believe Joseph Smith could become a god?

Answer? Yes

So...when Saundra says that Joseph Smith "was just a man"...what's that supposed to mean?

The counterfeit elohim was/is a man, too!

53 posted on 12/06/2011 4:02:19 PM PST by Colofornian (JoePologists: Those who defend the personality cults of Joe Smith and Joe Paterno)
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To: Saundra Duffy; Jack Hydrazine; Godzilla; reaganaut; All
We believe that Joseph Smith was a Prophet of God - he was just a man - and we do not worship him.

As I indicated with a series of questions in my last post, don't let the "he was just a man" Mormon comment fool you.

You see, Mormon so-called "theology" is in actuality "anthropology"!

If you don't think so, consider what three Lds "apostles" had to say...I'll cite one here and another in the next post:

Who is the Mormon main god (to them)?

Lds "apostle" Bruce R. McConkie:
"According to [Mormon] revelation...
...he is a...
personal Being
a holy and exalted Man
a glorified, resurrected Personage [news flash: The Mormon god they pray "Our Father" to died at some point before the Mormon Jesus became his son]
having a tangible body of flesh and bones [I guess the apostle John was wrong, eh, about God being Spirit -- see John 4:23-24]
an ANTHROPOMORPHIC ENTITY,
the personal Father of the spirits of all men [this last means there's a mom-god @ Kolob w/whom this God had sex with to yield your spirit before you came to earth]
Source: Mormon Doctrine, 1966, p. 250

I mean, come now: Who wants an anthropomorphic entity --a man-made religion about a man who made his godhood level by landing the "god job" -- whose divinity didn't precede His anthro aspects?

54 posted on 12/06/2011 5:01:38 PM PST by Colofornian (JoePologists: Those who defend the personality cults of Joe Smith and Joe Paterno)
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To: Saundra Duffy; Jack Hydrazine; Godzilla; reaganaut; All
We believe that Joseph Smith was a Prophet of God - he was just a man - and we do not worship him.

McConkie wasn't alone in the Mormon teaching that anthropology = theology.

Mitt Romney is a direct descendent of Parley P. Pratt, a Mormon "apostle." Mitt Romney's ancestor taught:
"Gods, angels, and men are all of
one species,
one race,
one great family,
widely diffused among the planetary systems as colonies, kingdoms, nations, etc.
Source: The Key to the Science of Theology, 1978, p. 21

So what? Why should Romney be linked to what his ancestors taught? Well, because Romney himself provided such a linkage!

Mitt Romney, Dec, 2007, speaking @ the George Bush Presidential Library: "I believe in my Mormon faith and I endeavor to live by it. My faith is the faith of my fathers – I will be true to them and to my beliefs.

Mitt "confesses" and "professes" this as the "faith...of my fathers - I will be true to them and to my beliefs."

And what are some of these beliefs?

One is that Mormon "theology" essentially says the Mormon man-gods & man-angels bounce around the universe and thereby arrive on planet earth as essentially aliens.

Let's look at yet a third Lds "apostle" who taught this: John Widtsoe originally published in 1915 called Rational Theology. Widtsoe in that book slandered God, reducing him to be of slime and then mortal origins:
"God and man are of the same race..." (Widtsoe, p. 61)

So, when Mormons say the counterfeit elohim was once a man; and that Joseph Smith can become a god...they have just bridged the worship barrier, have they not?

55 posted on 12/06/2011 5:06:30 PM PST by Colofornian (JoePologists: Those who defend the personality cults of Joe Smith and Joe Paterno)
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To: Colofornian

Explain more about this “counterfeit elohim” you mentioned. I don’t know that much about Mormonism but the more you say the more ludicrous it sounds. Do Mormons really, really believe this stuff?

How many are like Saundra that seem either ignorant of the standard teachings within Mormonism or are being deceptively ignorant about the various aspects you mention?

How many of them know the origins of the Book of Mormon or that Mr. Smith was a con-man and a Freemason and stole quite a bit of material from them for what would become Mormonism?


56 posted on 12/06/2011 5:16:15 PM PST by Jack Hydrazine (It's the end of the world as we know it and I feel fine!)
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To: Colofornian

Explain more about this “counterfeit elohim” you mentioned. I don’t know that much about Mormonism but the more you say the more ludicrous it sounds. Do Mormons really, really believe this stuff?

How many are like Saundra that seem either ignorant of the standard teachings within Mormonism or are being deceptively ignorant about the various aspects you mention?

How many of them know the origins of the Book of Mormon or that Mr. Smith was a con-man and a Freemason and stole quite a bit of material from them for what would become Mormonism?


57 posted on 12/06/2011 5:17:20 PM PST by Jack Hydrazine (It's the end of the world as we know it and I feel fine!)
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To: Colofornian

Did you say “Gods” or “God”, angels, and men are all of one species, one race, one family...?

First off there is only one God and can be no others. According to Jews since the time of Moses God has always been defined as spirit and non-corporeal.


58 posted on 12/06/2011 5:23:00 PM PST by Jack Hydrazine (It's the end of the world as we know it and I feel fine!)
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To: Jack Hydrazine
Did you say “Gods” or “God”, angels, and men are all of one species, one race, one family...?

That's what the Mormon "apostles" have taught in the 19th and (late in the) 20th centuries...and no CURRENT Lds general authorities have ever stepped forward to directly counter that teaching!

First off there is only one God and can be no others.

Amen!

Only in Mormonism is the pride of wanting to become a fellow "god" of THE God a "good thing..." Last time I checked the Bible, the prophet Isaiah didn't exactly promote that idea (Is. 14:14-16; chapter 43; chapter 44; chapter 45).

According to Jews since the time of Moses God has always been defined as spirit and non-corporeal.

Yes. And Jesus placed this idea as front and center to our worship life...which is the focus of this thread:

23 Yet a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in the Spirit and in truth, for they are the kind of worshipers the Father seeks. 24 God is spirit, and his worshipers MUST worship in the Spirit and in truth.” (John 4:23-24)

59 posted on 12/06/2011 5:56:18 PM PST by Colofornian (JoePologists: Those who defend the personality cults of Joe Smith and Joe Paterno)
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To: Saundra Duffy; reaganaut

I hate to ask but are you high?

Lots of things about the LDS church sting the ears of Christians. I am glad that one of the teachings of the LDS church finally stings your ears.

Actually I don’t believe your feigning revolt and disgust. Your act was too rushed and forced.


60 posted on 12/06/2011 6:09:06 PM PST by pennyfarmer (Even a RINO will chew its foot off when caught in a trap.)
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