Posted on 11/30/2011 7:16:29 AM PST by ReformationFan
A number of years ago, I was on Larry King Live and was asked point blank if I had a problem with the appointments of Justices Roberts and Alito (both areRoman Catholics). My answer was very clear that I did not, as long as they shared my own conviction of upholding the Constitution - not trying to rewrite it - and as long as they were committed to the biblical values of the Founding Fathers. I was certain that both men were.
Many people today are quoting a statement reputedly made by Martin Luther, the great reformer, that he "would rather be ruled by a competent Turk (a Muslim) than an incompetent Christian." First of all, there is no evidence whatsoever that Martin Luther ever said these words. But even if he did say them, it would have been a gross exaggeration used to make a point. He never lived under a Muslim ruler and did not know what that would be like. But I did. And I can tell you, there is no such thing as choosing between Muslim and non-Muslim leaders under Islam.
In America, we have the great privilege of choosing candidates based on our core values, rather than how they identify with our theological point of view.
In looking at some of the candidates for the 2012 election, one cannot help but notice the controversies that have arisen regarding the Mormon religion. As I considered Luther's quote and the concerns regarding electing a Mormon president, I noticed some peculiar similarities between the Mormon faith and Islam as they relate to orthodox Christianity.
It's hard to believe that two religions that are worlds apart geographically have so many things in common.
Here are some examples:
1. Both believe that Christianity was corrupt and incomplete until their respective founders came on the scene. For Islam, it was Muhammad; for Mormons, it was Joseph Smith.
2. They both have their own book of "sacred scripture." While both tip their hats to the Bible, each see God's Word as insufficient by itself. Both Islam and Mormonism use many biblical themes, narratives and personalities. But the Qur'an draws heavily from the apocryphal books rather than the authoritative cannon of the Bible.
3. In both cases, Islam and Mormonism see their religion as complete within itself. Above all, both repudiate biblical Christianity and identify orthodox Christianity as a false faith.
4. Both religions reject the doctrine of the Trinity. The Mormon's concept of god includes many gods, not just one. Muslims view god as one, but as an aloof, remote god who could never become a man or relate to humanity. Allah can have mercy if he wants to, but he is also a cunning god.
5. Both religions reject the Bible as the sole and sufficient authority of faith. For Mormons, the Book of Mormon and other writings of the Latter Day Saints represent God's final revelation. For Muslims, the Qur'an and the Sunna (traditions of Muhammad) constitute God's final authoritative word.
6. They both reject the biblical teaching of original sin. Muslims believe Adam did not become completely depraved after disobeying God; he merely slipped but quickly recovered. Therefore to Muslims, humanity does not need redemption. Salvation in Islam is very uncertain, even when keeping the Five Tenants of Islam; although some teach that jihad will help in that quest for salvation. Mormons believe that they are not condemned by what many call "original sin." In other words, they are not accountable for Adam's transgression in the Garden of Eden.
Here are two questions Christians must ask when considering political candidates:
First, has the candidate been consistent in his/her political and moral values, or is he/she pandering? Second, has the candidate upheld their philosophical convictions throughout their public and private life, or did they change their political convictions to suit their audience?
All believers need to be good stewards and spend time in deep prayer before exercising their right to vote. God will give us wisdom so that we will not be persuaded by the slickest and the cleverest. We can trust Him to help us choose those who have proven core values.
I'm talking about the overall equation between the two. The koranic doctrine is the guiding force behind the examples I listed earlier.
“We may talk of men being redeemed by the efficacy of his [Christ’s] blood; but the truth is that that blood has no efficacy to wash away our sins. That must depend upon our own action.” [ LDS Apostle Amasa M. Lyman, Journal of Discourses, Vol. 7, p. 299, 1859. . . . .
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If you think about what he is saying it is obviously true. If we do not repent and seek the Grace of The Lord, (our own actions), it won’t be given. There will be Millions, no make that Billions of people from whom the blood of Christ will have no effect except to condemn them.
LDS don’t worship gods they worship GOD. They believe in the Ten Commandments and place no gods before God The Father.
I thought his article was laughable. There are so many un-truths and half truths in it.
By the way It was Martin Luther who thought The Church was corrupt and an abomination, does that make all Protestants unfit for elected office?
Leave religion out of this, the Mormons are good people and have good values. They may not worship the way we do but if we were all like they try to be it would be a better world.
Mitt is wrong for the Republican nomination for president not because of his Mormonism, but because he is RINO.
See post 20.
I think it is Wednesday....
Your effort to use faulty logic and absurd hyperbole to support your assertion that Milt’s MormonISM would be a plus in your mind is duly noted. And just for the record, yes I do know a few Mormons, and yes one or two live lives not aligned to the supposed morality of mormonism. But trying to be good to earn salvation is after all a hallmark of MormonISM. Perhaps the smoking and beer drinking helps the occasional Mormon to refocus their efforts to be good enough for The Grace of God in Christ. Can you explain it?
The poster asserted that Milt’s being a Mormon would be a plus in voting for Milt if it came down to it. IIRC, you are a Mormon. Do you agree with the quote from your Journal of Discourses? And I notice you made not one attempt to refute any of the ‘un-truths’ you calim the article offers. We get that a lot from Mormons when they want to oppose the fac ts of MormonISM being aired at FR.
The poster asserted that Milt’s being a Mormon would be a plus in voting for Milt if it came down to it. IIRC, you are a Mormon. Do you agree with the quote from your Journal of Discourses? And I notice you made not one attempt to refute any of the ‘un-truths’ you claim the article offers. We get that a lot from Mormons when they want to oppose the fac ts of MormonISM being aired at FR.
The god that was once a man?
The god of Kolob?
The god of earth?
The god of one of the millions of planets that are earth like?
The god you might become?
Per Brigham Young (yeah, the one they named a university after): "He was the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world. On every earth. How many earths are there?...Consequently every earth has its redeemer..." (Journal of Discourses, Vol. 14, p. 71, 1870)
President Spencer W. Kimball has said: “There is a purpose in the building of this earth and in the creation of man, that he might have a place in which to live, to perfect himself that he might become perfect and … raise HIMSELF, with the help of his Father, to godhood. “EACH ONE of you has it within the realm of his possibility to develop a kingdom over which you will preside as its king and god. You will need to develop yourself and grow in ability and power and worthiness, to GOVERN SUCH A WORLD WITH ALL OF ITS PEOPLE. “...You are sent to this world with a very serious purpose. You are sent to school, for that matter, to begin as a human infant and grow to unbelievable proportions in wisdom, judgment, knowledge, and power” (The Teachings of Spencer W. Kimball, ed. Edward L. Kimball [Salt Lake City: Bookcraft, 1982], p. 31).
It is because the Lord called Joseph Smith that salvation is again available to mortal men....If it had not been for Joseph Smith and the restoration, there would be no salvation,” ( Mormon Doctrine, p. 396, 670)
(Mormon Doctrine, p. 163). “And they (the Gods) said: Let there be light: and there was light,” (Book of Abraham 4:3).
Which god is that?
In my worldview, one's theological point of view affects his core values. Therefore, it behooves us to examine our candidate's religion as well as his public record. To ignore a man's theological point of view is to ignore his base motives in everything else. Ignore it at your peril.
Case in point: Obama.
Yeah you know what, I was sitting in class and I read your comment about it being Tuesday and panicked and had to check that I wasn’t sitting in the wrong class.
Just to help you, here's the quote again, which you assert is true:
"We may talk of men being redeemed by the efficacy of his [Christ's] blood; but the truth is that that blood has no efficacy to wash away our sins. That must depend upon our own action." [ LDS Apostle Amasa M. Lyman, Journal of Discourses, Vol. 7, p. 299, 1859]
'Apostle' Lyman was referring to those redeemed by the blood of Christ. He then denies that efficacy of their redemption because of the washing of regeneration, as you have sought to agree with that denial of the efficacy having washed away the sin of the redeemed in Christ. THAT denial is the spirit of anti-Christ.
"Martin Luther?"
It was the Church heierarchy that Luther said was corrupt, not the Church itself. There is no fundamental difference between the liturgys of the Catholic Church and the Lutheran Church. Luther was all about eliminating the "middle man".
Exactly.
Yeah, I had monday off, so I’m messed up by a day. At least I got the hate part right.
Both religions use/used their faith as an excuse to sexually subjugate women via polygamy, arranged marriages, and child brides.
In that you are not entirely correct. The verdict is mixed as many lds sources also state they worship Jesus Christ as well - that would make 2 'gods' being worshiped and if you throw in the semi-worship/recognition of a 'god' they call the "Holy Ghost", that makes three.
The Ten Commandments are also based upon the understanding that there was only one TRUE God. Within mormonism the fundamental understanding is that there are an uncountable plethora of 'true' gods and goddesses.
And we won’t even mention the LDS inc teaching that the Mormon ‘god’ (s) had to be appoionted as god(s) by a council of gods. Polytheism anyone?
By definition
starter you claim hate, show one example of hate against mormons (since this is an mormon/islam post)
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