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Why I do not believe in the 'Rapture'

Posted on 11/26/2011 3:33:54 PM PST by Iggles Phan

My problem with the 'Rapture' (pre-millenial; pre-tribulation) teaching is that it forces its adherents to actually REVERSE the Person of Jesus Christ to the Devil.

That's correct.

In the 'Rapture' (or Dispensational) scheme the believer is asked to take the Person of Daniel's 70th Week (Who is Jesus Christ at the Cross) described in Chapter 9, verse 27a:

"And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, ..."

... and reverse this 'he' to mean a 'future Antichrist'.

Are you confused?

Is this Jesus Christ or Antichrist?

1. The Historic View.

This view is typified by the 1599 Geneva Bible notes. These are the notes of John Calvin, Miles Coverdale, and John Knox to name a few.

1599 Geneva Bible Notes on Daniel 9:27a:

"By the preaching of the gospel he confirmed his promise, first to the Jews, and after to the Gentiles. Christ accomplished this by his death and resurrection."

It's pretty clear that the Reformers believed that Christ was the Person of Daniel's Great 70th Week.

2. The Modernist View (Dispensational).

In contrast however, compare this historic view to the Dispensational view typified in the Ryrie Study Notes (1978). Look who the modernists assign to this very same Person in Daniel 9:27a:

"The prince of verse 26, the Antichrist previously introduced in 7:8, 24-26, who will make a pact with many (of the Jewish people) at the beginning of the tribulation period. But in the middle of the week (i.e., 3 1/2 years later) Antichrist will break his covenant and desecrate the Temple by demanding worship of himself in it."

The difference couldn't be farther apart.

Historic Christianity says that Jesus fulfilled the 70th week AT THE CROSS, but Rapture Christianity (Dispensationalism) says that the Devil fulfills it in a 're-built' temple.

Therefore, Dispensationalism is no less than a frontal assault on the Cross of Christ. It reverses Jesus Christ to the Devil. It is malicious and a pernicious doctrine.

Remember, this Dispensational view was NEVER known until 1830. That's why it is a Modernist view. It was invented by JN Darby and popularized by CI Scofield, two con-men to Christianity.

In the 20th century, carpetbaggers such as Hal Lindsey, Tim LaHaye, Jack (and Rexella) Van Impe, John Hagee and others have made fame and fortune off of this con game. They have marketed this 'Rapture' theology like a cheap box of laundry detergent on TV and radio, and with videos and books.

My hope and prayer is that the Church starts to wake up out of its slumber and starts challenging its pastors, ministries, and teachers. The Cross of Christ is at stake here!

For the Glory of Christ Jesus. Amen.


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KEYWORDS: darby; dispensationalism; rapture; scofield
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To: Iscool

“Rev 19:15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.

And yet you guys claim Jesus is ruling with a rod of iron right now...”

Answer:

Hang on a minute. Let’s get this passage in full context instead of ‘cherry-picking’ verses.

[11] And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war. [12] His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself. [13] And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God. [14] And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean. [15] And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God. [16] And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.

So ... you believe that Jesus is carnally going to ride a Pegasus-type horse, carnally have a dagger in His mouth, carnally have fire-eyes, and carnally start stabbing people?

I have to respectfully disagree. Revelation is filled with Apocolyptic symbolism and this is one of the more obvious passages. I think you have an obsession of carnal fulfillment.

The earth is not God’s Kingdom.

Jesus said before Pilate and the Sanhedran, “My kingdom is not of this world.”

Jesus says the earth is clearly His footstool, not His Kingdom.

Matt 5:35 - Nor by the earth; for it is his footstool: neither by Jerusalem; for it is the city of the great King.

Acts 7: 49 - Heaven is my throne, and earth is my footstool: what house will ye build me? saith the Lord: or what is the place of my rest?


581 posted on 12/04/2011 7:07:27 AM PST by Iggles Phan
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To: Iscool
Paul establishes that he knows the 7 trumps of Revelation in ICorinthians when he said at the 'last' trump ALL flesh would be changed.

Paul did not say last trumpet...You can't change scripture to line up with your theology...Then it becomes your theology, not God's...

For the record as to what Paul did say, so there is no misrepresentation as to the 'subject' of trumpet; trumpets; trumpets; and trump. (Now John uses the word trumpeters in Revelation 18:22 and that is found in the Strong's as the Greek word #4538)

"ICor 15:50 Now this I say , brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption. 51 Behold , I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep , but we shall all be changed , 52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound , and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed . 53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality."

Trump, trumpet, trumpets, as used in the whole of the new Testament are all the same Greek word #4536.

The word 'trump' is used two times and only by Paul in ICor 15:52 and ITh 4:16. Both places are the Greek word # 4536 assigned by the Strong's.

The word 'trumpet' is used 9 times in the New Testament. ALL are the same Greek word assigned #4536 in the Strong's. Christ used the word two times in Mt 6:2 and Mt 24:31. Paul uses the word 'trumpet' three times found in ICor 14:8, ICor 15:52 and Heb 12:19. John uses the word 'trumpet' 4 times, Rev 1:10, Rev 4:1, Rev 8:13 and Rev 9:14.

Only John uses the word 'trumpets', same Greek #4536 from Strong's and these two are found in Rev 8:2, and Rev 8:6.

What the Greek word assigned the #4536 in the Strong's means: From the Strong's salpizo, from 4535 (through the idea of quavering or reverberation): a trumpet: -trump (-et).

Paul says at the LAST trump 52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound , and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed . SO how many 'trump(s)' would there have to be for there to be the LAST trump... and why does Paul say this is pertinent information to 'shew' a mystery. Certainly has nothing to do with a 'get out of Dodge' early ticket.

Salvation was offered to all born since the days of Noah,up to the Crucifixion, and they most certainly were dead first. So there is no surprise that the dead in the flesh would 'rise' first.

Christians have overcome already...We don't wait to the end of the age to find out... 1Jn 5:4 For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith. 1Jn 5:5 Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?

Well, no doubt some have 'overcome' as Revelation 15:1-4 the over-comers sing the song of Moses. I have never heard any of the followers of the 'rapture' doctrine even talk about singing this song.

Actually there are 'two' tribulations, the first takes place before Christ returns at the end of the flesh age. That means that every soul created has fulfilled what Christ told Nicodemus was required to 'see' the kingdom of God. Now Christ did not tell Nicodemus that ALL would enter the kingdom of God, only that as Christ passed through this flesh age born of woman, so would all that would be allowed to see the kingdom of God. Now as it is Written flesh cannot 'see' the Heavenly Father, only in the 'spirit' body. And the final judgment fire of perdition has not yet been 'created' to dispose of those that do not love the Heavenly Father.

Not without scripture, you don't...

Well, where to begin?

Revelation states without question there are 7 trumps.

Rev 8:2 And I saw the seven angels which stood before God; and to them were given seven trumpets. That puts to rest your theory of one trumpet and 7 trumps of the one trumpet...

Ah, 7 angels with 7 trumpets is not in dispute. There are 7 trumps, the 7th trump being the LAST trump wherein Christ returns. This is not a complicated math equation, we know how many 'trumps' and how many 'angels' and we are given in specific each 'trump' and what that quavering or reverberation announces. Actually Christ Himself in Matthew 24, Mark 13, and Luke 21 uses HIS own WORDS to describe the 'events' that are 'appointed' to take place. What Christ says is that the days of Daniel are shortened for the elects sake, but everything that Daniel said was going to take place is still going to take place but in 'quick' time. And Daniel does not hint, suggest, or state for the record the 'church' will 'get out of Dodge' before the 'action' begins.

The last trump of the trumpet is number 7. Just as there are 7 'churches', surely that does not mean there are 7 church 'ages'? And John that wrote down the words of Revelation was taken in 'spirit' to the LORD's day as to what things will look like on that 'day'. And on that Lord's day there are still 7 churches defined by their various doctrines.

You can't just make this stuff up and expect bible believers to go along with your fantasy...

Well time will tell what is fantasy and what is reality.

John was taken ahead to the Lord's Day...The Great Tribulation...And then what??? What did John see??? Rev 1:19 Write the things which thou hast seen, and the things which are, and the things which shall be hereafter; Rev 1:19 Write the things which thou hast seen, Rev. 1-3 John is standing there in the Tribulation and is told to write which he has seen in the past, ie., the church age... and the things which are, Rev. 4-19 And then John is told to write the things which are, right now...And againg, John is standing in the Tribulation... and the things which shall be hereafter; Rev. 19-22 John is then told to tell of the events after the Great Tribulation...

John does NOT one time mention the greatest escape since the beginning of this 'age'. Wonder why, since supposedly only Christians pay attention to the New Testament, that John would be told to write down things that were to take place IF there was NOT going to be anybody around that 'believed'.

Peter says that 'one' day with the LORD is as a thousand years, so that is going to be a long engagement from the 'first' day of the day of the Lord until the wedding.

Actually, the wedding takes place near the front of the 'day', thousand years... Here's the major portion of that thousand year period... Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. Rev 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. Rev 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years. There's the seventh day, the one thousand year reign of Jesus on Earth...

Yet the temptation or 'tribulation' of all mankind must take place before any wedding invitations are sent.

The deception is NOT having sealed in the mind which 'Jesus' shows up first. Even Paul says that it will not be until the last trump (7th) that the 'real' LORD and Savior returns and upon HIS return ALL flesh will be changed. So if the inhabitants on this earth are still walking around in flesh needing bread and water the 'real' Saviour has not returned

Again, it is talking about Christians...Christians only...

According to John 3:16 only those are considered 'overcomers', Scripture does NOT compartmentalize the MIND and the WORD of the Heavenly Father that sent us this instruction manual.... BUT since He and only HE is the judge as to the minds of all His children, I do NOT spend much time thinking about or talking about WHO has or has not overcome. After all given the state of Christanity as penned by John in regard to the status of those 7 churches on the first 'day' of the LORD's day all but two were warned to change their ways.

Again... Rev 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

Paul speaks to what this state of 'dead' is in ICorinthians 15. One can physically be alive in the flesh body but be deader than dead spiritually. AND as we are shown in the parable of Lazarus and the 'rich' man both had returned to the Maker that sent them, Lazarus was seen the the bosom of Abraham, (that would make Abraham alive in spirit and a Christian) while a gulf separated the 'rich' man from the Christian family. Christ said Matthew 10:28 Fear NOT them which kill the body, (flesh) but are not able to kill the 'soul': but rather fear Him Which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

verse 24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, IF it were possible, they shall deceived the very elect.

It doesn't say it is possible...It says if it were possible...But it is not possible...

The reason it is NOT possible is said because TIME was SHORTENED... Matthew 24:22 AND except those 'days' (of Daniel) should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those 'days' (of Daniel) SHALL be shortened.

NOT one word about starvation/famine for flesh food here, but instead a warning of a religious revival to deceived IF possible the very elect. Why now wouldn't the very elect be Christians? So Christians would still have to be right here on this earth IF they are going to be tempted by a religious revival.

But the Christians won't be deceived...Jesus is pointing out that the evidence will be so strong, that unless you are a Christian you will be deceived...

Ah, Jesus said there would be those who come in His name were deceived and the leaders of selling the deception. The prophets called it sheep trafficking.

Who then is going to be here to stand against the fiery darts of the devil that Paul says we are to wearing the whole armour of God? By the way this 'beast' is none other than the 'devil' tossed down to this earth (Revelation 12:12 for those who have no clue who the antiChrist is) being allowed to tempt us just as he tempted Christ as described in the beginning of Christ's ministry.

Apparently, you don't believe as well that the anti Christ is here now...Tempting us as we speak...

The 'spirit' of against Christ is here thriving and infecting by the hour. BUT big sugar daddy, the old dragon, the serpent, the accuser, the destroyer, and a legion of other roles has NOT yet been tossed down literally on this earth. That takes place according to as it is Written in the 6th 'trump', the 6th 'seal' and the 6th vial.... you know 666????

582 posted on 12/05/2011 10:17:11 PM PST by Just mythoughts (Luke 17:32 Remember Lot's wife.)
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To: Not gonna take it anymore
Pretty obvious this is the “order” which will occur in the rapture. The dead in Christ first, then we who remain...Together...will meet Him in the air. Not hard to see this.

As for looking for the word “Rapture”..it's simply no different then calling ‘Christmas” Christmas. We celebrate his birth on this day ...but when He came it was a matter that He was born, the promise had arrived...nobody announced it was Christmas.

I think people get hung up so much on what they can't see that they miss entirely the truths of that which they can see ...and therefore, once again, miss the high calling of God in Christ Jesus...stuck on distractive issues which are not issues at all. A favorite tactic of the enemy of men's souls.

583 posted on 12/06/2011 9:50:35 AM PST by caww
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To: Iggles Phan; metmom; boatbums; CynicalBear
And I saw heaven opened,

Just a bit of sidebar here....I have often wondered why we don't look closer at the procession, which will be literal and visable, with Jesus Christ leading thousands upon thousands. What a spectical this will be as all eyes observe throughout the world...truly an astounding event!

To imagine 'heaven opens' is profound beyond measure...and The procession goes on for hours. Magnificent depiction of our conquering King and all the saints with Him ...

584 posted on 12/06/2011 10:02:10 AM PST by caww
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To: caww

You just described the Mass.


585 posted on 12/06/2011 6:08:23 PM PST by Not gonna take it anymore (Member of the First Church of Christ, I am Catholic)
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To: Iggles Phan

I will say goodbye now.


586 posted on 12/06/2011 6:11:21 PM PST by bmwcyle (I am ready to serve Jesus on Earth because the GOP failed again)
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To: Not gonna take it anymore
You just described the Mass.

cough! cough!....Oh Not Eveee-en Close!...In fact diametrically opposed....A parade of old men wearing dresses with music that sounds like a funeral is underway is NOT a victory parade...it's a death parade as Mass clearly depicts...I serve the risen Christ.

The Pope shuffling under an umbrella, held up by more guys in dresses... to put a goblet in a little box and bowing down before it is just plain nonsense IMO. Though I realize it makes catholics feel special. Did you ever look inside that little box....the one I saw they forgot to do the inside as the outside...nasty looking.

As you can see I don't at all buy into the catholic mass..in fact I see it as sacrilegious in every way. The Christ I serve has risen and is seated at the right hand of God.....and in no way did He drink his own blood and body the night He instituted we do this "In remembrance" of Him. Catholics really botched that up and then some. I've read all the scriptures and argument's concerning catholics position on mass and all the rituals practiced throughout it...if anything it convinced me all the more the catholic church is in serious error by this practice...and more.

587 posted on 12/06/2011 6:51:19 PM PST by caww
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To: Iscool
There is no promise to be covered from the wrath during the Tribulation...

It's a lie for any who claim they'll be protected for the scriptures are very clear the majority will die for their faith. The remnant of Israel however will be protected just as it's written.

588 posted on 12/06/2011 6:59:32 PM PST by caww
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To: mountainlion

I wasn’t referring to the Kingdom. I was referring to how easy total destruction has become. Technology has brought that about. What used to (Biblical times) take an army years now takes a few men a few minutes.


589 posted on 12/21/2011 6:53:43 PM PST by enduserindy (Conservative Dead Head)
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To: Iggles Phan; 50mm; darkwing104; sauropod; GiovannaNicoletta; F15Eagle; wagglebee; svcw; ...
I called it in post 314

It's posting history seems to have disappeared as well.

IATZ


590 posted on 01/06/2012 10:50:30 PM PST by metmom (For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore & do not submit again to a yoke of slavery)
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To: scottteng
If I have erred I fly away with you to a mild rebuke if you are wrong you must without proper preparation endure the worst trial in human history.

wonder why he assumed that if he wasn't waiting/anticipating it, he will be apart of it anyway.

We believe by faith in His Word and without faith, no one can please God.
591 posted on 01/06/2012 11:11:01 PM PST by presently no screen name
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To: Iggles Phan
My problem with the 'Rapture' (pre-millenial; pre-tribulation) teaching is that it forces its adherents to actually REVERSE the Person of Jesus Christ to the Devil.

Strange logic going on here!

It ACTUALLY 'forces' folks to LIE to their children about the Easter Bunny!

(We adults ALL known that the EB merely delivers the eggs, and does NOT color them!)

592 posted on 01/07/2012 4:53:35 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: GiovannaNicoletta
Go ahead and deny the rest.

No need to get all hot, dealing with an admitted dingbat!

593 posted on 01/07/2012 4:55:00 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: Not gonna take it anymore
Wow, changing fonts and colors. Must make it true, I guess. /s I can dismiss what it says and not have to deal with it.
594 posted on 01/07/2012 4:57:27 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: GiovannaNicoletta
...what God has written.




NIV Matthew 2:5
"In Bethlehem in Judea," they replied, "for this is what the prophet has written:

NIV Matthew 4:1-11
1. Then Jesus was led by the Spirit into the desert to be tempted by the devil.
2. After fasting forty days and forty nights, he was hungry.
3. The tempter came to him and said, "If you are the Son of God, tell these stones to become bread."
4. Jesus answered, "It is written: `Man does not live on bread alone, but on every word that comes from the mouth of God.' "
5. Then the devil took him to the holy city and had him stand on the highest point of the temple.
6. "If you are the Son of God," he said, "throw yourself down. For it is written: "`He will command his angels concerning you, and they will lift you up in their hands, so that you will not strike your foot against a stone.' "
7. Jesus answered him, "It is also written: `Do not put the Lord your God to the test.' "
8. Again, the devil took him to a very high mountain and showed him all the kingdoms of the world and their splendor.
9. "All this I will give you," he said, "if you will bow down and worship me."
10. Jesus said to him, "Away from me, Satan! For it is written: `Worship the Lord your God, and serve him only.' "
11. Then the devil left him, and angels came and attended him.

NIV Matthew 11:10
This is the one about whom it is written: "`I will send my messenger ahead of you, who will prepare your way before you.'

NIV Matthew 21:13
"It is written," he said to them, "`My house will be called a house of prayer,' but you are making it a `den of robbers.' "

NIV Matthew 26:24
The Son of Man will go just as it is written about him.

NIV Matthew 26:31
Then Jesus told them, "This very night you will all fall away on account of me, for it is written: "`I will strike the shepherd, and the sheep of the flock will be scattered.'

NIV Mark 7:6-7
6. He replied, "Isaiah was right when he prophesied about you hypocrites; as it is written: "`These people honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me.
7. They worship me in vain; their teachings are but rules taught by men.'

NIV Mark 9:11-13
11. And they asked him, "Why do the teachers of the law say that Elijah must come first?"
12. Jesus replied, "To be sure, Elijah does come first, and restores all things. Why then is it written that the Son of Man must suffer much and be rejected?
13. But I tell you, Elijah has come, and they have done to him everything they wished, just as it is written about him."

NIV Mark 11:17
And as he taught them, he said, "Is it not written: "`My house will be called a house of prayer for all nations' ? But you have made it `a den of robbers.' "

NIV Mark 14:27
"You will all fall away," Jesus told them, "for it is written: "`I will strike the shepherd, and the sheep will be scattered.'

NIV Luke 1:1-4
1. Many have undertaken to draw up an account of the things that have been fulfilled among us,
2. just as they were handed down to us by those who from the first were eyewitnesses and servants of the word.
3. Therefore, since I myself have carefully investigated everything from the beginning, it seemed good also to me to write an orderly account for you, most excellent Theophilus,
4. so that you may know the certainty of the things you have been taught.

NIV Luke 4:17-19
17. The scroll of the prophet Isaiah was handed to him. Unrolling it, he found the place where it is written:
18. "The Spirit of the Lord is on me, because he has anointed me to preach good news to the poor. He has sent me to proclaim freedom for the prisoners and recovery of sight for the blind, to release the oppressed,
19. to proclaim the year of the Lord's favor."

NIV Luke 7:27
This is the one about whom it is written: "`I will send my messenger ahead of you, who will prepare your way before you.'

NIV Luke 10:26
"What is written in the Law?" he replied. "How do you read it?"

NIV Luke 18:31-33
31. Jesus took the Twelve aside and told them, "We are going up to Jerusalem, and everything that is written by the prophets about the Son of Man will be fulfilled.
32. He will be handed over to the Gentiles. They will mock him, insult him, spit on him, flog him and kill him.
33. On the third day he will rise again."

NIV Luke 20:17-18
17. Jesus looked directly at them and asked, "Then what is the meaning of that which is written: "`The stone the builders rejected has become the capstone ' ?
18. Everyone who falls on that stone will be broken to pieces, but he on whom it falls will be crushed."

NIV Luke 21:22
For this is the time of punishment in fulfillment of all that has been written.

NIV Luke 22:37
It is written: `And he was numbered with the transgressors' ; and I tell you that this must be fulfilled in me. Yes, what is written about me is reaching its fulfillment."

NIV Luke 24:44-47
44. He said to them, "This is what I told you while I was still with you: Everything must be fulfilled that is written about me in the Law of Moses, the Prophets and the Psalms."
45. Then he opened their minds so they could understand the Scriptures.
46. He told them, "This is what is written: The Christ will suffer and rise from the dead on the third day,
47. and repentance and forgiveness of sins will be preached in his name to all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.

NIV John 2:17
His disciples remembered that it is written: "Zeal for your house will consume me."
NIV John 6:31
Our forefathers ate the manna in the desert; as it is written: `He gave them bread from heaven to eat.' "

NIV John 6:45
It is written in the Prophets: `They will all be taught by God.' Everyone who listens to the Father and learns from him comes to me.

NIV John 12:14-15
14. Jesus found a young donkey and sat upon it, as it is written,
15. "Do not be afraid, O Daughter of Zion; see, your king is coming, seated on a donkey's colt."

NIV John 12:14-16
14. Jesus found a young donkey and sat upon it, as it is written,
15. "Do not be afraid, O Daughter of Zion; see, your king is coming, seated on a donkey's colt."
16. At first his disciples did not understand all this. Only after Jesus was glorified did they realize that these things had been written about him and that they had done these things to him.

NIV John 15:25
But this is to fulfill what is written in their Law: `They hated me without reason.'

NIV John 20:30-31
30. Jesus did many other miraculous signs in the presence of his disciples, which are not recorded in this book.
31. But these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name.

NIV Acts 1:20
"For," said Peter, "it is written in the book of Psalms, "`May his place be deserted; let there be no one to dwell in it,' and, "`May another take his place of leadership.'

NIV Acts 7:42
But God turned away and gave them over to the worship of the heavenly bodies. This agrees with what is written in the book of the prophets: "`Did you bring me sacrifices and offerings forty years in the desert, O house of Israel?

NIV Acts 13:29
When they had carried out all that was written about him, they took him down from the tree and laid him in a tomb.

NIV Acts 13:32-33
32. "We tell you the good news: What God promised our fathers
33. he has fulfilled for us, their children, by raising up Jesus. As it is written in the second Psalm: "`You are my Son; today I have become your Father. '

NIV Acts 15:15-18
15. The words of the prophets are in agreement with this, as it is written:
16. "`After this I will return and rebuild David's fallen tent. Its ruins I will rebuild, and I will restore it,
17. that the remnant of men may seek the Lord, and all the Gentiles who bear my name, says the Lord, who does these things'
18. that have been known for ages.

NIV Acts 23:5
Paul replied, "Brothers, I did not realize that he was the high priest; for it is written: `Do not speak evil about the ruler of your people.' "

NIV Acts 24:14
However, I admit that I worship the God of our fathers as a follower of the Way, which they call a sect. I believe everything that agrees with the Law and that is written in the Prophets,
and I have the same hope in God as these men, that there will be a resurrection of both the righteous and the wicked.

NIV Romans 1:17
For in the gospel a righteousness from God is revealed, a righteousness that is by faith from first to last, just as it is written: "The righteous will live by faith."

NIV Romans 2:24
As it is written: "God's name is blasphemed among the Gentiles because of you."

NIV Romans 3:4
Not at all! Let God be true, and every man a liar. As it is written: "So that you may be proved right when you speak and prevail when you judge."

NIV Romans 3:10-12
10. As it is written: "There is no one righteous, not even one;
11. there is no one who understands, no one who seeks God.
12. All have turned away, they have together become worthless; there is no one who does good, not even one."

NIV Romans 4:17
As it is written: "I have made you a father of many nations." He is our father in the sight of God, in whom he believed--the God who gives life to the dead and calls things that are not as though they were.

NIV Romans 4:23-24
23. The words "it was credited to him" were written not for him alone,
24. but also for us, to whom God will credit righteousness--for us who believe in him who raised Jesus our Lord from the dead.

NIV Romans 8:36
As it is written: "For your sake we face death all day long; we are considered as sheep to be slaughtered."

NIV Romans 9:13
Just as it is written: "Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated."

NIV Romans 9:33
As it is written: "See, I lay in Zion a stone that causes men to stumble and a rock that makes them fall, and the one who trusts in him will never be put to shame."

NIV Romans 10:15
And how can they preach unless they are sent? As it is written, "How beautiful are the feet of those who bring good news!"

NIV Romans 11:7-10
7. What then? What Israel sought so earnestly it did not obtain, but the elect did. The others were hardened,
8. as it is written: "God gave them a spirit of stupor, eyes so that they could not see and ears so that they could not hear, to this very day."
9. And David says: "May their table become a snare and a trap, a stumbling block and a retribution for them.
10. May their eyes be darkened so they cannot see, and their backs be bent forever."

NIV Romans 11:26-27
26. And so all Israel will be saved, as it is written: "The deliverer will come from Zion; he will turn godlessness away from Jacob.
27. And this is my covenant with them when I take away their sins."

NIV Romans 12:19
Do not take revenge, my friends, but leave room for God's wrath, for it is written: "It is mine to avenge; I will repay," says the Lord.

NIV Romans 14:11
It is written: "`As surely as I live,' says the Lord, `every knee will bow before me; every tongue will confess to God.'"

NIV Romans 15:3-4
3. For even Christ did not please himself but, as it is written: "The insults of those who insult you have fallen on me."
4. For everything that was written in the past was written to teach us, so that through endurance and the encouragement of the Scriptures we might have hope.

NIV Romans 15:7-12
7. Accept one another, then, just as Christ accepted you, in order to bring praise to God.
8. For I tell you that Christ has become a servant of the Jews on behalf of God's truth, to confirm the promises made to the patriarchs
9. so that the Gentiles may glorify God for his mercy, as it is written: "Therefore I will praise you among the Gentiles; I will sing hymns to your name."
10. Again, it says, "Rejoice, O Gentiles, with his people."
11. And again, "Praise the Lord, all you Gentiles, and sing praises to him, all you peoples."
12. And again, Isaiah says, "The Root of Jesse will spring up, one who will arise to rule over the nations; the Gentiles will hope in him."

NIV Romans 15:21
Rather, as it is written: "Those who were not told about him will see, and those who have not heard will understand."

NIV 1 Corinthians 1:19
For it is written: "I will destroy the wisdom of the wise; the intelligence of the intelligent I will frustrate."

NIV 1 Corinthians 1:31
Therefore, as it is written: "Let him who boasts boast in the Lord."

NIV 1 Corinthians 2:9
However, as it is written: "No eye has seen, no ear has heard, no mind has conceived what God has prepared for those who love him" --

NIV 1 Corinthians 3:19-20
19. For the wisdom of this world is foolishness in God's sight. As it is written: "He catches the wise in their craftiness" ;
20. and again, "The Lord knows that the thoughts of the wise are futile."

NIV 1 Corinthians 4:6
Now, brothers, I have applied these things to myself and Apollos for your benefit, so that you may learn from us the meaning of the saying, "Do not go beyond what is written." Then you will not take pride in one man over against another.

NIV 1 Corinthians 9:9
For it is written in the Law of Moses: "Do not muzzle an ox while it is treading out the grain." Is it about oxen that God is concerned?

NIV 1 Corinthians 10:7
Do not be idolaters, as some of them were; as it is written: "The people sat down to eat and drink and got up to indulge in pagan revelry."

NIV 1 Corinthians 10:11
These things happened to them as examples and were written down as warnings for us, on whom the fulfillment of the ages has come.

NIV 1 Corinthians 14:21
In the Law it is written: "Through men of strange tongues and through the lips of foreigners I will speak to this people, but even then they will not listen to me," says the Lord.

NIV 1 Corinthians 15:45
So it is written: "The first man Adam became a living being" ; the last Adam, a life-giving spirit.

NIV 1 Corinthians 15:54
When the perishable has been clothed with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality, then the saying that is written will come true: "Death has been swallowed up in victory."

NIV 2 Corinthians 1:13-14
13. For we do not write you anything you cannot read or understand. And I hope that,
14. as you have understood us in part, you will come to understand fully that you can boast of us just as we will boast of you in the day of the Lord Jesus.

NIV 2 Corinthians 4:13-14
13. it is written: "I believed; therefore I have spoken." With that same spirit of faith we also believe and therefore speak,
14. because we know that the one who raised the Lord Jesus from the dead will also raise us with Jesus and present us with you in his presence.

NIV 2 Corinthians 8:15
as it is written: "He who gathered much did not have too much, and he who gathered little did not have too little."

NIV 2 Corinthians 9:9

NIV Galatians 3:10
All who rely on observing the law are under a curse, for it is written: "Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law."

NIV Galatians 3:13
Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us, for it is written: "Cursed is everyone who is hung on a tree."

NIV Galatians 4:22
For it is written that Abraham had two sons, one by the slave woman and the other by the free woman.

NIV Galatians 4:27
For it is written: "Be glad, O barren woman, who bears no children; break forth and cry aloud, you who have no labor pains; because more are the children of the desolate woman than of her who has a husband."

NIV Hebrews 10:7
Then I said, `Here I am-- it is written about me in the scroll-- I have come to do your will, O God.'"

NIV 1 Peter 1:16
for it is written: "Be holy, because I am holy."

NIV 2 Peter 3:16
He writes the same way in all his letters, speaking in them of these matters. His letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction.

NIV 1 John 2:12-14
12. I write to you, dear children, because your sins have been forgiven on account of his name.
13. I write to you, fathers, because you have known him who is from the beginning. I write to you young men, because you have overcome the evil one. I write to you, dear children, because you have known the Father.
14. I write to you, fathers, because you have known him who is from the beginning. I write to you, young men, because you are strong, and the word of God lives in you, and you have overcome the evil one.


595 posted on 01/07/2012 5:01:49 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: Elsie

And? these verses explain the rapture, how?

Or is it just normal verse slinging having nothing to do with the basic rationalization of the rapture theory which appeared less than 200 years ago?

http://reformedonline.com/view/reformedonline/rapture.htm

The Origin of the Pretribulation Rapture Teaching

Whenever a Christian encounters a doctrine that has not been taught by anyone in any branch of Christ’s church for over eighteen centuries, one should be very suspect of that teaching. This fact in and of itself does not prove that the new teaching is false. But, it should definitely raise one’s suspicions, for if something is taught in Scripture, it is not unreasonable to expect at least a few theologians and exegetes to have discovered it before. The teaching of a secret pretribulation rapture is a doctrine that never existed before 1830. Did the pretribulation rapture come into existence by a careful exegesis of Scripture? No. The first person to teach the doctrine was a young woman named Margaret Macdonald. Margaret was not a theologian or Bible expositor but was a prophetess in the Irvingite sect (the Catholic Apostolic Church). Christian journalist Dave MacPherson has written a book on the subject of the origin of the pre-tribulation rapture. He writes: “We have seen that a young Scottish lassie named Margaret Macdonald had a private revelation in Port Glasgow, Scotland, in the early part of 1830 that a select group of Christians would be caught up to meet Christ in the air before the days of Antichrist. An eye-and-ear witness, Robert Norton M.D., preserved her handwritten account of her pre-trib rapture revelation in two of his books, and said it was the first time anyone ever split the second coming into two distinct parts or stages. His writings, along with much other Catholic Apostolic Church literature, have been hidden many decades from the mainstream of Evangelical thought and only recently surfaced. Margaret’s views were well-known to those who visited her home, among them John Darby of the Brethren. Within a few months her distinctive prophetic outlook was mirrored in the September, 1830 issue of The Morning Watch and the early Brethren assembly at Plymouth, England. Early disciples of the pre-trib interpretation often called it a new doctrine.”2

John Nelson Darby (1800-1882), who was the leader of the Brethren movement and the “father of modern Dispensationalism,” took Margaret Macdonald’s new teaching on the rapture, made some changes (she taught a partial rapture of believers while he taught that all believers would be raptured) and incorporated it into his Dispensational understanding of Scripture and prophecy. Darby would spend the rest of his life speaking, writing and traveling, spreading the new rapture theory. The Plymouth Brethren openly admitted and were even proud of the fact that among their teachings were totally new ones which had never been taught by the church fathers, medieval scholastics, Protestant Reformers or the many commentators.

The person most responsible for the rather widespread acceptance of Pretribulationalism and Dispensationalism among Evangelicals is Cyrus Ingerson Scofield (1843-1921). C. I. Scofield published his Scofield Reference Bible in 1909. This Bible, which espoused the doctrines of Darby in its notes, became very popular in Fundamentalist circles. In the minds of many a Bible teacher, fundamentalist pastor and multitudes of professing Christians, Scofield’s notes were practically equated with the word of God itself. If a person did not adhere to the Dispensational, Pretribulational scheme he or she would almost automatically be labeled a modernist.

Today there is a whole plethora of books advocating the pretribulation rapture theory and the Dispensational understanding of the end times. Given the fact that among professing Christians the pre-trib rapture is still wildly popular, a comparison of this theory with scriptural teaching is warranted. We will see that the typical arguments offered in favor of this theory are in conflict with the Bible.


596 posted on 01/07/2012 5:31:08 AM PST by Not gonna take it anymore (If Obama were twice as smart as he is, he would be a wit)
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To: metmom
Enh. OK. Whoever he was. I did not recognize the style.

I'd given up on this thread long ago, anyway.

597 posted on 01/07/2012 6:38:00 AM PST by Lee N. Field (I speculate that there might be brain lesions involved.)
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To: Lee N. Field

All I know is that Mimi Rogers was smokin’ hot in that flick. Made me wonder why Tom Cruise never indulged in her at any time during their marriage.


598 posted on 01/07/2012 6:43:16 AM PST by PJ-Comix ("Now I am become Death, destroyer of oysters" ---from the Buffetvad Gita)
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To: Not gonna take it anymore

I am not gonna take it anymore! The rapture may be today! The Lord Jesus Christ will return for His bride at any moment. :)


599 posted on 01/07/2012 7:31:33 AM PST by marbren (I do not know but, Thank God, God knows)
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To: marbren

The rapture might be today! :)


600 posted on 01/07/2012 8:11:41 AM PST by marbren (I do not know but, Thank God, God knows)
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