Gay Episcopal Bishop to Preach at San Francisco Catholic Parish

Catholic Culture ^ | 11/22/11

[marshmallow]

A notoriously 'gay-friendly' parish in San Francisco has invited an openly homosexual Episcopalian cleric to lead an Advent Vespers service.

Most Holy Redeemer parish asked Bishop Otis Charles, a retired Episcopalian prelate, to lead the November 30 service. After serving as the Bishop of Utah from 1971 to 1993, he publicly announced that he is homosexual. Divorced from the mother of his 5 children, he solemnized a same-sex union in 2004.

[RnMomof7]

Do you honestly believe that? Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor.

How funny when saying a man is a catholic priest is perceived as an insult by a catholic..

[ArrogantBustard]

Scripture is only true and valuable as defined by tradition and the Roman church

Really??? If that's your view, OK. It's weird and I don't agree with it, but you're free to believe that. Please be sure that you don't project your weird beliefs onto others, though.

OTOH ... if you think that is what Catholics believe ... wow. Your understanding of Catholic belief is mistaken. Wrong. Backwards, in fact. Thou shalt not bear false witness against they neighbour.

BTW ... you haven't yet answered as to whether or not you believe yourself to be an infallible interpreter of Scripture or an inerrant arbiter of doctrine. Jus' sayin' ...

[D-fendr]

I’ve given you a link to the enough Church teaching and scriptural interpretation to keep you busy for some time. I’ll send you more when you’re ready.

If your query is sincere, go for it.

If not...

[rzman21]

One more time.. IF THE magisterium is the infallible teaching arm of the church why would they not desire that the people have access to a completely infallible commentary of the scriptures?? pretty simple question

>>You are a mistress of the irrelevant. Besides, I’m not a Roman Catholic, so I don’t even think a systematic theology is necessary.

[RnMomof7]

That is not a commentary.. showing the text in context ... giving the historic, language, and participants etc... what the RCC catechism does is cherry pick scripture out of context..not to expound the scripture but to support their doctrine.. because to the RCC scripture is secondary to their doctrine an traditions..so scripture is twisted and turned to ‘fit” where possible..

[rzman21]

I’d say you enjoy cherry-picking from scripture to support your egalitarian reading of the Bible.

[ArrogantBustard]

How funny when saying a man is a catholic priest is perceived as an insult by a catholic..

The flaming faggot in question is a protestant minister, and maintains his protestant associations. He does not wish to be known as Catholic. He wishes to be known as protestant, and the protestant community to which claims adherence accepts him.

You have accused him of lying.

Have you any proof that he is lying, or are you bearing false witness against him?

[RnMomof7]

So ????.Show me where Peter, Paul, John,Jude,Luke, Matthew or Mark believed it

[boatbums]

I do not reject the belief that Mary, the Mother of our Lord Jesus Christ, is in Heaven. Of course she is, as she was not only his mother but one of his followers, she is now in her eternal reward along with all the Old Testament saints, as well as the believers in Christ while he was here on Earth, as well as all those believers since that have died. My objection is merely that there was no mention of a bodily assumption in Scripture, no extra-biblical writings of the Apostles - not even from John who cared for her in her years after the Crucifixion. In fact, the Catholic Church waited nearly two thousand years to even claim it as an infallible doctrine of the faith - de fide - and warn of excommunication to anyone who did not hold to that declaration.

[Iscool]

Do you, then, think that paintings and statues of other people signify an attempt to arrest those persons in their respective poses? Does a picture of George Washington as a boy chopping a cherry tree mean he never grew up to be a soldier? Does a picture of GW as a general crossing the Delaware mean he never became president

Your religion doesn't have any pictures of George crossing the Delaware...Nor as President...They are all with little George cutting down the tree...You haven't explained that yet...

[RnMomof7]

All infallible teachings have been put into writing. Catholics are free to speculate on scriptural interpretation in all other areas as long as we do not try to define our own dogmas like Protestants.

Doctrine preceded the scriptures..thats what I thought.. also it leaves the church free to come up with new meanings and doctrines out of previously un-infallibly interpreted scriptures..

[mas cerveza por favor]

The Catholic Church never claimed to posses the Protestant knack for interpreting all parts of the bible at will. Instead, the Church solemnly reveals God’s infallible teaching for all time and all peoples only when inspired by the Paraclete. Such responsibility cannot be taken lightly or exercised superfluously. One can only imagine apostolic successors exercising such divinely ordained authority with great awe and trepidation. Understandably, it is historically rare for popes to promulgate teaching from the chair of Peter. Much more often, popes merely repeat the words or their predecessors.

[CynicalBear]

>>It fits the definition of universal assent and antiquity.<<

No, no, no. Your accusation was the interpretation of scripture. Not universal assent and antiquity.

>>and as Martin Luther wrote<<

When did Martin Luther become scripture?

>>how she got there body and soul is a mystery<<

So Mary was actually the first resurrection and not Revelation 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection:

And could you tell us how she snuck in there between what scripture says will be the next resurrection after Christ?

1 Corinthians 15:23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

>> And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she had a place prepared by God, that there they should feed her, a thousand two hundred sixty days.<<

So Mary is coming back to earth to flee into the wilderness during the last 3 1/5 years of the tribulation?

>> And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman who brought forth the man child.<<

And she’s going to be persecuted again on earth when the dragon (satan) is cast down to the earth? Wow! I thought she wasn’t going to be tormented any more. Why would Christ to that to His mother?

>> And the serpent cast out of his mouth, after the woman, water, as it were a river: that he might cause her to be carried away by the river.<<

And she’s going to have to escape from the water like that? My goodness, Jesus surely has some trouble in store for her still.

[D-fendr]

Then you want the Catholic Study Bible. I believe it's available online.

Interpretation, however, involves meaning, what the Holy Scripture means in terms of faith, salvation, eschatology, revelation, God, Man, who we are and what our proper relationship is to each other and to God.

That's interpretation and that's found at the link I posted before (among many other places). There you will also find all the basics of the Catholic Faith.

If you wish to see how scripture is interpreted, what it means, on a broader range of subjects, I can give you this as well.

For example, click here to find fairly short encyclical with dozens and dozens of scriptural interpretations as they apply to the subject of Faith and Reason. It is also very interesting and well written and most applicable to the culture we face as Christians today.

If one sincerely wishes to learn how the Church interprets and applies Holy Scripture, what it means to the Church, there's a huge amount of material I can link you to.

[CynicalBear]

>> Wanna guess??<<

Hehehe!

[rzman21]

What then explains the universal belief in the same stories about the Assumption/Dormition from very early on?

We find the same hagiography in the Armenian, Coptic, Ethiopic, Syriac and Byzantine traditions. It would be one thing if it were only a local tradition of the Church of Rome or the Church of Constantinople.

I might add that these groups didn’t exactly like each other from very early on.

The stories about Jesus’s crucifixion and resurrection were matters of oral tradition for decades after the fact.

I think this consensus minus the medieval accretions about her not having died add credence to the belief.

As a Byzantine, I find the whole thing about codifying pious belief troubling.

Nontheless, I accept the dogma because of the witness of universal Tradition.

[D-fendr]

It is surprising that those who know the Church does not adhere to sola scriptura, still expect some kind of lined-out, word by word, one meaning possible only, systematic theology.

If Christ had established a sola scriptura Church, perhaps the Church would, but then there would have to be many different versions of it, to cover all the different sola scriptura interpretations we see using this doctrine.

But then, the Church would not be One, Apostolic or Catholic.

[rzman21]

Tribulation. The Book of Revelation talks about the Roman Empire.

[CynicalBear]

I am truly sorry you didn’t understand but the answer was there.

[rzman21]

So ????.Show me where Peter, Paul, John,Jude,Luke, Matthew or Mark believed it

>>You are arguing from silence. Kind of like when the gay theology folks say Jesus didn’t condemn homosexuality because he never talked about it in the scriptures.