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Posted on 10/31/2011 8:54:35 PM PDT by delacoert
Robert Jeffress made national headlines recently with his assertion that Mormonism is a "cult" and a "false religion." Peter Wehner, a political commentator whose blog I read regularly, immediately criticized what he termed "the theological and political errors of Pastor Jeffress."
What are the facts behind the firestorm? Is Mormonism a "cult?” The answer depends on your definition of the term.
If by "cult" you mean the popular caricature of a manipulative group that practices mind control and exploits its members, the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints clearly does not qualify.
However, scholars use the word differently. According to Walter Martin's definitive The Rise of the Cults, a "cult" is "a group of people polarized around someone's interpretation of the Bible and is characterized by major deviations from orthodox Christianity relative to the cardinal doctrines of the Christian faith, particularly the fact that God became man in Christ Jesus." They claim a founder other than Jesus, follow a book other than the Bible, accept beliefs outside traditional Christianity, and seek salvation in ways other than by grace through faith.
There is no question that Mormons claim to be Christians. Responding to Jeffress, the church released a statement claiming that "Christ is at the center of our worship, study, service and faith." But what do they believe about God?
Their movement was founded 1,800 years after Christ by Joseph Smith (1805-44). He taught that "God was once as we are now, and is an exalted man, and sits enthroned in yonder heavens" (King Follett Discourses). According to Smith, "The Father has a body of flesh and bones as tangible as man's" (Doctrine and Covenants 130:22). The church teaches that God the Father in his glorified physical body had sexual intercourse with the virgin Mary, resulting in the conception of the physical Christ (Journal of Discourses 1:51; 4:218).
Do they follow a book other than the Bible? In addition to Scripture, they consider the Book of Mormon to be "another testament of Jesus Christ" revealed by Jesus to descendants of Israel living in early America. They also follow Doctrine and Covenants and Pearl of Great Price, compendiums of theology and prescribed practices.
Do they accept beliefs outside traditional Christianity? Smith taught plural marriage as a "new and everlasting covenant" (Doctrine and Covenants 132:1,4). Though the church repudiated polygamy in 1890, some splinter groups still follow the practice. They baptize for the dead, believing that this action can speed the progress of the deceased in the afterlife.
Do they seek salvation in ways other than by grace through faith? Mormons believe that baptism purges their Gentile blood and replaces it with the blood of Abraham through the Holy Spirit. In this way they become the actual offspring of Abraham (History of the Church 3:380). They believe in three levels of glory: The telestial kingdom (for those who have no testimony of Christ); the terrestial kingdom (for those who fail the requirements of exaltation); and the celestial kingdom (reserved for members of the Mormon church who will become gods; Doctrine and Covenants 132:20)
Are Mormons Christians? That depends on the degree to which they accept the non-biblical teachings of their faith regarding God and salvation. I have met Mormons who assure me that they have asked the Lord Jesus Christ to forgive their sins and become their personal Savior and Lord. Many do not know as much about their church's doctrines as I do. However, I have also met Mormons who believe that their progress toward the celestial kingdom depends not on Jesus' sacrifice but on their missionary work and other church activities.
One final issue: Should the Mormon beliefs of Mitt Romney and Jon Huntsman influence Christians as they decide which candidate to support for president? Our decision should be informed by our answers to two prior questions. First, to what extent do Romney and Huntsman accept the non-Christian elements of their faith? Second, to what degree would decisions made by the president be impacted by uniquely Mormon beliefs?
How about 13 year old Eagle Scouts? ;^)
I was involved in a discussion with an LdS Scouter last night who, in his zeal to promote LdS Scouting, used the example of a 13 year old "Eagle" to try and make his point.
However, I do have to give Scoutmaster's post a big bump. What he says is absolutely correct.
I have learned to "categorize" Scouts 3 ways;
1. those who are gung-ho, love Scouting and are Eagle bound,
2. those who enjoy it, want to be with friends, but are not rank motivated, and
3. those who are there only because parent(s) make them attend.
The first two are easy to work with, the third, not so much, but try and teach them the values contained within the Oath and Law.
That's why I enjoy being a leader so much, so many types of Scouts and just as many ways to have an impact on their lives.
“Didn’t you say on FR these things were said about Catholics?”
Yes. By a small % of nonCatholic Christians, I have observed. what have you observed on the matter?
“Didn’t you say that lds never say these things about Catholics?
I said I have have never seen LDS say these thing on FR. Have you?
I was pointing out that the very foundation of lds is anti-Catholic/Christian.
Catholics are Christian. And I was just pointing out my observations as well, like we all do on FR.
“The post is not about Jefress, it is about mormonISM.”
The first sentence of the article is about Jeffress. I simply used DR. Jeffress to illustrate my point that there are some nonCatholic Christians who seem to agree with J. Smith about the Catholic Church, to a freeper who pointed out that the lDS say the Catholic Church is the whore of babylon.
FReegards
Excellent!
Scouts (and the Amish) will inherit the Earth.
Oh... Hillybilly Hand Fishers will too!
There's an immense joy in working with a Scout who falls into that category #3 and finding one thing about Scouting that he enjoys, or that he would enjoy. Then, in a Scoutmaster conference, letting him know that you're never going to pressure him to earn a rank or a merit badge, but that you'll move mountains to make certain he can do one thing as long as he meets the requirements.
I had a Scout once who was only interested in the one thing that interests all new Scouts - fire.
He worked with one of our crusty old Scoutmasters until he could start a fire with a wet sock in a rainstorm. Then he learned a dozen interesting ways to start fires - all working with a designated Assistant Scoutmaster. 0000 steel wool and the battery from a Mini-Mag flashlight. Half a ping-pong ball and a couple of drops of glycerine. Some dry grass in the reflector of an Army surplus L-shaped flashlight (those reflectors are magic). The you-can't-blow-me-out birthday candles.
The Scout finished by making a presentation to the rest of the Troop that amazed all of the Scouts and half of the Assistant Scoutmasters.
At the next campout, Providence prevailed and it rained. He wound up helping almost every patrol start their fire.
From that point on, he was hooked on Scouting and his interest blossomed into other areas.
He didn't reach Eagle. He aged out at 18 as a Star Scout.
Those are the success stories you keep you going.
I can't really begin to answer that one MHG - such things are on an individual by individual basis.
I have trouble within my program with 14 yr old GMA (Gold Medal of Achievement) earners. Somehow when our progam went through a transition 9 years ago, our national office forgot that most boys are not mature enough by the end of 8th grade to have really EARNED this award, and they left little in the plans for the next age group to continue to work towards it.
For both programs the emphasis must remain on build character into the boys that will carry through to adulthood - regardless of rank attained.
Indeed these are. There is a boy in another city, black, single parent home in the bad part of town. The ranger commanders there got him going to rangers and church. He eventually was inducted into Frontiersman camping fellowship - similar to the OA. It was raining that night and he looked like a drown rat wondering what he got himself into. Fast forward 9 years later, he is a National FCF Scout for our area (after serving 2 years as Territorial Scout) and is an inspiration to younger boys in the district and territory. It was my pleasure to be his booshway when he earned his Wilderness level in FCF (equivalent to Vigil honor).
He was a boy the world would have nothing to do with and statistically his circumstances would have had him moving into a life within gangs and crime. It is working with the boys that make it all worth while.
IMHO, when a person places himself above God, and relies upon his own works, oaths and covenants of righteousness for his eternity, then he no longer believes in Christ. This can happen in any “religion,” not just Mormonism.
However, in Mormonism this belief in works to attain Godhood has reached a pinnacle of self-worship, and denigrates Jesus’ ultimate sacrifice and saving Grace.
I’ve learned over the years to accept that I may never know the impact I’ve had on a Scout’s life.
I just pray that it’s a good one. It’s about all I can hope for.
Glad to see that you were able to see your sapling bear fruit, good fruit.
LOL, actually the kid is the size of a moose. You ought to hear him when he gets his preach on.
bttt
Let’s do it this way, when you learn about mormonISM get back to me.
“Let’s do it this way, when you learn about mormonISM get back to me.”
I’m not sure what for. You posted to me first. And I answered every time. What have I said about Mormonism on this thread that doesn’t meet your approval?
Freegards
bttt
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