Posted on 10/29/2011 3:31:02 PM PDT by RnMomof7
Catholics who believe a purifying fire will purge away their sins are deluded victims of a fatal fabrication. The invention of a place for purification of sins called Purgatory is one of the most seductive attractions of the Roman Catholic religion. Pastor John MacArthur of Grace Community Church described this deceptive hoax brilliantly. He said: "Purgatory is what makes the whole system work. Take out Purgatory and it's a hard sell to be a Catholic. Purgatory is the safety net, when you die, you don't go to hell. You go [to Purgatory] and get things sorted out and finally get to heaven if you've been a good Catholic. In the Catholic system you can never know you're going to heaven. You just keep trying and trying...in a long journey toward perfection. Well, it's pretty discouraging. People in that system are guilt-ridden, fear-ridden and have no knowledge of whether or not they're going to get into the Kingdom. If there's no Purgatory, there's no safety net to catch me and give me some opportunity to get into heaven. It's a second chance, it's another chance after death" (from "The Pope and the Papacy").
The Origin of Purgatory
There was no mention of Purgatory during the first two centuries of the church. However, when Roman Emperor Theodosius (379-395) decreed that Christianity was to be the official religion of the empire, thousands of pagans flooded into the Church and brought their pagan beliefs and traditions with them. One of those ancient pagan beliefs was a place of purification where souls went to make satisfaction for their sins.
The concept became much more widespread around 600 A.D. due to the fanaticism of Pope Gregory the Great. He developed the doctrine through visions and revelations of a Purgatorial fire. According to the Catholic Encyclopedia (CE), Pope Gregory said Catholics "will expiate their faults by purgatorial flames," and "the pain [is] more intolerable than any one can suffer in this life." Centuries later, at the Council of Florence (1431), it was pronounced an infallible dogma. It was later reaffirmed by the Council of Trent (1564). The dogma is based largely on Catholic tradition from extra- biblical writings and oral history. "So deep was this belief ingrained in our common humanity that it was accepted by the Jews, and in at least a shadowy way by the pagans, long before the coming of Christianity" (CE). It seems incomprehensible that Rome would admit to using a pagan tradition for the defense of one of its most esteemed "Christian" doctrines.
The Deception of Purgatory
Purgatory comes from the Latin word “purgare,” which means to make clean or to purify. The Catholic Encyclopedia defines purgatory as "a place or condition of temporal punishment for those who, departing this life in God’s grace, are not entirely free from venial faults, or have not fully paid the satisfaction due to their transgressions." They must be purified of these "venial" sins before they can be allowed into heaven. Here we see Catholicism perpetuating the seductive lie of Satan by declaring "you will not surely die" when you commit venial sins (Gen. 3:4). The Council of Trent dares to declare that "God does not always remit the whole punishment due to sin together with the guilt. God requires satisfaction and will punish sin...The sinner, failing to do penance in this life, may be punished in another world, and so not be cast off eternally from God." (Session 15, Can. XI). Those Catholic Bishops had the audacity to declare that the suffering and death of God's perfect man and man's perfect substitute was not sufficient to satisfy divine justice for sin.
The Motivation for Purgatory
Over the centuries billions of dollars have been paid to Roman Catholic priests to obtain relief from imaginary sufferings in Purgatory's fire. The Catholic clergy has always taught that the period of suffering in Purgatory can be shortened by purchasing indulgences and novenas, buying Mass cards and providing gifts of money. When a Catholic dies, money is extracted from mourning loved ones to shorten the deceased's punishment in Purgatory. When my dear old dad passed away as a devout Catholic of 79 years, I was amazed at the hundreds of Mass cards purchased for him by well-meaning friends. We have heard of other Catholics who have willed their entire estates to their religion so that perpetual masses could be offered for them after they die. It is no wonder that the Catholic religion has become the richest institution in the world. The buying and selling of God's grace has been a very lucrative business for the Vatican.
Another motivation for Rome to fabricate the heretical doctrine of Purgatory is its powerful effect on controlling people. Ultimately, the enslavement and subjugation of people is the goal of every false religion, and Purgatory does exactly that. The concept of a terrifying prison with a purging fire, governed by religious leaders, is a most brilliant invention. It holds people captive, not only in this life but also in the next life. Catholic clergy will not say how many years people have to suffer for their sins or how many Masses must be purchased before they can be released from the flames. This dreadful fear and uncertainty is the most ruthless form of religious bondage and deception!
Another motivation for Rome to fabricate the heretical doctrine of Purgatory is its powerful effect on controlling people. Ultimately, the enslavement and subjugation of people is the goal of every false religion, and Purgatory does exactly that. The concept of a terrifying prison with a purging fire, governed by religious leaders, is a most brilliant invention. It holds people captive, not only in this life but also in the next life. Catholic clergy will not say how many years people have to suffer for their sins or how many Masses must be purchased before they can be released from the flames. This dreadful fear and uncertainty is the most ruthless form of religious bondage and deception!
Another motivation for Rome to fabricate the heretical doctrine of Purgatory is its powerful effect on controlling people. Ultimately, the enslavement and subjugation of people is the goal of every false religion, and Purgatory does exactly that. The concept of a terrifying prison with a purging fire, governed by religious leaders, is a most brilliant invention. It holds people captive, not only in this life but also in the next life. Catholic clergy will not say how many years people have to suffer for their sins or how many Masses must be purchased before they can be released from the flames. This dreadful fear and uncertainty is the most ruthless form of religious bondage and deception!
Biblical Support for Purgatory
There is absolutely none! In fact, neither the word nor the concept of sin-purifying fire is found in Scripture. The Vatican was confronted with this in the 16th century when the Reformers protested its practice of buying and selling of God's grace through indulgences. Backed into a corner, the Council of Trent added the apocryphal books to its canon of Scripture. Rome now declares there is scriptural support for purgatory in the apocryphal book of Second Maccabees. The council ignored the fact that the Jewish scribes never recognized the apocryphal books as inspired or part of the Hebrew Scriptures. They were never included because of their many historical, theological and geographical errors. Since God is not the author of error, He obviously did not inspire the writers of the Apocrypha. This is why the Apocrypha was never included in the original canon of 66 books. ..........."
The Biblical Rebuke of Purgatory
God's Word leaves absolutely no possibility for sin to be purged away by anything other than the blood of Jesus Christ. The beloved apostle John penned these words with irrefutable clarity. He wrote, "The blood of Jesus His Son cleanses us from all sin" and "all unrighteousness" (1 John 1:7, 9). John did not say "some" sins or "most" sins, but all sin! This soundly rebukes the need for a sin-purging fire. God's Word also declares, "All things are cleansed with blood, and without shedding of blood there is no forgiveness" (Heb. 9:22). When Jesus "made purification of sins, He sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high" (Heb. 1:3). Those who desire to have their sins purged need to trust a person, not a place. The blood of Christ is the only cleansing agent for sin! Those who come to the cross of Christ must come with empty hands of faith, bringing nothing but their sins.
Every blood-bought believer is instantly present with their Redeemer at the moment of death. To be "absent from the body" is to be "at home with the Lord" (2 Cor. 5:6-8). This good news was affirmed by the Lord Jesus with the promise He gave to the repentant thief at Calvary. He said to him, "Truly I say to you, today you shall be with Me in Paradise" (Luke 23:43). This habitual sinner did not need a fire to purge his sins.
Catholics who believe in Purgatory need to be asked: "Who is in charge of releasing souls from the purging fire?" It cannot be God because of His promise to believers. "Their sins and iniquities I will remember no more" (Heb. 10:17). After conversion, God no longer counts sins against His children (2 Cor. 5:19).
Purgatory is a travesty on the justice of God and a disgraceful fabrication that robs Christ Jesus of His glory and honor. He alone satisfied divine justice, once and for all, by the perfect and finished sacrifice of Himself. The fatal deception of Purgatory blinds Catholics from the glorious Gospel of grace. It is one of Satan's many lies which keep his captives from knowing and trusting the sufficiency of Jesus Christ. It is Christ alone that will present us "faultless before the presence of his glory" (Jude 24).
More to your specific point: if you will not debate those who have “rejected the Word”, can you explain to me HOW you decided that we “rejected the word”? Unless you have reasons, then you’re simply using your raw opinions and “feelings” in place of facts... and that simply won’t do, dear fellow.
Also interesting in the same thread: "What about babies in limbo?" was a question asked. THe answer: In 2005, a Vatican appointed group of international theologians, led by (then) Cardinal Ratzinger, closed the doors of limbo forever. There is a link provided: "closing the doors of limbo: Theologians say is was hypothesis."
Limbo was an "hypothesis"? What about the poor people who "prayed" their loved ones out of the now hypothetical limbo? They based their faith on an hypothesis?...? But it's okay, I guess, that group of of "international theologians", led by the CURRENT Pope just closed the doors forever. How does one close the doors forever on an hypothesis?
I’m not sure where you’re going with this, but yes I do, I was simply positing that the Lord God Jesus told his companion on the cross, after he’d told the other thief that he should show some respect because they were with the deity, “today you will be with me in paradise”. That’s all I need to know. It makes the rest of the Gospel ring true. In fact it gives the lie to the doctrine of purgatory. The thief believed, that’s all that’s required to wipe away your sins. Do you seriously read the gospel and think that in any way it requires something of your doing to achieve salvation? Of course it doesn’t, if it did you’d play a part in saving yourself and you cannot. It’s all God.
The money raising efforts of the purgatory nonsense are just man being man. A few more golden vessels for the clergy. It was just nonsense and completely a money making effort on behalf of the biggest industry in midevial europe. Total nonsense all of it.
Is this book written to you ? Have you ever read and comprehended James 1:1 ??
shalom b'SHEM Yah'shua HaMashiach
***Oh, look: God is a “consuming fire,” when you draw close to him your sins are burned away. Latin theologians called this “purgatory”.***
Yep! Just like this!
Isa 6:5 Then said I, Woe [is] me! for I am undone; because I [am] a man of unclean lips, and I dwell in the midst of a people of unclean lips: for mine eyes have seen the King, the LORD of hosts.
Isa 6:6 ¶ Then flew one of the seraphims unto me, having a live coal in his hand, [which] he had taken with the tongs from off the altar:
Isa 6:7 And he laid [it] upon my mouth, and said, Lo, this hath touched thy lips; and thine iniquity is taken away, and thy sin PURGED.
What can wash away my sins,
Nothing but the blood of Jesus...
BTW: good tag-line! :)
Yep, I agree, great tag-line! :-D
Like the centurion you don't care what processes or steps must be taken for Jesus' will to be implemented. Me too. There are things we assume to be done. One of those is a final purification.
According to John even Enoch and Elisha are not in the realm of heaven were Christ came from. Paul speaks of several heavens he was taken to the 3rd heaven but could not talk of the wonderful things he saw.
Caps were used in "WORD OF GOD" you object? Or is it the Word of the church instead I should use to satisfy some ancient tradition?
The WORD OF GOD has never been dependent upon man. The Word existed before Moses and existed before Adam. GOD knew our poverty as Isaiah and Isaiah in chapter 53 {writings written long before the RCC} knew GOD had a plan of salvation for mans salvation that was not dependent on man but Christ alone.
Not one word of man needing additional rituals or purification are in those passages. Christ intercedes for us we need not too ask favor of any other beings on this earth or in heaven for our salvation nor entrance too heaven. We die and our spirit being is with The Lord that very instant and our tired cursed bodies of the flesh return to dust.
:)
First and foremost is the evidence of Scripture. John 3:15-18 says about Christ: “The Son of Man must be lifted up, that everyone who believes in him may have eternal life. For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son.”
The salvation in Christ is not temporary, it is eternal.
In John 10:28-30, Jesus says: “I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one can snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Father’s hand. I and the Father are one.” The forgiveness of God through Christ is sufficient to cover all of our sins — past, present, and future. There is nothing a person can do that God cannot forgive. This doctrine is supported by Romans 8:38-39, Ephesians 4:30, and Jude 24, among others.
Once Saved, Always Saved – The Logical Evidence
As with many other scriptural doctrines, the idea of “once saved, always saved” is also supported logically. Eternal security is consistent with everything else the Bible teaches about mankind, and God. Examining the doctrine in relation to the rest of Scripture demonstrates that it is consistent with all other biblically sound teachings. The idea of losing our salvation is not only unscriptural, but it creates monumental problems with other doctrines, including salvation by faith, the sin nature of man, and the purpose of Christ’s sacrifice.
The Bible teaches that man is inherently sinful — that a sinful nature is a part of all of us (Romans 3:10). This means that even after being saved, every single believer is going to sin from time to time. Thinking that we can live a perfect, sinless life after our salvation is not only unscriptural, but arrogant (James 2:10). If we are not eternally secure, this sinning will cause us to lose our salvation, but how much sin is too much? There is no scriptural “yardstick” given to tell us how many or what kind of sins are enough to void our salvation. Without eternal security, the Bible would describe a situation where Christianity is a perpetual game of Russian Roulette; a life in which condemnation and salvation alternate every time we sin and confess, and we never know if we’re saved or not.
Certainly. I also read and comprehended Romans 1:1 (which was written to the Romans, and not to you or me), and so forth; but unless you’re suggesting that God placed the letter of St. James in the Bible for no reason relevant to Salvation (and I do wonder at your audacity at picking and choosing which books are expendable, if so!), or that Jesus was speaking ONLY to Nicodemus when He spoke the words of John 3:16, then I’m afraid you’ll have to admit that the entirety of the Bible is meant for us... including James 2:24, friend. When Holy Scripture makes a statement of fact, it is meant to be taken as such, and not simply as a provincial detail of Palestinian history.
If you refer to the Roman Catholic Church -- no thanks. Never was and never will be Roman Catholic.
I am, however, a member of the Body of Christ and have been for some time due to God's grace, through faith alone. Through Christ's shed blood, death and resurrection. The Roman Catholic Church has NOTHING to do with salvation -- neither does any other man-made edifice.
I pray for your conversion.
No need; God took care of that already. However, I will pray for yours.
Hoss
***BTW, where did you get that Bible you’re so proud of? Look to Rome.****
Rome? More like Jerusalem, Constantinople and Alexandria. I don’t believe any of the writers wrote their God inspired letters and books in Latin.
A good skill to develop is to read all Paul was writing to the Messianic
shalom b'SHEM Yah'shua HaMashiach
believers in the city of Rome.
the words and read them in context.
(Pardon the delay in my reply... I’m off to bed. I’ll try to get a reply to you tomorrow; I don’t mean to neglect it!)
Amen!
TO THE TWELVE TRIBES which are scattered abroad.
Just like Hebrews. WHO was it written to? THE HEBREWS.
Sometimes I feel compelled to just say "DUH".
1st and 2nd Peter. WHO were they written to? Those in the LAST DAYS. John. Who were they written to? Those contending for the original faith that was delivered unto them. The last days. Jude: Same thing. And Revelation: Obviously those in the last days.
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