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To: smvoice
"Our prayers are shortening this horrible suffering of being without God", according to the article. So purgatory is a place of suffering, not a not-so-bad rest stop on the way to heaven?

Pardon me, but: where did you get the somewhat caricature-ridden idea that Purgatory was some sort of pleasant "rest-stop"? I assure you, the teachings of the Catholic Church did not give you that idea. I'd also ask you to take your information from a more authoritative source (such as the Catechism of the Catholic Church); an article, no matter how well-written or well-meant, can contain incidental (or worse) errors or ambiguities of the author.

The article also states that "But we (the Church) are given this great power and privilege to release souls from Purgatory. Only we are the deliverers. Christ turns to the Church Militant. We're responsible to pray for the dead." SO, this obviously means that the only way souls are released from "this horrible suffering" is through praying for the dead.

No. Purgatory, by its very nature (i.e. "purifying fires"), makes a soul fit for Heaven... though we who pray for the Holy Souls in Purgatory can (through the merits of Christ) speed their way by our prayers, penances and sacrifices for their sakes. It is in keeping with the dignity of man, created in the image and likeness of God, that man should not be idle in the work of his own sanctification (i.e. "work out your salvation with fear and trembling" [cf. Philippians 2:12ff], etc.). We're not meant to twiddle our thumbs, while God does every last thing for us; we are sons, not rocks or puppets.

The Church is the deliverer of those souls to heaven. Not Christ.

(??) Where on earth do you get that idea? That's akin to saying, "The Hand of the Lord saved us [cf. Isaiah 59:1, etc.], not the Lord, Himself." Surely you know that the Church is the very Body of Christ? Do you claim that Christ can save, but only without His Body?

Also interesting in the same thread: "What about babies in limbo?" was a question asked. THe answer: In 2005, a Vatican appointed group of international theologians, led by (then) Cardinal Ratzinger, closed the doors of limbo forever. There is a link provided: "closing the doors of limbo: Theologians say is was hypothesis."

That is accurate.

Limbo was an "hypothesis"?

Yes. It was a reasonable one, given the difficulties between "necessity of Baptism for salvation" and "innocent baby dying without Baptism", and such... but it was merely a theory.

What about the poor people who "prayed" their loved ones out of the now hypothetical limbo?

Pardon me, but: you're getting a few things rather muddled. In the old theory of Limbo, unbaptized infants (and those in similar states, such as the feeble-minded who were unbaptized, but who had never committed sin) were PERMANENTLY sent to Limbo (whose nature was the topic of much speculation). There was no question of "praying anyone out of Limbo"; that is proper to Purgatory, not Limbo.

How does one close the doors forever on an hypothesis?

By declaring it to be wrong and/or untenable... somewhat like the "phlogistin" theory of combustion, or the Ptolemaic Theory of Heavenly Motion. I fail to see the difficulty, here; can you explain?


109 posted on 10/29/2011 7:10:49 PM PDT by paladinan (Rule #1: There is a God. Rule #2: It isn't you.)
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To: paladinan

I told you the name of the Thread. Go there and read it yourself. I didn’t write it. A Expert in Purgatory, or some such person wrote it. Your argument is with them, not me.


121 posted on 10/29/2011 7:25:19 PM PDT by smvoice (The Cross was NOT God's Plan B.)
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