Letter from Heber C. Kimball on the Early Lancashire work dated 2 Sep 1837 [LDS Demon possession]

Mormon History.org ^

[aMorePerfectUnion]

“If you are trying to make fun of my Church because we believe that the devil is real, have at it, but we are in good company.”

Good point. Devil’s religion, LDS, has lots of demonic company.

[Tennessee Nana]

Hmmmmmmmmmmmm

Having to curse at me to make a point...

Is that what you were taught in priesthood class ???

Curse at other Americans who disagree with you ???

[Tennessee Nana]

I wish you guys would stop stating what you THINK we believe. You are wrong. Satan is the father of lies.
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Then your Mormon jesus is the uncle of a liar ...

[Tennessee Nana]

I wish you guys would stop stating what you THINK we believe.
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Oh I doubt if we will ever have to come to that...

Theres some much that mormons do believe that is so well documented...

We have now been at this for years...

I doubt if we will run out...

Joey Smith, Briggie Young and your other mormon leaders were busy boys with the fairy tales and drug and booze induced imaginings..

[Tennessee Nana]

Graybeard58: Sin has consequences.

UnbelievingScumOnTheOtherSide: Yep. And Joseph Smith was killed and a number of others and the rest whipped off to Utah.
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the mormon god drove the mormons out of OH MO because of their sins

D&C 98:18-19: “Behold...am not well pleased with many who are in the church at Kirtland; For they do not forsake their sins, and their wicked ways, the pride of their hearts, and their covetousness, and all their detestable things...”

D&C 50:4 — what Smith told the LDS church at Kirtland in May, 1831: “Behold...have looked upon you, and have seen abominations in the church that profess my name...”
“...the inhabitants of Zion are terrible...” (D&C 45:70)

Also, Smith said that the affliction, persecution and being cast out of the land of inheritance (D&C 101:1)

was because God “suffered the affliction to come upon them, wherewith they have been afflicted, in consequence of their transgressions...” (D&C 101:2)

[Tennessee Nana]

Graybeard58: Sin has consequences.

UnbelievingScumOnTheOtherSide: Yep. And Joseph Smith was killed and a number of others and the rest whipped off to Utah.
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1. in May 1844 Joey Smith boasted that he was greater than The LORD Jesus Christ

1 month later in June 1844 The LORD Jesus Christ showed joey Smith he was wrong. Jesus destroyed the liar Joey Smith...

2. Nobody was “whipped off to Utah”

Joey Smith had already wanted the Mormons to move to Mexico or Utah Territory which was in Mexico.

3 It was about 2 years after Joey Smith got himself killed in that jail break shoot out in which he murdered 2 men that the Mormons finally moved of their own accord to Utah to get away from the laws of America so that they could practice polygamy/adultry and have their own theocratic dictatorship ruled over by King-for-life Brigham Young

4. They finished their Mormon temple in Nauvoo and then SOLD it to the local Catholics...

5. Nothing was destroyed or stolen from the Mormons and the ones who stayed in Nauvoo were not molested in any way but continued to live peaceful lives...

6. the same as the Mormons who had stayed on in Missouri...

7. or anywhere else, New York, Kirkland, etc

[Tennessee Nana]

Courtesy PING to Posts # 25 and 26

[Colofornian]

Also, Smith said that the affliction, persecution and being cast out of the land of inheritance (D&C 101:1)was because God “suffered the affliction to come upon them, wherewith they have been afflicted, in consequence of their transgressions...” (D&C 101:2)

Yes, this is the key passage.

D&C 98:18-19: “Behold...am not well pleased with many who are in the church at Kirtland; For they do not forsake their sins, and their wicked ways, the pride of their hearts, and their covetousness, and all their detestable things...” (Yes, tho this is actually vv. 19-20)

[Colofornian]

And Solomon had 300 wives and 700 concubines.

Yup...I've read an author or two who's wondered about his salvation...

Mary was given to Joseph at age 12. (according to the Protoevangelium of James)

And? (Hosea was told to take a prostitute-wife who kept her cottage industry going post-marriage...And...One of the prophets walked around naked...And...)

These are “role models”. (of what not to do as well as what to do)

OK...

[Tennessee Nana]

Thanks I’ll correct that in my files...

[Colofornian]

The problem is Sandy that Mormons dont believe devils are EVIL [TN, #8]

There you go again. I have no idea what the heck you are talking about. I wish you guys would stop stating what you THINK we believe. You are wrong [SD, #18]

Well, I would add a "qualifier" to what TN was saying: I would say that Mormons don't seemingly show that devils are consistently evil...

Allow me to give a few examples:

(1) When the snake tempted Eve in the garden about eating of the fruit, I've seen Mormon writers split both ways: Some thought the fall was a horrible thing; others a great thing -- something to be celebrated...'cause they say both parenthood and eventual godhood would not have occurred if Eve had not obeyed Satan.

Therefore, these Mormons give more kudos to Eve obeying Satan than God!

#2 Would be Isaiah 14, where Lucifer says he will make himself "like the most high." (Mormons thinking they become gods are following in Lucifer's steps there!)

[Tennessee Nana]

Lds apostle Dallin Oaks wrote: “Some Christians condemn Eve for her act, concluding that she and her daughters are somehow flawed by it. Not the Latter-day Saints! Informed by revelation, we celebrate Eve’s act and honor her with wisdom and courage in the great episode called the Fall.” (”The Choice that Began Mortality” Liahona, 2002)

Joseph Fielding Smith also said that “the fall of man came as a blessing in disguise, ... I never speak of the part Eve took in this fall as a sin, nor do I accuse Adam of a sin.... it is not always a sin to transgress a law” (Doctrines of Salvation, vol. 1, pp. 114-15).

Sterling W. Sill, a member of the First Quorum of Seventy, made the same point in colorful language:

This old sectarian doctrine, built around the idea of man’s natural depravity and weakness inherited from Adam, is at the root of innumerable problems among us. Adam was one of the greatest men who has ever lived upon the earth....

Under Christ Adam yet stands at our head.... Adam fell, but he fell in the right direction. He fell toward the goal....

Adam fell, but he fell upward. Jesus says to us, “Come up higher” (Deseret News, Church Section, July 31, 1965, p. 7).

[Colofornian]

I love it! Just like right out of the Bible!! ...when I used to be a member of the Pentecostal Church of God, this kind of thing was an every-day occurrence. In fact, one time a young woman fell to the floor writhing in pain and agony as an evil spirit left her.

Yes, demon possession is in the Bible...just like "Elder Russell" the Mormon missionary was showing definitive signs of demon possession. (Nice of you to confess for us all that at least this Mormon missionary was demon possessed)

[Elsie]

If you are trying to make fun of my Church because we believe that the devil is real, have at it, but we are in good company.

No; Saundra; we are PRAYING for your church; because the DEVIL founded it.

Folks can read it right here:

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KJV

Galatians 1:6-9

6. I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:
7. Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.
8. But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
9. As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

ANYBODY???

Like this fine looking fellow???

2 Corinthians 11:12-15

12. But what I do, that I will do, that I may cut off occasion from them which desire occasion; that wherein they glory, they may be found even as we.
13. For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.
14. And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.
15. Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.

Like THESE guys??

http://scriptures.lds.org/en/js_h/1/19#19

17 It no sooner appeared than I found myself delivered from the enemy which held me bound. When the light rested upon me I saw two Personages, whose brightness and glory defy all description, standing above me in the air. One of them spake unto me, calling me by name and said, pointing to the other—This is My Beloved Son. Hear Him!

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Ephesians 2:1-2

1. And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins; wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:

[Elsie]

Why do you use it against Mormonism?

Because MORMONism is; by DEFINITION; PERFECT!

[Elsie]

Can you back this claim about why Mormons love devils up from LDS scripture?

The two MORMON 'personages' are the very description 'devils'; demons; Angels of Light.

There is no MORMON here that would say they DON'T love them!

[Elsie]

Yep. And Joseph Smith was killed and a number of others and the rest whipped off to Utah.

Only the FEARFUL ones.

A vast bunch stayed behind and acquired ALL the MORMON property and prospered.

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(Kinda makes the CLAIM that the State of Missouri was out to KILL all the MORMONs a bit hollow sounding; doesn't it.)

[Elsie]

I wish you guys would stop stating what you THINK we believe.

Ok...

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"He (Joseph Smith) is the man through whom God has spoken... yet I would not like to call him a savior, though in a certain capacity he was a god to us, and is to the nations of the earth, and will continue to be."

 - Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses 8:321

 

 

"You call us fools; but the day will be, gentlemen and ladies, whether you belong to this Church or not, when you will prize brother Joseph Smith as the Prophet of the Living God, and look upon him as a god..."

- Herber C. Kimball, Journal of Discourses 5:88

 

 

"If we get our salvation, we shall have to pass by him [Joseph Smith]; if we enter our glory, it will be through the authority he has received. We cannot get around him [Joseph Smith]"

- (as quoted in 1988 Melchizedek Priesthood Study Guide, p. 142)

 

 

There is "no salvation without accepting Joseph Smith. If Joseph Smith was verily a prophet, and if he told the truth...no man can reject that testimony without incurring the most dreadful consequences, for he cannot enter the kingdom of God"

- Joseph Fielding Smith, Doctrines of Salvation, vol. 1, p.190

 

 

"I tell you, Joseph holds the keys, and none of us can get into the celestial kingdom without passing by him. We have not got rid of him, but he stands there as the sentinel, holding the keys of the kingdom of God; and there are many of them beside him. I tell you, if we get past those who have mingled with us, and know us best, and have a right to know us best, probably we can pass all other sentinels as far as it is necessary, or as far as we may desire. But I tell you, the pinch will be with those that have mingled with us, stood next to us, weighed our spirits, tried us, and proven us: there will be a pinch, in my view, to get past them. The others, perhaps, will say, If brother Joseph is satisfied with you, you may pass. If it is all right with him, it is all right with me. Then if Joseph shall say to a man, or if brother Brigham say to a man, I forgive you your sins, "Whosoever sins ye remit they are remitted unto them;" if you who have suffered and felt the weight of transgression—if you have generosity enough to forgive the sinner, I will forgive him: you cannot have more generosity than I have. I have given you power to forgive sins, and when the Lord gives a gift, he does not take it back again."

 - Orson Hyde, Journal of Discourses, Vol. 6, p.154-155

 

 

 

"It is because the Lord called Joseph Smith that salvation is again available to mortal men.... If it had not been for Joseph Smith and the restoration, there would be no salvation,"

 - Bruce McConkie, Mormon Doctrine, p. 396, 670

 

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They succeeded in killing Joseph, but he had finished his work.

He was a servant of God, and gave us the Book of Mormon.

He said the Bible was right in the main, but, through the translators and others, many precious portions were suppressed, and several other portions were wrongly translated; and now his testimony is in force, for he has sealed it with his blood.

As I have frequently told them, no man in this dispensation will enter the courts of heaven, without the approbation of the Prophet Joseph Smith, Jun.

Who has made this so?

Have I?

Have this people?

Have the world?

No; but the Lord Jehovah has decreed it.

If I ever pass into the heavenly courts, it will be by the consent of the Prophet Joseph.

If you ever pass through the gates into the Holy City, you will do so upon his certificate that you are worthy to pass.

Can you pass without his inspection?

No; neither can any person in this dispensation, which is the dispensation of the fulness of times.

In this generation, and in all the generations that are to come, everyone will have to undergo the scrutiny of this Prophet.

They say that they killed Joseph, and they will yet come with their hats under their arms and bend to him; but what good will it do them, unless they repent?

They can come in a certain way and find favor, but will they?

 Brigham Young,

--JOURNAL OF DISCOURSES, vol. 8, p. 224

[Elsie]

Theres some much that mormons do believe that is so well documented...

Here ya go!! (I don't know why Sandy just POST this stuff and not WHINE so much!)

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Here is MORMONism's own creed:

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Articles of Faith

The Articles of Faith outline 13 basic points of belief of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.
The Prophet Joseph Smith first wrote them in a letter to John Wentworth, a newspaper editor,
in response to Mr. Wentworth's request to know what members of the Church believed.
They were subsequently published in Church periodicals.
They are now regarded as scripture and included in the Pearl of Great Price.

 

THE ARTICLES OF FAITH
OF THE CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST OF LATTER-DAY SAINTS
History of the Church, Vol. 4, pp. 535—541

 

 

1. We believe in God, the Eternal Father, and in His Son, Jesus Christ, and in the Holy Ghost.
   
2. We believe that men will be punished for their own sins, and not for Adam's transgression.
   
3. We believe that through the Atonement of Christ, all mankind may be saved, by obedience to the laws and ordinances of the Gospel.
   
4. We believe that the first principles and ordinances of the Gospel are: first, Faith in the Lord Jesus Christ; second, Repentance; third, Baptism by immersion for the remission of sins; fourth, Laying on of hands for the gift of the Holy Ghost.
   
5. We believe that a man must be called of God, by prophecy, and by the laying on of hands by those who are in authority, to preach the Gospel and administer in the ordinances thereof.
   
6. We believe in the same organization that existed in the Primitive Church, namely, apostles, prophets, pastors, teachers, evangelists, and so forth.
   
7. We believe in the gift of tongues, prophecy, revelation, visions, healing, interpretation of tongues, and so forth.
   
8. We believe the Bible to be the word of God as far as it is translated correctly; we also believe the Book of Mormon to be the word of God.
   
9. We believe all that God has revealed, all that He does now reveal, and we believe that He will yet reveal many great and important things pertaining to the Kingdom of God.
   
10. We believe in the literal gathering of Israel and in the restoration of the Ten Tribes; that Zion (the New Jerusalem) will be built upon the American continent; that Christ will reign personally upon the earth; and, that the earth will be renewed and receive its paradisiacal glory.
    
11. We claim the privilege of worshiping Almighty God according to the dictates of our own conscience, and allow all men the same privilege, let them worship how, where, or what they may.
    
12. We believe in being subject to kings, presidents, rulers, and magistrates, in obeying, honoring, and sustaining the law.
    
13. We believe in being honest, true, chaste, benevolent, virtuous, and in doing good to all men; indeed, we may say that we follow the admonition of Paul—We believe all things, we hope all things, we have endured many things, and hope to be able to endure all things. If there is anything virtuous, lovely, or of good report or praiseworthy, we seek after these things.

Joseph Smith

 

[teppe]

Elsie .... The two “Mormon” personages you are talking about I assume are God the Father and the Son Jesus Christ?

All I can say is your ability to identify a position with honesty and integrity and back it up with substantive argument is very discouraging.

Please let me know where you got your education, so that I can make sure that my Children stay as far away from that sorry institution as possible.