ERROR?
These are “role models”. (of what not to do as well as what to do)
IMO your post #4 was a sarcastic denigration of Christian belief in an attempt to shine up the "errors" of mormonism.
Posted on 10/29/2011 7:39:58 AM PDT by Colofornian
...A singular circumstance occurred before morning, which I will quote from Brother Hyde's journal, as he wrote it down. He commences as follows: "Elder [Isaac] Russell was much troubled with evil spirits and came into the room where Elder [Heber C.] Kimball and myself were sleeping and desired us to lay our hands on him and rebuke the evil spirit. I arose upon the bed and Brother Kimball got upon the floor and I sat upon the bed. We laid our hands on him and Brother Kimball rebuked and prayed for him but just before he had finished his prayer, his voice faltered and his mouth was shut and he began to tremble and reel to and fro and fell on the floor like a dead man, and uttered a deep groan. I immediately seized him by the shoulder and lifted him up, being satisfied that the devils were exceeding angry because we attempted to cast them out of Brother Russel and they made a powerful attempt upon Elder Kimball as if to dispatch him at once. They struck him senseless and he fell to the floor. Brother Russel and myself then laid our hands on Elder Kimball and rebuked the evil spirits, in the name of Jesus Christ, and immediately he recovered his strength in part so as to get up. The sweat began to roll from him most powerfully and he was almost as wet as if he had been taken out of the water. We could very sensibly hear the evil spirits rage and foam out their shame. Brother Kimball was quite weak for a day or two after. It seems that the devils are determined to destroy us...
(Excerpt) Read more at mormonhistory.org ...
Lds "apostle" Orson Hyde was also present. Hyde DID give up his wife to Smith when Smith asked for her.
From the excerpt: "Elder [Isaac] Russell was much troubled with evil spirits...his voice faltered and his mouth was shut and he began to tremble and reel to and fro and fell on the floor like a dead man, and uttered a deep groan...they made a powerful attempt upon Elder Kimball as if to dispatch him at once. They struck him senseless and he fell to the floor...The sweat began to roll from him most powerfully and he was almost as wet as if he had been taken out of the water. We could very sensibly hear the evil spirits rage and foam out their shame. Brother Kimball was quite weak for a day or two after.
Seems both Elders Russell and Kimball were demon-possessed.
What do you think Mormon general authorities think of men who are overcome by demons?
Lds "apostle" Bruce R. McConkie: "That persons possessed by evil spirits are subjected to the severest mental and physical sufferings and to the basest sort of degredation [sic] -- all symbolical of the eternal torment to be imposed upon those who fall under Satan's control in the world to come" (McConkie, p. 311 Doctrinal NT Commentary, Vol. I: The Gospels Bookcraft)
Hmm...that's interesting. McConkie essentially assigns these Mormon missionaries to eternal torment.
And: "Evil spirits can completely transform a personal physically and mentally." (same source, p. 312)
McConkie took his cue from an Lds "prophet" -- Joseph F. Smith: “It is outrageous to believe that the devil can hurt or injure an innocent man or woman, especially if they are members of the [LDS] Church of Christ, without that man or woman has faith that he or she can be harmed by such an influence and by such means.” (Lds “prophet” Joseph F. Smith, Sept. 1902, 37:560-63, Gospel Doctrine, 2:147)
Smith, who was Joseph Smith's nephew, is implying that these Lds missionaries lacked "faith."
In case you think Smith was just "mouthing" off opinion not highly regarded by the current generation of Mormon leaders, think again. For one thing, Smith's Gospel Doctrine book was published in '71 by the First Presidency...the highest-ranking Mormons. Secondly, in '96, Joseph F. Smith’s Gospel Doctrine book was again officially sanctioned from the official Salt Lake City church publishing division in its book, Our Heritage: A Brief History of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. P. 106 of the book: ”When Lorenzo Snow died in October, 1901, Joseph F. Smith became the sixth President of the Church. He was well known for his ability to expound and defend gospel truths. His sermons and writings were compiled into a volume titled Gospel Doctrine, which has become one of the important doctrinal texts of the Church.”
You can find that electronically here: Our Heritage
Heber C. Kimball recalled:
“Sunday, July 30th, about daybreak, Elder Isaac Russell….came up to the third story, where Elder Hyde and myself were sleeping, and called out, ‘Brother Kimball, I want you should get up and pray for me that I may be delivered from the evil spirits that are tormenting me to such a degree that I feel I cannot live long, unless I obtain relief.”
“I had been sleeping on the back of the bed. I immediately arose, slipped off at the foot of the bed, and passed around to where he was. Elder Hyde threw his feet out, and sat up in the bed, and we laid hands on him, I being mouth, and prayed that the Lord would have mercy on him, and rebuked the devil. While thus engaged, I was struck with great force by some invisible power, and fell senseless on the floor. (Whitney p. 129-131)
Orson Hyde observed this same moment in his account:
“his [Heber's] voice faltered, and his mouth was shut, and he began to tremble and reel to and fro, and fell on the floor like a dead man, and uttered a deep groan. I immediately seized him by the shoulder, and lifted him up, being satisfied that the devils were exceedingly angry because we attempted to cast them out of Br. Russell, and they made a powerful attempt upon elder Kimball as if to dispatch him at once, they struck him senseless and he fell to the floor… (Elder's p. 4)
Heber continued...
The first thing I recollected was being supported by Elders Hyde and Richards, who were praying for me; Elder Richards having followed Russell up to my room. Elder Hyde and Richards then assisted me to get on the bed, but my agony was so great I could not endure it, and I arose, bowed my knees and prayed. I then arose and sat up on the bed, when a vision was opened to our minds, and we could distinctly see the evil spirits, who foamed and gnashed their teeth at us. (Whitney p. 130-131)
Years later (1856) Heber told a congregation in the Salt Lake Tabernacle,
“I saw their hands, their eyes, and every feature of their faces, the hair on their heads, and their ears, in short they had full formed bodies.“ (Journal of Discourses Vol. 3 mar 2, 1856, p. 229)
Heber's account continued:
We gazed upon them about an hour and a half (by Willard’s watch). We were not looking towards the window, but towards the wall. Space appeared before us, and we saw the devils coming in legions, with their leaders, who came within a few feet of us. They came towards us like armies rushing to battle They appeared to be men of full stature, possessing every form and feature of men in the flesh, who were angry and desperate; and I (Kimball) shall never forget the vindictive malignity depicted on their countenances as they looked me in the eye; and any attempt to paint the scene which then presented itself, or portray their malice and enmity, would be vain. I perspired exceedingly, my clothes becoming as wet as if I had been taken out of the river. I felt excessive pain, and was in the greatest distress for sometime. (Whitney p. 130-131)
ORSON: Immediately he [Heber] recovered his strength in part, so as to get up; the sweat began to roll from him most powerfully, and he was almost as wet as if he had been taken out of the water,
(Elder’s p.4)
HEBER: We distinctly heard those spirits talk and express their wrath and hellish designs against us.
(Whitney p. 130-131)
ORSON: We could very sensibly hear the evil spirits rage and foam out their shame.”
(Elder’s p.4)
FIELDING: They could hear a sound from them, i.e the evil spirits, like the grating of teeth, quite plainly. (Fielding, p.22)
ORSON: …After you were overcome by them and had fallen, their awful rush upon me with knives, threats, imprecations, hellish grins, amply convinced me that they were no friends of mine. While you were apparently senseless and lifeless on the floor and upon the bed (after we had laid you there), I (Orson) stood between you (Heber) and the devils and fought them and contended with them face to face, until they began to diminish in number and to retreat from the room. The last imp that left turned around to me as he was going out and said, as if to apologize, and appease my determined opposition to them, ‘I never said anything against you!’ I replied to him thus: ‘It matters not me whether you have or have not; you are a liar from the beginning! In the name of Jesus Christ depart!’ He immediately left, and the room was clear. That closed the scene of devils for the time. (Whitney 131)
FIELDING: They however kept their distances, but turned their heads toward Bro. Hyde; one looking at him said distinctly, but with a murmuring tone, slowly demure, I never spoke against you. He said there seemed to be legion of them. He was alarmed, but very much disgusted. He could scarcely bear to speak of them. (Fielding, p. 23)
Source: Compiled by Peter Fagg, http://ldsbritain.blogspot.com/2010/02/discovering-lds-preston-satanic-attack.html
Original sources used by Fagg included:
Elder’s Journal, Letter 1 (1837), p.4 Quoted by Barron Howard. Orson Hyde: Missionary, Apostle, Colonizer. Horizon Publishers, Bountiful, Utah. 1978 p.95.
Fielding, Joseph. Joseph Fielding Diary. Courtesy of his descendants Keith & Ilene Foulger.
Kimball., Stanley, B. On the Potter's Wheel, Diary 1.
Journal of Discourses. Volume 3. Liverpool, 1856.
Whitney, Orson F. The Life of Heber C. Kimball. Bookcraft, Utah. 1945.
The "Speaking of ghosts" includes coverage of pix of "ghosts" @ a Salt Lake City hospital and strange phenomenon @ the Mormon Missionary Training Center.
The "Utah Ghosts" mentions the location of the Mountain Meadows Massacre and one Freeper's own experience there @ night...and mentions a Porter Rockwell location. Rockwell was a "bodyguard" for Mormon "prophets" -- a recognized mass murderer.
* The twilight saga [The OTHER World Series...Mormon Vampires]
* Priesthood of Joseph Smith [The OTHER World Series] In this thread, see ^ Mormon leader quotations showing how they concede the devil was confusing them with "revelations." ^ How they encourage visitations from the dead & spirit entities -- while encouraging "personal revelations" from them... ^ See how Mormons define some deceased men as "angels" -- despite the Bible communicating just the opposite. ^ And see what Lds "apostle" Parley Pratt said about communicating with the dead -- and how Joseph Smith was a "medium" in interacting with the dead.
And Solomon had 300 wives and 700 concubines.
David MURDERED Bathsheba’s husband in order to get her.
Mary was given to Joseph at age 12. (according to the Protoevangelium of James)
These are “role models”. (of what not to do as well as what to do)
I love it! Just like right out of the Bible!! Also, when I used to be a member of the Pentecostal Church of God, this kind of thing was an every-day occurrence. In fact, one time a young woman fell to the floor writhing in pain and agony as an evil spirit left her. I saw this with my own eyeballs.
If you are trying to make fun of my Church because we believe that the devil is real, have at it, but we are in good company.
Nice try.
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And Solomon had 300 wives and 700 concubines. David MURDERED Bathsheba’s husband in order to get her. Mary was given to Joseph at age 12. (according to the Protoevangelium of James) These are “role models”. (of what not to do as well as what to do) |
It seems that the devils are determined to destroy us...
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Yeppers
the devils do eventually destroy their owm
If these guts had not been messing on the devils territory the devils could not have got in them and pocessed them...
Lust, adultery, fornication, greed, theft, murder, blasphemy etc that they were practicing in their Mormon religion opened the door to devils...
FReepers keep your lives clean and rebuke the devil in Jesus Name when he comes to tempt you...
Dont give in to him and embrace evil like these fools did...
If you are trying to make fun of my Church because we believe that the devil is real, have at it, but we are in good company.
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Oh we know that Mormons believe devils are real
The problem is Sandy that Mormons dont believe devils are EVIL
Mormons believe devils are here to help them...
I’m not Mormon.
I’m not defending Mormonism.
Some of these things were abhorrent to God at the time and held against Old Testament patriarchs. My point is that even though they did those things, it isn’t held against Christianity or Judaism. Why do you use it against Mormonism?
What did I say that was incorrect?
Mitt Romney is a RINO. I don’t need any more than that to shop for another candidate.
Tenessee Nana
Can you back this claim about why Mormons love devils up from LDS scripture? ....No, you can’t since you have a reality disconnect!
The Pharisees made similar comments and claims about Jesus Christ himself .... I guess birds of a feather flock together afterall!
And Solomon's son lost most of his kingdom because of it.
David MURDERED Bathsheba’s husband in order to get her.
And lost his own child because of it.
Sin has consequences.
Why do you care enough to post anti-Christian material?
It amazes me to see the number of FReepers that are currently defending mormonism and claiming to be non-mormon AND in doing so posting anti-Christian rhetoric.
It smells of Romney supporters flying under the radar.
Can you back this claim about Nana stating that “Mormons love devils” up from any of Nana’s posts ???
Joey Smith and his Mormons made similar comments and claims about Christians .... in that case you would guess right...
just like the Pharisees...
Either identify the error or ban yourself.
“The problem is Sandy that Mormons dont believe devils are EVIL Mormons believe devils are here to help them...”
There you go again. I have no idea what the heck you are talking about. I wish you guys would stop stating what you THINK we believe. You are wrong. Satan is the father of lies.
ERROR?
These are “role models”. (of what not to do as well as what to do)
IMO your post #4 was a sarcastic denigration of Christian belief in an attempt to shine up the "errors" of mormonism.
There’s a reason the word opinion starts with an O.
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